Why don't sources test their product before it leaves?

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

I'd say a good % of the people jumping so quick you never hear from or see on the forum

Oh no we hear all about it after they create an account to post that they sent a UGL money the day they popped up in the underground and never received a pack. Nice contribution on your first post, but I could have told you that two weeks ago.

 

[mercury]

This just blows my mind. I keep hearing that hey, mistakes happen. It isn't a mistake if you just flat out let it slip by because you didn't test it. You don't get to play the crap source card if you didn't even bother to test it yourself as a brewer.

.

There is always problem with accessibility; no reputable lab is going to test steroids for black market.

It is simply illegal and it gets you into trouble.\

Some labs might have access to lab if they know somebody but I do not think that there will be any change.

Labmax has been around for some time but it has not hit the mainstream. I see on other boards people post pictures of gear and try to guess instead of buying the test kit.

 

[whwlives]

You're running a UGL, taking peoples lives into your hands and can't perform a simple melting point and TLC on your RAWS? Combined with basic GMP, that can tell any UGL what it needs to know for under $5/test. There is NO excuse.

 

[4leafclover]

Zero fucks are given when it comes to the almighty dollar. Who cares about quality control when they will never actually see the end user?

 

[whwlives]

... and this is why testing will drive them out of business and why one (or a few) labs will rise to the top.

No REAL chemist gives zero fucks. REAL chemists try to beat each other, purity wise, just because.

Consider it the chem-nerd equivalent of a dick measuring contest.

Zero fucks are given when it comes to the almighty dollar. Who cares about quality control when they will never actually see the end user?

 

[4leafclover]

The problem is we aren't dealing with chemists. I also hate to tell you this, but lots of chemists work for big pharma, whose main concern is making money (the publicly traded companies). If they weren't regulated, god only knows what kind of snake oil we would see from them.

In the real world, they are very few Mr. White's, and all throughout our history there have been a plethora of snake oil vendors. Men are greedy fucks, it's up to us the consumers to attempt to regulate this industry as much as possible, rather than relying on the good will of chemists to do it for us.

 

[inthered]

Great comments so far and I agree with most of them. I think the biggest reason is that the people running these underground labs know that they're only going to operate for a short amount of time. Well, at least the guys running domestically in the States. Likely, they start up shop knowing full-well what will happen, "We are going to ship out good product for the first month, get customers and good reviews and by the third month, we're going to bail. We're going to say that we're restocking, having shipping problems, our ceiling caved in, our family members are having a hard time, working is getting really busy, etc., and start sending out fake product and shortly after, just disappear with a ton of tax-free cash."

Most realize that running an operation like this is simply beyond their means. It looks like, by their own admission, that most of these guys have full-time jobs. It BLOWS my mind that someone thinks they can run a full-time, mega lab while also working a full-time job and having a family. They're probably thinking, "Hey, I can get together some vials, filters, some gear, etc. and if I'm suave enough and articulate, I can pull in $50,000 in just a couple of months and then disappear." So, if you have no intention of sticking around, and, if your whole business plan revolves around grabbing as much money as possible and disappearing, then we're going to have this revolving door. I just look at recent posts, where someone new comes in and within an hour we have members sending them money. That's the reason: anyone can come here and with just a few hours of work, at least get some money wired to them without a whole lot of hassle and virtually no risk.

I am in no way calling anyone out. I've gotten screwed (recently as a matter of fact) but I think we underestimate the amount of lurkers on here, that don't even have usernames, that order from these sources. There appear to be some respectable sources on here, and I'm sure that all of the members here thank you for being honest and straightforward, but I think even the novice members here are catching on that the vast majority of sources that come here are fraudulant.

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

No we may not be dealing with chemists, not every SRC has enough pride in themselves to want to have pride in their product. HOWEVER, a smart businessman, and a man that wants to not only make good coin but also stay out of dodge long enough to enjoy it should know it's all about that slow trickle. Take on only what you can handle, stay small, provide a premium product at a competitive price, and when your T/A starts to stretch out go private. Recoup and re-evaluate, smart guys make it on the comeback. Good product, good customer service, good T/A...repeat customer. Limit your exposure, no new clients, and scale very slowly only if you need to dream bigger. You have to spend it to make it and that includes TESTING, packagers, reshippers, the whole nine. These kids that pop up in the underground are a flash in the pan, some of them can't even ship! Fuck a quick buck, a smart SRC could literally print paper and with the right lifestyle stay carefree to old age. So is it really greed that takes over? Or is it the fact that many guys smart enough to understand these very basic principles need not come to a public board to src publicly? If they were on several boards how hard would it be to just do it by referral only, longer yes, but we have already touched on the slow trickle principle. This business plan IMO is not only the best route, it's the ONLY route that is mutually beneficial for all parties involved.

 

[devildog93]

Definitely won't argue with that TEK. It makes sense to me. I'm not saying i don't understand the scam business plan, but it seems like an awful lot of work creating new aliases all the time, gathering up shills, and reinventing yourself every 2 months when you could just do it a more stable way.

 

[whwlives]

Eloquently put, Sir!

This business plan IMO is not only the best route, it's the ONLY route that is mutually beneficial for all parties involved.

 

[S.B.C]

we attack sources for not testing but right now I can't name a single place that can do it for an average person. ( even the two famous forum mass spec guys are down right now ). Testing with the steroidcheck kit is prob the only option for them right now.

 

[devildog93]

You also have blood tests that can be run. Yea, it can't tell you the purity, but it is another tool on the list. Pretty simple if you ask me. Don't carry more shit than you can run and test. Run some of it, get your reps or trusted people to run what you can't and get labwork. Last i checked bloodwork didn't seem too costly.

Would this cause sources to have to downsize their product list...probably. Would it give us a better quality product? Again, i think probably. If a guy was carrying test c, dbol, and something else the quality control should be far easier. If they are putting out bunk shit and have a list the length of the declaration of independence they are obviously in over their head as far as we, the consumers, are concerned. If they are getting mixed up and mislabeling shit that is also taken care of by simplifying the menu, unless of course their i.q. is mid double digits.

 

[mercury]

we attack sources for not testing but right now I can't name a single place that can do it for an average person.

drug dealers, steroid dealers are for profit only where quality control is low or no existent.

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

we attack sources for not testing but right now I can't name a single place that can do it for an average person. ( even the two famous forum mass spec guys are down right now ). Testing with the steroidcheck kit is prob the only option for them right now.

Even without mass specs, bloods + labmax are a start. Explain why a big name old school lab is sending out sugar pills with NO hormones present. Why would a new start up in the underground SAY they have done independent MS but when asked to post results they deflect? How bout MFL that said they did MS on powders, but turns out they were sending Meso members female contraceptives? I feel two of these quality issues could have been resolved simply with labmax on their end. And all three could have been solved by just telling the truth, if you don't have access just say so, don't say you have tested because more guys will run this gear on assumptions alone that the guys that take the time to test. It's up to members to hold them to a higher standard because they aren't going to do it on their own, unless they are the 5% that actually understands basic business principles. If you want to make excuses for these guys then you will need to go ahead and commit to receiving under-dosed gear at best and just pray it's sterile and not something that is gonna leave you with crippling PIP, ejaculating brown shit, or sexual dysfunction. ALL OF WHICH WE HAVE SEEN IN THE LAST MONTH HERE ALONE

 

[whwlives]

There are a number of tests, outside of mass spectrometry, that will suffice to assure a UGL that their raws are what they are supposed to be and relatively pure. You can outfit a lab with the Lamborghini version of everything for under $2000.

Melting points, TLC, Saponification, and color tests.

You can do color tests via Labmax and also by using forensic lab spot tests:

Sulfuric acid, Napthol/Sulfuric, Liebermann's reagent, and Mandelin's reagent.

These are basic lab tests.

If this sounds complicated, you shouldn't be manufacturing things that people INJECT.

 

[mercury]

There are a number of tests, outside of mass spectrometry, that will suffice to assure a UGL that their raws are what they are supposed to be and relatively pure. You can outfit a lab with the Lamborghini version of everything for under $2000.

Melting points, TLC,

melting point is not a reliable method,

for example anavar and winstrol is very close, this is why a lot of anavar turns out to be winstrol if you rely on melting point.

 

[whwlives]

Melting point IS a good initial test to weed out the wrong compound and an EXCELLENT test to find intentionally adulterated compounds as the REMELT temperature will be lower than the first melt temperature.

Beyond melting point, you have TLC systems with different elutants that both yield wildly different results with Oxandrolone vs Stanozolol. The Rf values for the two recommended elutants on are 0.57:0.30 & 0.44:0.08 respectively. That means that in system #1 The Anavar is 2/3rds down the plate vs 1/3 for the Winny and in system #2 Anavar is almost 1/2 way down the plate vs Winny which has barely moved.

Both melting point and TLC will also show if (qualitative) your raw has been adulterated and approximate (quantitative) purity.

 

[TheSpectre]

we attack sources for not testing but right now I can't name a single place that can do it for an average person. ( even the two famous forum mass spec guys are down right now ). Testing with the steroidcheck kit is prob the only option for them right now.

Europe, Asia, Russia, plenty of places.

 

[mmmiron]

Honestly even if they tell you they do would you believe it? There's really no way to follow up and make sure.

 

[devildog93]

No i wouldn't take them at their word after what has gone on the past few years. I meant why not avoid the drama? If the model is get in and get out in 2 months then i totally understand why they don't give a shit. I think they should also understand why we can't trust them with that model and know that it is not in our best interest to support that model as customers.