Why bother filtering?

[superbane]

This is an awesome troll account.
Why filter?

So you’re seriously asking why filter? Yet won’t contact a pharma Corp because they are more or less in a clean room?
Why filter?

Yet you ask why filter?

Simple answer is (why filter?)any size contaminants that can be drawn and injected.
Why filter?

BA is not going to stop an infection (why filter?) after injection (why filter?) if you inject an contaminant. Why filter?

Why filter?
We are all idiots (why filter?) and you’re big mad.
Why filter?
Oh and you know who master.on is (why filter?) just off of the fact of how you responded to that insult.
Why filter?
Like I said awesome troll account.
Troll account. Why filter. Filter. Troll. Filter.
Not sterile. Unsterile vial. Why filter?

Seriously why clean? Why sterilize? Why bother to put them in a vial or cap? Why not just leave it brewed in an open container right in the environment maybe the garage and pin out of that?
Head ass.

 

[TownTX]

Dudes going to have a thread soon "my leg infection pls help!"

Not really. I don't intend to inject unfiltered gear. More because i don't want to inject heavy metals from a chinese source.

But this thread wasn't about what i should or shouldn't do. This was meant to be an intelligent discussion on how much difference filtering oil actually makes on the sterility of the end product.

This threads about bacteria, not whether gear should be filtered or not.

Btw i don't care what mindless does, its not my problem.

 

[TownTX]

This is an awesome troll account.
Why filter?

So you’re seriously asking why filter? Yet won’t contact a pharma Corp because they are more or less in a clean room?
Why filter?

Yet you ask why filter?

Simple answer is (why filter?)any size contaminants that can be drawn and injected.
Why filter?

BA is not going to stop an infection (why filter?) after injection (why filter?) if you inject an contaminant. Why filter?

Why filter?
We are all idiots (why filter?) and you’re big mad.
Why filter?
Oh and you know who master.on is (why filter?) just off of the fact of how you responded to that insult.
Why filter?
Like I said awesome troll account.
Troll account. Why filter. Filter. Troll. Filter.
Not sterile. Unsterile vial. Why filter?

Seriously why clean? Why sterilize? Why bother to put them in a vial or cap? Why not just leave it brewed in an open container right in the environment maybe the garage and pin out of that?
Head ass.

Another fucking fool who can't look at the big picture.

This thread WAS NOT ABOUT WHY FILTER!

This thread was about how filtering actually impacts the sterility of the anabolic steroid vial. Understand?

 

[LeoTC]

Sorry guys, my mistake, you're all a bunch of retarded idiots.

I'll take this elsewhere, somewhere that people actually look at the science behind what I'm saying, not the bro science

And for the idiots questioning my knowledge. I've been home brewing for the last 8 years. Never, and i mean NEVER had an infection from my home brew.

I always filter my gear. This post wasn't a should i or shouldn't i filter my gear. It was simply made to answer my question and broaden my understanding. I like to learn, understand and process information.

All i fucking wanted to know was what was killing all the bacteria in the vials. Because it sure wasn't the sterilization and filtering. Because as we have pointed out, even after filtering and sterilizing bottles and stoppers... Our vials are still FULL of bacteria before the oil goes in. Even after sterilization. So my point was, what was killing all that bacteria? If it was the benzyl alcohol then if the benzyl alcohol was a good enough disinfectant to kill numerous air borne bacteria's, then why wouldn't it be good enough to kill all bacteria in an unfiltered vial.

One word in my post answered your question.

Particulates.

Did I expand on that too much initially or what? Kind of hard to say the post isn't about whether or not to filter oil when you flippantly ask, "Why bother?" Stating that you view it as a waste of time.

Chunks of shit floating in gear =/= sterile.

 

[superbane]

Another fucking fool who can't look at the big picture.

This thread WAS NOT ABOUT WHY FILTER!

This thread was about how filtering actually impacts the sterility of the anabolic steroid vial. Understand?

I’d punch your face if you said it in person.
Just for fun.
I see the big picture I answered you baby.
I told you: injection of contaminants. Regardless of the type.
That was a blanket answer and shut the thread down.
Lock and key my dear.
You’re kinda sexy when you type in big caps.
This thread was about retardation.
This thread was about reading comprehension.
This thread was about comp 101.
This thread was about fundamentals.
This thread was about computers computing.
Troll. Feed. Must. Push. Button.

 

[ickyrica]

Filtering impacts it, bigly. Go ahead and inject some non filtered gso, inject 1ml. Report back daily. Assclown.

 

[Grandpa Gainz]

Did i choose the wrong forum for this discussion? Sorry my mistake. I assumed this place actually had knowledgeable members who appreciated intelligent discussion.

Maybe i should take this over to a science forum and get some actual informed opinions on this matter.

I don't have any issue with filtering steroids. Its a simple procedure, but when you look at the facts, it just doesn't make sense.

No, I'm not master.on, whoever the fuck that is.

Maybe you should! I’d rather have a scientist give his opinion than homebrewers who do it the tried and true method! So you can get your panties out of a bunch, I did find the research interesting!

 

[Grandpa Gainz]

Great replies but contacting a pharma company is a waste of time. Because the environment of a pharmaceutical lab is vastly different than that of an UGL. If you read my full posts you will see what i mean. None of these posts answer my actual question. I'm not saying that filtering gear is not necessary in the right settings, to remove particle contamination and to make the finished product sterile. But in the average home brew setup i just don't see how it helps anything in regards to sterilization.

If a pharma company was making 10ml injectable vials. They would be working in an enclosed room. Completely sealed off from outside air. 24 hours a day clean, filtered air would be pumped in to the space and old air pumped out.

This simply does not work in an underground laboratory. Because we sterilize our stoppers in the oven, our vials in the oven then after cooling we put the stopper on the vial. Exposing the vials to over 1800 different forms of bacteria before sealing them.

When buying already sterile vials, say off ebay its a great idea to filter. Assuming the vials have been sterilized correctly with the stoppers already on the vials in an autoclave. But when sterilizing your own vials, i just don't see how filtration helps keep the finished product sterile.

So to conclude, what is the point of filtering steroids, making the liquid sterile, only to inject it into vials that have been exposed to air containing 1800 plus types of bacteria. See my point? Pharma companies don't expose the vials to unfiltered air, that difference makes a huge difference!

All i can think of is that benzyl alcohol basically kills all the bacteria that is in the vials. In the average UGL product.

No I don’t see your point, have you ever looked at unfiltered MCT oil? Just filter your oil. Can never be to safe....

 

[balco]

Your logic is so flawed. What your saying is 'it's already dirty and unsterile so fuck it why even try?'. When home brewing you do your best and take every precaution available to keep it sterile but obviously it's not actually sterile.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

Gotta love when noobs ask for advice, get it, then reject it and start calling everyone retarded. You can't make this shit up.

Okay, Bill Nye. None of the retards here can give you a satisfactory explanation, so brew up some unfiltered gear and test out your hypothesis on yourself.

Let us know how it turns out and if we never get the pleasure of hearing from you again, we'll know that you were the retarded one and didn't have the guts to come back to admit that your idea was horrible.

 

[TownTX]

No I don’t see your point, have you ever looked at unfiltered MCT oil? Just filter your oil. Can never be to safe....

Yes i have, and straight out of the bottle MCT oil contains lots of bacteria. But have you ever looked at filtered oil under a microscope? I have, and it still contains LOTS of bacteria.

People often thing that when they run the oil through a .22um syringe filter, that its now sterile, its not. Plenty and i mean plenty of bacteria passes through the membrane.

So what kills all this bacteria. Is it the BA? Or does our immune system just ward off infection?

Filtering impacts it, bigly. Go ahead and inject some non filtered gso, inject 1ml. Report back daily. Assclown.

If i injected some unfiltered GSO i doubt anything would happen. Look at how many junkies inject heroin and crystal meth. They don't exactly filter it and rarely do they get infections.

But this is aside from the question. I plan to filter my oil.

Maybe you should! I’d rather have a scientist give his opinion than homebrewers who do it the tried and true method! So you can get your panties out of a bunch, I did find the research interesting!

I'm going to try and hunt down someone who has a vast knowledge of science and bacteria for a full run down on this.

Here is the thing. Unfiltered oil contains mostly the same bacteria as is floating around in the air we breathe. Because the majority of it got into the oil from the air.

When you sterilize a vial with a piece of foil over the top. Then remove the foil to put the stopper on. Instantly, its not sterile.

Look at how mushrooms are inoculated. Them guys spend serious time creating flow hoods and sterile boxes to work inside. They spray them with bleach, iso alcohol ect Just to keep the air inside the box sterile. Because they know that if the mushrooms spores come into contact with outside air, they are going to be contaminated. Why do people think its any different than with steroids?

Its probably my fault for wording this thread wrong. But my basic question is, how come most UGL vials are sterile, despite the fact that the vials they inject the filtered oil into are contaminated with likely thousands of different forms of bacteria? So what kills this bacteria?

We have already came to the adequate conclusion that when vials and stoppers are sterilized in the oven, like most UGL do it, they are not sterile, once the stoppers go on.

But for some reason most HPLC tests of UGL vials shows very rarely bacteria contamination.

So what actually kills this bacteria?

By the way, all this is completely irrelevant if the vials have been through an autoclave. Because then they would not have been exposed to airborne bacteria. And then filtering is fucking awesome. But as is clear, its not the case when vials are sterilized in the damn oven. Does this make sense?

And for anyone saying i am a troll, is it not clear how fucking much time and effort i have spent researching this? Duh.

 

[Monstar]

Vastly lessening impurities and bacteria is a good reason. BA is a preservative to keep crap from growing if it does get contaminated. 2% BA is not meant to solve any and all issues or take your shit from filthy to clean.

 

[TownTX]

Vastly lessening impurities and bacteria is a good reason. BA is a preservative to keep crap from growing if it does get contaminated. 2% BA is not meant to solve any and all issues or take your shit from filthy to clean.

I'm not saying that BA kills all bacteria or that its a great disinfectant. But from the studies i have read. When BA at less than 1% concentration is placed in a vial with high levels of bacteria. The results are a 100% kill of all bacteria after 7 days. These findings tend to point towards BA being a more than capable disinfectant and not just a preservative to stop bacteria formation.

Of course, its only my opinion but i highly doubt any bacteria would survive after 7 days in a vial containing 5% BA. The kill rates at 0.75% are fairly unbelievable!

Of course we are talking about disinfectant capabilities. BA wouldn't remove the toxins left behind from the dead bacteria. IMO it would just render all bacteria dead. So yes gear should be filtered to remove these toxins, heavy metals and other contaminants. Who the fuck wants to inject lead or mercury, right? But again that is not the point of this thread.

This is simply about whether or not filtering has any real impact on the level of bacteria in a vial. And whether or not BA is responsible for the majority of the disinfectant.

 

[TX_Hempknight]

I assumed they were in a somewhat sterile room, with air flow turned off just for that reason. Otherwise I would assume, like you mentioned, that they would have a still air box, glove box or a flow hood. Some even do it over or close to a bunsen burner that creates an air flow. As far as the vials, you can get pre sterilized vials that dont open up to the outside air. But if I was to do it, Id use my still air box.

 

[ickyrica]

If i injected some unfiltered GSO i doubt anything would happen.

stop with the speculation. You're an asshole. You would end up with a sterile abscess and you would be hating life. There is a real possibility that you would end up with worse, and need to have a debridement where you injected the unfiltered oil. Your "non bro science" bro science is reckless and your attitude toward rationality is obtuse. You're not smarter because you found an article, you just found an article. There are many more articles available out on the internet to support any claim that you want to bolster. It doesn't make it correct, best practice or in anyway a good idea. It just makes it an article.

You won't inject unfiltered oil because you're a pussy and don't have the balls to back your assertions, aka you know you're wrong.

To any new home brewer reading this, don't take this thread with a grain of salt. This is one of those free public service announcements where you can learn from someone else's mistakes. You want to know what happens when you inject unfiltered oil? Look up ddp7 (old meso member) and read about his little non filtered oil experiment. That's what the end result is going to end up like. You're not going to get what you want out of this if you skip steps, especially anything regarding sterility. Oh, and just remember that the guy peddling the idea doesn't even have the stones to try it. One guess as to why...

 

[PIZZABOY]

Yes i intend for this to be a serious discussion. Not a shit show of, bro if you don't filter you're an asshole ect.

Most people seem to think that BA is useful only to stop the development of bacteria. But from research it seems that benzyl alcohol is a more than capable disinfectant. Its listed in the British Veterinary Association's veterinary formulary as being a capable disinfectant.

Now lets look at a study of Benzyl Alcohol placed in a vial with bacteria.



This one isn't related to AAS but shows BA's capability at destroying most forms of bacteria.

http://www.processdevelopmentforum.com/files/tips/PDFForJune18.pdf

The air we breathe contains over 1800 different kinds of bacteria.

Now lets look at how vials are sterilized in most home brew operations.

1. They are placed in the oven at a pre-set temperature, each covered with a piece of tin foil.
2. Stoppers are baked in the oven at a pre-set temperature and usually dipped in benzyl alcohol.
3. Once vials are cool the foil tops are taken off the vials one by one and the rubber stopper placed on each vial.
4. The oil is injected into each vial using a needle, syringe filter and vent needle.

Lets get back to the point that is in bold text above. The air CONTAINS over 1800 different kinds of bacteria...

As soon as the foil is removed from each vial the entire inner part of the vial is exposed to 1800 different kinds of bacteria. This is an IMMEDIATE process and know matter how quick you do it, its still exposed.

So we basically sterilize vials and stoppers, only to expose them to thousands of different kinds of bacteria after sterilization. We also sterilize our oil, only to inject it into already contaminated glass enclosures.

Unless you are using sterile vials that you have bought which have already been sterilized in an autoclave and sealed, it seems pointless to filter the oil. My understanding is that vials are capped with the stopper before they go into an autoclave. To prevent what i am discussing in this post.

So considering most people don't get infections from UGL steroids. It seems that the benzyl alcohol probably does 99% of the disinfecting. Considering most UGL's don't invest thousands in autoclaves and expensive equipment.

Lets discuss... Bro science aside please. I'd like this to be an intelligent discussion, not a shit show.

I'm on TRT. ingrdients, cottonseed oil and active ingredient. no BA. NO PIP, high numbers, I bet my test levels are higher of 1 shot every two weeks than you guys taking twice a week if 250. tbat ugl shit is cut and diluted so bad...

 

[LeoTC]

I'm on TRT. ingrdients, cottonseed oil and active ingredient. no BA. NO PIP, high numbers, I bet my test levels are higher of 1 shot every two weeks than you guys taking twice a week if 250. tbat ugl shit is cut and diluted so bad...

250mg is 250mg.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

250mg is 250mg.

Exactly. As long as they're dosed the same, there isn't going to be any difference.

 

[TownTX]

I'm on TRT. ingrdients, cottonseed oil and active ingredient. no BA. NO PIP, high numbers, I bet my test levels are higher of 1 shot every two weeks than you guys taking twice a week if 250. tbat ugl shit is cut and diluted so bad...

Lol its nice to hear that you think your pharma test is so special. Test is test man, you aren't getting more numbers than any of us using UGL providing we are using reputable sources.

Personally i get a large batch of raws, mass spec them and that's my gear for a year at a time. Even with the testing still works out much cheaper than buying pharma or UGL.

stop with the speculation. You're an asshole. You would end up with a sterile abscess and you would be hating life. There is a real possibility that you would end up with worse, and need to have a debridement where you injected the unfiltered oil. Your "non bro science" bro science is reckless and your attitude toward rationality is obtuse. You're not smarter because you found an article, you just found an article. There are many more articles available out on the internet to support any claim that you want to bolster. It doesn't make it correct, best practice or in anyway a good idea. It just makes it an article.

You won't inject unfiltered oil because you're a pussy and don't have the balls to back your assertions, aka you know you're wrong.

To any new home brewer reading this, don't take this thread with a grain of salt. This is one of those free public service announcements where you can learn from someone else's mistakes. You want to know what happens when you inject unfiltered oil? Look up ddp7 (old meso member) and read about his little non filtered oil experiment. That's what the end result is going to end up like. You're not going to get what you want out of this if you skip steps, especially anything regarding sterility. Oh, and just remember that the guy peddling the idea doesn't even have the stones to try it. One guess as to why...

Its not speculation. Not everyone who injects bacteria will get an infection. In fact an extremely small minority of people who inject contaminated oil will get an infection... Its a fact.

I have actually used a 10ml vial of unfiltered test that i brewed several years ago. Serious pip but no abscess or infection.

 

[master.on]

This is an awesome troll account.
Why filter?

So you’re seriously asking why filter? Yet won’t contact a pharma Corp because they are more or less in a clean room?
Why filter?

Yet you ask why filter?

Simple answer is (why filter?)any size contaminants that can be drawn and injected.
Why filter?

BA is not going to stop an infection (why filter?) after injection (why filter?) if you inject an contaminant. Why filter?

Why filter?
We are all idiots (why filter?) and you’re big mad.
Why filter?
Oh and you know who master.on is (why filter?) just off of the fact of how you responded to that insult.
Why filter?
Like I said awesome troll account.
Troll account. Why filter. Filter. Troll. Filter.
Not sterile. Unsterile vial. Why filter?

Seriously why clean? Why sterilize? Why bother to put them in a vial or cap? Why not just leave it brewed in an open container right in the environment maybe the garage and pin out of that?
Head ass.

Not even @master.on dared to suggest skipping filtering.
He just suggested skipping BA, and only when all the gear in the vial was to be injected in a few days.