Why do i feel nothing from injections but feel transdermals

[keriheat]

Here's an idea:

If the depression is being caused by the high peak TT (i feel worst as the shot is peaking) perhaps i could do one injection per month at say 400mg.

I would feel like shit for the first week, but after the injection peaks in my system, i would start to feel better as it starts to drop down and since the half life is 7-10 days I would be good for a month.

This is totally SPECULATION and i dont know if it would work like that.

All i know, whether i do 10mg, 50mg, 100mg, 150mg, i feel worse as the shot is PEAKING and then once it's peaked and few days after, i start to feel better.

How 'bout a once a year shot? :drooling:

 

[Tyler81]

How 'bout a once a year shot? :drooling:

Ha ha very funny....

 

[keriheat]

Tyler, I ran across something that peaked my interest. It is Chlorobutanol, used in many medications as a preservative, particularly in Testosterone Enanthate. I have pasted some clips about the chemical and have also listed the Enanthate and the Cypionate for your reference. There are also 3 links to articles about Chlorobutanol and the effects it has had on patients. Notably, it is noted as a depressant. I wonder if you do not have a high sensitivity to this drug and may be the cause for your depression. Incidently, Chlorobutanol is not in Cypionate.

Chlorobutanol

Web based Drug Database (1.10 Linux) - SafeScript/Fern

The Downside of Tear Preservatives | Your link to the world's top Dry Eye experts

Chlorobutanol. This is an alcohol- based preservative used in artificial tears and as the active ingredient in cer tain sedatives and anesthetics. It has a wide range of antimicrobial ac tion. It works by disorganizing the lipid structure of the cell membrane, increasing the permeability of the cell. In one double-blind cross-over study, however, chlorobutanol 0.5% in artificial tears was shown to cause irritation in over half of the subjects.7

C for chlorobutanol
Commonly used as a chemical preservative in cosmetic and pharmaceutical products, continuous use of this nasty, which is usually made up of chloroform and acetone, can cause skin or tissue irritation. High exposure to chlorobutanol also carries a small risk of neurotoxic side effects.

Chlorobutanol

TOXICOLOGY
Ingestion: The acute oral LD50 is 283 mg/kg in female rats and 317 mg/kg in male rats. A single dose of 177 mg/kg produced depression and debilitation, ataxis, stained fur, bloody tears and diarrhoe but no mortality in female rats. Other signs produced at higher doses included lethargy, prostration, slow respiration, salivation, lacrimation, piloerection and ano-genital stains. A single oral dose of 177 mg/kg produced depression, lethargy, glassy eyes, prostration, stained fur and piloerection but no mortality in male rats. Other signs produced at high doses included lacrimation, slow respiration, ano-genital stains and bloody tears. Single oral doses of 251 mg/kg and higher produced mortality in both male and female rats.




Testosterone Enanthate
Testosterone Enanthate injection, solution
Product Information
Product Type HUMAN PRESCRIPTION DRUG LABEL Item Code (Source) NDC:0591-3221
Route of Administration INTRAMUSCULAR DEA Schedule CIII

Active Ingredient/Active Moiety
Ingredient Name Basis of Strength Strength
Testosterone Enanthate (TESTOSTERONE) Testosterone Enanthate 200 mg in 1 mL

Inactive Ingredients
Ingredient Name Strength
CHLOROBUTANOL 5.25 mg in 1 mL
SESAME OIL


Packaging
# Item Code Package Description
1 NDC:0591-3221-26 1 VIAL, MULTI-DOSE (1 VIAL) in 1 CARTON
1 5 mL in 1 VIAL, MULTI-DOSE



Labeler - Watson Laboratories, Inc. (966714656)






Testosterone Cypionate
Testosterone Cypionate injection
Product Information
Product Type HUMAN PRESCRIPTION DRUG LABEL Item Code (Source) NDC:0143-9726
Route of Administration INTRAMUSCULAR DEA Schedule CIII

Active Ingredient/Active Moiety
Ingredient Name Basis of Strength Strength
Testosterone Cypionate (TESTOSTERONE) Testosterone Cypionate 200 mg in 1 mL

Inactive Ingredients
Ingredient Name Strength
BENZYL BENZOATE 0.2 mL in 1 mL
COTTONSEED OIL 560 mg in 1 mL
BENZYL ALCOHOL 9.45 mg in 1 mL


Packaging
# Item Code Package Description
1 NDC:0143-9726-01 10 mL in 1 VIAL

 

[Tyler81]

Tyler, I ran across something that peaked my interest. It is Chlorobutanol, used in many medications as a preservative, particularly in Testosterone Enanthate. I have pasted some clips about the chemical and have also listed the Enanthate and the Cypionate for your reference. There are also 3 links to articles about Chlorobutanol and the effects it has had on patients. Notably, it is noted as a depressant. I wonder if you do not have a high sensitivity to this drug and may be the cause for your depression. Incidently, Chlorobutanol is not in Cypionate.

That is definetly an interesting find!!!

There is no harm in giving cyp a shot (no pun intended) ... but I will most likely order it online and try it first before requesting a formal change from my doctor incase I have the same reaction to it as I do to Ethlanate.

I am currently 90% covered for the gel and i pay only $20 per month so I dont want to mess with that until i am totally sure I dont get depression from shots.

Cyp is worth a try.

Thanks for your post. Appreciate it.

 

[keriheat]

That is definetly an interesting find!!!

There is no harm in giving cyp a shot (no pun intended) ... but I will most likely order it online and try it first before requesting a formal change from my doctor incase I have the same reaction to it as I do to Ethlanate.

I am currently 90% covered for the gel and i pay only $20 per month so I dont want to mess with that until i am totally sure I dont get depression from shots.

Cyp is worth .

Thanks for your post. Appreciate it.

Yea, even if you could find a 1ml vial and break it down into like 4 injections or more. Never know until you try!

 

[Tyler81]

It is 5 days post injection.

I did 100mg on Sunday night. Today is Friday afternoon.

I feel the depression lifting.

The good news is, it seems I can do any dose of testosterone and after 5days the depression will lift. The first 2-4 days I have very very brutal depression tho. It is very bad. But if I can will myself through it (reminding myself it will lift) it does lift after approx 5 days.

If this is the case, technically I should be able to do a 400mg shot and same thing should technically happen.

I am not going to touch injections for awhile but the next time I do one I will do a higher dose and see if this same thing holds true.

The depression has something to do with the "peak levels" it seems. I believe shots peak very high in my system whether its 10mg or 100mg. They peak high. And once the peak starts to drop down to a more manageable level, i feel ok.

 

[Tyler81]

I did a 10mg shot about a month back and my levels were 1000ng/dl three days post injection. That is NUTS!!!!!!!!!! for 10mg.

I believe what is happening here is, no matter what dose inejction I do, they PEAK VERY VERY HIGH (over 1000ng/dl) and this is what causes the depression. Its just too damn high.

Then, once they peak, they rapidly drop down to a more reasonable level and the depression lifts.

 

[terresw]

Sorry but it wasn't a 10 mg shot alone that put u at 1000. No way .

 

[Tyler81]

Sorry but it wasn't a 10 mg shot alone that put u at 1000. No way .

10mg shot and I was doing 5g gel too.

I did blood work 72 hours post injection and my levels were 1000ng/dl.

 

[terresw]

Did they do the blood draw from an area where u applied the gel?

 

[foreveryoung]

It is 5 days post injection.

I did 100mg on Sunday night. Today is Friday afternoon.

I feel the depression lifting.

The good news is, it seems I can do any dose of testosterone and after 5days the depression will lift. The first 2-4 days I have very very brutal depression tho. It is very bad. But if I can will myself through it (reminding myself it will lift) it does lift after approx 5 days.

If this is the case, technically I should be able to do a 400mg shot and same thing should technically happen.

I am not going to touch injections for awhile but the next time I do one I will do a higher dose and see if this same thing holds true.

The depression has something to do with the "peak levels" it seems. I believe shots peak very high in my system whether its 10mg or 100mg. They peak high. And once the peak starts to drop down to a more manageable level, i feel ok.

this approach of once in a while single shot experiments seems like a really bad idea to me. shots are meant to be done regularly and for a long enough period of time, then evaluated. the endocrine system is meant to be nudged in a direction and then continued that way to let things adjust and level out... doing one or two big shots and expecting immediate good things to happen is not how this works

 

[Tyler81]

this approach of once in a while single shot experiments seems like a really bad idea to me. shots are meant to be done regularly and for a long enough period of time, then evaluated. the endocrine system is meant to be nudged in a direction and then continued that way to let things adjust and level out... doing one or two big shots and expecting immediate good things to happen is not how this works

That sounds all well and good mr young but i am not going to subject myself to indefinite amounts of depression on injections if this is how i react to them.

I want to be alive and if i did regular shots I would shoot myself in the brain.

 

[foreveryoung]

I wasn't suggesting you do anything, just merely stating that any 1 or 2 injection experiments are pretty much useless and irrelevant

 

[Tyler81]

I wasn't suggesting you do anything, just merely stating that any 1 or 2 injection experiments are pretty much useless and irrelevant

I've done 6 over the past two months. Most have been 50mg or 100mg.

 

[foreveryoung]

I've done 6 over the past two months. Most have been 50mg or 100mg.

ok, I was just referring to the post above where you said something like you won't be doing any more injections, except maybe 1 big one in the future, and that is why I made my point, because I don't think the endocrine system is something that one wants to "shock" like that and expect good things from it, I am a believer in picking a basic protocol and sticking with it relatively steadily for a couple months, letting the body "get used to" the new protocol and levels and begin to settle in to the benefits part of things rather than the system being in shock from unfamiliar hormonal levels .... the way I feel 4 days after an injection now is completely different than the way I felt 4 days after an injection a month ago, the steadiness over time is important in the endocrine system I believe

 

[Tyler81]

I am a believer in picking a basic protocol and sticking with it relatively steadily for a couple months, letting the body "get used to" the new protocol and levels and begin to settle in to the benefits part of things rather than the system being in shock from unfamiliar hormonal levels .... the way I feel 4 days after an injection now is completely different than the way I felt 4 days after an injection a month ago, the steadiness over time is important in the endocrine system I believe

Yeah generally. But i think there is something to be said about feeling bad versus feeling neutral. On the gels i felt no results for at least two weeks, but during this time, I didnt feel bad, I felt neutral. If shots made me feel neutral then I would continue them on a weekly basis. But they make me feel plain awful.

The six injections i have done have been spaced out fairly evenly and there is no difference in how i feel from the first one versus the six one. Just plain awful.

 

[Tyler81]

If I can't figure this out i am going to come off in december.

i would rather live with low T levels than slather on a gel that doesnt work or do injections that make me feel deprsesed as fuck

 

[keriheat]

If I can't figure this out i am going to come off in december.

i would rather live with low T levels than slather on a gel that doesnt work or do injections that make me feel deprsesed as fuck

How do you feel about at least trying the Test-Cyp instead of the Test-E which has the chlorobutanol in it?

 

[NeedsHRT]

I actually found a solution to the same problem. I did feel a spike on gel that I definitely did not feel otherwise. I tried testosterone cypionate and enanthate and no matter how much AI or SERM I took I still felt like crap. I did not even want to workout. I switched to testosterone propionate and am a beast now with energy. I'd recommend finding a pharmacy that compounds that if you can. They have to make it the right way with ethyl oleate though otherwise it's gonna leave craters and release too fast. It has a shorter half life so my theory is it converts less to estrogen and more to DHT.

Most likely the gel is causing huge spikes in DHT and most likely you have other hormone and or neurotransmitter problems that you are compensating for.