Why do orals have zero effect on me?

[Type-IIx]

Nobody is straw manning or moving any goalposts. If that's what you think is going on it would be apparent that you did some reading and memorizing without any actual understanding. From your mouthing off it's also apparent you don't actually understand nor possess critical thinking skills to digest what I have said.

Further. Cyp2c9 isn't even responsible for anabolic steroid metabolism. They are metabolized almost exclusively by cyp234a. In fact cyp2c9 produces ZERO anabolic metabolites when fed anabolics, unlike other enzymes lol. The other chemicals he claimed do work are also metabolized by cyp234a. Another nail in your theory coffin. The research on this is clear and abundant. Yes there are other enzymes that can metabolize minuscule amounts of certain other anabolics however even with that your theory is still extremely far fetched and almost outlandish in fact.



Here you are claiming that cyp2c9 is the enzyme is the one that metabolizes anabolics, when we know it has nothing at all to do with anabolic metabolism lmao.

There you also are claiming that the injectables you are defending now "which he reports are working", was an underwhelming cycle, implying he's not taking enough to get results. I agree that 100mg test is small trt at best but to go out and claim that 600mg primo and 35 ment is nothing shows your lack of practical application.

You're basic argument is that op is a fucking alien who isn't affected by anabolics lmao. Ok. Let's pretend his body metabolizes anabolics so fast they can't affect him. His pics make it clear he has androgen receptors and there is active testosterone in his body (which should have been metabolized by cyp234a. Oops). He would have never went through puberty if what you're suggesting can even be considered as evidence.

I'll say again. Either op is some sort of genetic freaks who p450 enzymes single out anabolics exclusively to digest before they affect him, or he has got bunk gear. Now you have spun it around that it's more likely for him to be the only human in history to be able to do something which evidence shows isn't true. Lol

All you've done is whine and shown nothing to refute what I've said about your quackery. Do better

If you fail to see the strawmen and shifting goalposts in your prior response I don't see a reason to continue going back and forth with you.

I'll just leave this here CYP2C9 - cytochrome P450 family 2 subfamily C member 9 (human)

OP can look into inter-individual variation in the gene. Just a few:
...30 variants have been reported...

The pharmacogenetics of CYP2C9 and CYP2C19: ethnic variation and clinical significance - PubMed

CYP2C9 and CYP2C19 are important drug metabolizing enzymes and together metabolize about 18% of currently available drugs. Some of the important groups of drugs that are metabolized by them are antihypertensives, hypoglycemics, anticonvulsants, antiulcer drugs etc. Genes encoding these enzymes...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

...These data revealed that almost two-thirds of CYP2C9 variants showed decreased activity and that protein abundance accounted for half of the variation in CYP2C9 function. We also measured activity scores for 319 previously unannotated human variants, many of which may have clinical relevance....

Massively parallel characterization of CYP2C9 variant enzyme activity and abundance - PubMed

CYP2C9 encodes a cytochrome P450 enzyme responsible for metabolizing up to 15% of small molecule drugs, and CYP2C9 variants can alter the safety and efficacy of these therapeutics. In particular, the anti-coagulant warfarin is prescribed to over 15 million people annually and polymorphisms in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

...We identified 264 (69%) CYP2C9*1/*1, 77 (20%) CYP2C9*1/*2, and 29 (8%) CYP2C9*1/*3...

Associations of CYP2C9 and CYP2C19 Pharmacogenetic Variation with Phenytoin-Induced Cutaneous Adverse Drug Reactions - PubMed

The role of cytochrome P450 (CYP)2C9 and CYP2C19 genetic variation in risk for phenytoin-induced cutaneous adverse drug events is not well understood independently of the human leukocyte antigen B (HLA-B)*15:02 risk allele. In the multi-ethnic resource for Genetic Epidemiology Research on Adult...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There is considerable variation in this gene.

Evidence that this is the Cyt. P450 enzyme principally responsible for metabolism of oxandrolone Recommendations for Management of Clinically Significant Drug-Drug Interactions With Statins and Select Agents Used in Patients With Cardiovascular Disease: A Scientific Statement From the American Heart Association - PubMed

 

[Megadick3000]

Quite a conspiracy that only his orals are bunk but not injectables, don't you think?

I think i hear what your saying... its interdimensional shape shifting aliens. Those crafty bastards.

 

[1tank1]

This thread turned into great sleep therapy for me. It got so boring that I fell into a deep coma overnight for 10 hours.

 

[Megadick3000]

This thread turned into great sleep therapy for me. It got so boring that I fell into a deep coma overnight for 10 hours.

Science, bitch!

 

[Norse13]

Science, bitch!

Let's get this thread back on track...

 

[klokke23]

17AAs are metabolized by the CYP2C9 enzyme. It might be that genetically you rapidly oxidize compounds via CYP2C9 (there is wide variability). With respect to the 100 test/600 primo/4IU rhGH/35 MENT, this is just an underwhelming cycle for strength and anabolism. Primo especially, but even MENT, are very mild muscle tissue builders and don't promote strength substantially.

What orals would you suggest if your theory is correct? I would very much be able to peak with orals like everyone else. I was thinking mibolerone (cheque drops), or anything that's not 17aa. Correct me if I'm wrong but methylstenbolone and M1T seems to not be 17a alkylated.

Here's a list from a certain source that seems interesting (and toxic, yum).
Methyltestosterone, Methoxydienone, Androstenedione, Methyltrienolone, Mibolerone, Epistane, Epiandrosterone, Mebolazine, Clostebol, Mestanolone, Mestanolone

Boldione, Norandrostenedione, 4-Androsten-3b-ol-17-one, Halodrol, trendione, Hexadrone, Ultradrol, 1-Testosterone..

 

[Type-IIx]

What orals would you suggest if your theory is correct? I would very much be able to peak with orals like everyone else. I was thinking mibolerone (cheque drops), or anything that's not 17aa. Correct me if I'm wrong but methylstenbolone and M1T seems to not be 17a alkylated.

Here's a list from a certain source that seems interesting (and toxic, yum).
Methyltestosterone, Methoxydienone, Androstenedione, Methyltrienolone, Mibolerone, Epistane, Epiandrosterone, Mebolazine, Clostebol, Mestanolone, Mestanolone

Boldione, Norandrostenedione, 4-Androsten-3b-ol-17-one, Halodrol, trendione, Hexadrone, Ultradrol, 1-Testosterone..

Your confusion regarding methylstenbolone likely arises from its common chemical name 2,17α-dimethyl-... & perhaps you saw that M1T is often referred to as "17α-methylated." Same issue with mibolerone (7α,17-dimethyl...) In any event, these are all 17AAs (very potently hepatotoxic ones).

Practically speaking, if you have a particular CYP2C9 expression, this has widespread implications for metabolizing many, many androgens, it is indeed the most affected cytochrome by AAS administration. There's a couple solutions that do come to mind if this is the case.

I have some ideas. This is the sort of thing that I'd be happy to work on with you on a (paid) consultancy basis, you can PM me if you want to do that.

Don't go poisoning yourself with that laundry list of chemicals please.

 

[prop]

This is what I've tried:
- dbol back in 2001 and a buddy of mine in Southeast Asia bough a tub of 1000 British dispensary pinkies straight from a pharmacy it was like 30 usd so he just kept 200 pills for himself and gave me 800. I was so disappointed they did absolutely nothing no water no strength no size and they were real my buddy got all the effects positive and negative, I upped it to 60 mg at one point and still nothing.
- anadrol did nothing @ 100mg no sides or gains.
-test works ok but I need 750-1000 a week to see good results and this was all human grade ampoules Karachi sustanon, ICN galenika test enanthate, omnadren by jelfa stuff like that.
-tren just made my temper go up and made me angry but no strength or anything like people talk about it, I was taking 100 mg EOD of tren ace.
-Anavar worked great @ 40mg a day awesome strength & pumps and endurance I like it with no visible sides.
-Superdrol was awesome in terms of strength and size my bench went up 10lb a week for 7 weeks @20mg a day but side effects and shutdown was awful.
-EQ I've done at 600mg I'm not sure what that did since i was stacking it and its also long acting and mild so my opinion on this drug is inconclusive
-deca works great for size and strength @ 300mg i got about 5 lb of bloat and strength went up a bit but it makes me break out.
-the old school pro hormone phera-plex aka madol made me blow up with water and I got strong from it but I piss it all away when I stopped taking it.

I think the best course of action when doing stuff for me would just be test cyp 600-800 and 40-60mg anavar everything else either doesn't work or it gives me side effects that are not worth dealing with.

 

[Norse13]

This is what I've tried:
- dbol back in 2001 and a buddy of mine in Southeast Asia bough a tub of 1000 British dispensary pinkies straight from a pharmacy it was like 30 usd so he just kept 200 pills for himself and gave me 800. I was so disappointed they did absolutely nothing no water no strength no size and they were real my buddy got all the effects positive and negative, I upped it to 60 mg at one point and still nothing.
- anadrol did nothing @ 100mg no sides or gains.

Back in 2002 I bought at pharmacy in Bangkok, British Dispensary Androlic (50mg anadrol) and Danabol (10mg dianabol, blue hearts). I had samples of both tested, I don't recall the exact figures but the danabol clocked in at around 11.2mg and the androlic somewhere above 50.

 

[Country Club Hero]

Out of curiosity, do you get no effect from other medicines too? Whatever you take - tadalafil, blood pressure, pain killers, anti inflammatory, modafinil... I'm not interested in experimenting with opioids and benzos, but those few times I have taken them after surgeries, my head have been spinning (oxycontin, tramadol, diazepam etc.)

As for oral steroids, I have no problems to feel that my biceps are harder (relaxed state, not pumped) after a week on superdrol or turinabol, it's not just in my head, my wife can feel it too. I wouldn't call it insane or such hyperboles, but it is easily noticeable.

Dude, I get that too from orals! Like a constant pump or tension in the bicep about half way down and all the way to the elbow. I never realized it was associated with orals until you said something. And I know it well because I rarely use orals.

 

[BCBuilder]

Theoretically, but here are some issues:

17AAs are also inhibitors of CYP2C9, so given that he's taking such high dosages he should have some results.

Naringin (grapefruit's most active bioflavonoid) is a somewhat broad Cyt. P450 inhibitor and will interact with metabolism of a wide array of drugs, so if anyone reads this and happen to be taking any of the myriad drugs metabolized by these enzymes, following this recommendation could cause them harm

Can't grapefruit even interact with generic bp meds and the sort? I remember hearing about this in passing recently, it's really cool to see such a thorough explanation given here.

 

[klokke23]

Here is bloodwork 11 days after I stopped orals, and the cycle.

 

[1tank1]

British Dispensary Androlic (50mg anadrol) and Danabol (10mg dianabol, blue hearts).

The good old days. Proper top quality gear that didn't even need lab testing.
You started growing within 48 hours even on a shit diet ROFL

 

[Para_33]

This is going to sound like I'm lying. But please believe me. I'm starting to get immensely frustrated. I've tried all of the common orals and they do absolutely nothing. In fact, most steroids have had an incredibly underwhelming effect on me.

You might be thinking I eat and train like a pussy. But I eat religiously and I know how to train.

I see how people talk about orals here. Immediate effect and strength gains. I see none of that. Especially since I often do powerlifting blocks, my rep scheme and corresponding strength that go with it is very predictable and I would easily notice a strength increase from drugs.

Right now I'm on 100 test, 600 primo, 4iu hgh ED and 35 MENT ED. And it's like I'm on TRT. Primo and MENT has done nothing for my training. Except for recovery. If it weren't for my noticeably higher recovery (and increased body temp) then I'd say I'd gotten bunk raws. Extremely underwhelming in terms of mass building and strength. 500 test gave me MUCH more of both.

I added 60 anavar and 60 tbol to my blast. Nothing. Not even an extra rep in the tank. Not sides like back pumps or shin pumps either. I stacked 30 halo for 2 weeks at the end of a block to see if it would help my peak. Added 5 kg to my squat PR (195 kg), which is what I usually get on TRT. So halo was shit.

Now, at the end of my useless MENT blast I'm doing Candito 6 week. I've added 120 anavar and 60 superdrol without having any experience with such doses, or superdrol in particular. I'm just so tilted. Week 3 now and again, nothing. The rep scheme is completely on track, and on course as if I'm programming on TRT only. When the program calls for a 10 or 6, that's what I can do. Not a single rep left in the tank.

And nothing in my physique either. None of that intramuscular water retention. No added focus or aggression in the gym from either halo or superdrol. Which I saw on reddit is very common.

I tried dbol before. I was sure it was fake and gave my source shit for it. I was eating 160 mg 3x a day at one point just to prove to myself it HAD to be fake. Didn't do anything estrogen wise. Could've been bunk ofc. Shitty Norwegian source.
I got anadrol from a 2nd source. Also noticed nothing so I ate an absurd amount just to check. Still nothing. Gave that source some bad reviews and got banned from the Norwegian forum for that lol.
Tried anadrol and anavar once more from a 3rd source. Still nothing. Decided to come here and get the raws. And still nothing.
Wtf

Adding physique photo just so you know I'm not some dyel clueless high schooler. Not trying to say I'm huge either. But I know enough to tell that orals haven't done shit.

No bloodwork while on orals. Doctor refuse to take my bloods while I'm on steroids. Welcome to Scandinavia. I hear Denmark is even worse.

Maybe the 600 Primo is crushing all of the bioidentical E2 from the 100 Test.

Your still getting significant estrogen activity from the MENT’s 7a-Methylestradiol, but it’s possible this form behaves quite a bit differently from bioidentical E2.

i haven’t experimented enough with Ment only, to compare the effects of 7a-methylestradiol compared to just straight E2 to say for sure, but it’s kind of well excepted you need E2 to be Atleast in range or preferably higher for some to grow nearly as effectively.

Maybe there is something to this.

I also don’t feel a ton from orals either in an acute sense. The body comp changes are noticeable
Though quite a bit in short time periods.