Why is my Test >1500?

[abradabra6151]

• 5'10", 28yo, male.
• September 2019 DEXA Scan: 143.9lbs, 17.0% body fat

I lift weights for 1hour ~6x/week before work. It's always been very hard for me to gain weight of any kind, and there's obviously a ton of room for improvement here, which lead me to AAS.

First, some historical lab results so we can establish baseline:
August 2016, baseline before I ever took any AAS of any kind:

• Testosterone, Total, LC/MS: 611.7 ng/dL
• FSH: 1.9 mIU/mL
• Estradiol: 39.8 pg/mL

October 2018, Test Cyp 200mg IM weekly + Anastrozole 0.25mg MWF for 3 months:

• Testosterone, Serum: 872 ng/dL
• Free Testosterone (Direct): 25.8 pg/ml
• Estradiol, Sensitive: 23.3

My doctor changed and I was unable to continue:
March 2019, no AAS for months:

• Testosterone, Serum 468 ng/dL

New doctor prescribed Test gel:
May 2019, Artevis Hydrogel 75mg every morning for 1 month:

• Testosterone, Serum: 545 ng/dL

July 2019, regimen unchanged (Still Artevis Hydrogel 75mg every morning):

• Testosterone, Serum: 1474 ng/dL
• Free Testosterone (Direct): 41.2 pg/mL
• Estradiol, Sensitive: 16.1 pg/mL
• Prostate specific AG, Serum: 0.4 ng/mL

The testosterone here was anomalously high. I got the blood drawn within 1 hour of applying the morning Test gel, and I just chalked it up to that.

Changed back to original doctor and stopped the Test gel:
September 2019, Test Cyp 200mg IM weekly + Anastrozole 0.25mg MW + HCG 500IU MWF for 1 month:

• Testosterone, Serum: >1500 ng/dL
• Free Testosterone (Direct): 49.7 mg/mL
• Estradiol: 29.3 pg/mL
• FSH, Serum: 0.3 mIU/mL

HCG was added this time because 1 year ago on the Test Cyp alone my semen got low.

At present, side effects are mostly normal:

• Libido above baseline but not by a lot.
• Usually have morning wood
• Not irritable
• Sleeping uninterrupted 8 hours
• Bowels normal
• Peeing slightly more frequently than off-cycle, but not by much. I don't get up to pee in the middle of the night.
• Not oily. Very slight acne, hardly above baseline
• Sometimes a bit achy, hasn't been bothersome.

So, why is my Testosterone so high right now? The first time I was doing Test Cyp 200mg IM weekly, Testosterone came in at 872 (October 2018). That's what I would expect to see. This time, with the addition of HCG, it comes in at >1500, absurdly high. I'm worried if I keep Testosterone this high it will cause receptor fatigue. The confusing bit is that I don't feel like my Testosterone is 2x what it was 1 year ago. I'm not super horny or oily or aggressive. I remember in September 2019 I had incredibly high libido even though Test was considerably lower then. FSH being low right now is also odd and I don't understand it. Any thoughts on plan moving ahead or additional blood tests to do? My current plan is to cut the HCG and Test Cyp in half and get blood tests again in another month. My goal is not to do heavy on/off cycles. I'd like to establish a consistent baseline. I don't have any aversion to injections. Getting to and maintaining a lean 165lbs is the long term dream.

Notes:

• All drugs in this post, including the Test Cyp, HCG, and Anastrozole were prescribed and acquired via FDA regulated, US pharmacy. I have no doubt in the quality and quantity of the AAS I'm using.
• I've also had standard indicators like blood counts, liver indicators, glucose, and lipid panels done at various points throughout. Everything has been normal.
• I also take finasteride 1mg EOD as as preventative, currently no balding.
• I don't take any vitamins or supplements. No advil, etc.

 

[CrispyRockClimber]

This is interesting following to see what more experience people have to say

 

[testiFy]

Inj test C is more effective than the gel, even at lower dosages.

 

[abradabra6151]

Inj test C is more effective than the gel, even at lower dosages.

Thanks, that's what I would expect, but it doesn't explain why my blood test results look the way they do.
Why was Test 1474 ng/dL July 2019 when I was taking the gel, 3x what it was 2 months prior when I was also on nothing but the gel?
Why was Test 872 October 2018 when I was injecting test C and now again I'm injecting the same dose of Test C and it's 2x that? Does HCG really have such a big impact on Test? If so, why don't I just take HCG and forget the Test Cyp? I wouldn't expect that to work. The MesoRX profile on HCG even states "Availability of recombinant HCG at best low at present and there is no performance advantage to be experienced from choosing this type."

 

[testiFy]

Thanks, that's what I would expect, but it doesn't explain why my blood test results look the way they do.
Why was Test 1474 ng/dL July 2019 when I was taking the gel, 3x what it was 2 months prior when I was also on nothing but the gel?
Why was Test 872 October 2018 when I was injecting test C and now again I'm injecting the same dose of Test C and it's 2x that? Does HCG really have such a big impact on Test? If so, why don't I just take HCG and forget the Test Cyp? I wouldn't expect that to work. The MesoRX profile on HCG even states "Availability of recombinant HCG at best low at present and there is no performance advantage to be experienced from choosing this type."

HCG should raise your endo test as well. Did your e2 levels also sharply rise since adding HCG?

I was talking to a guy who has been on TRT for years and at 55 years old he is taking 500mg per week to keep his levels around 1300ng/dL. I can’t find any studies that prove out what he is saying but it would make sense your body makes less use of more test as you age. If your e2 levels are also up then yes i would assume HCG is affecting that test level + conversion.

 

[puckhog]

@abradabra6151 between May and July did u get a new bottle of gel? Or was it the same bottle throughout?

 

[abradabra6151]

@abradabra6151 between May and July did u get a new bottle of gel? Or was it the same bottle throughout?

Good question. The bottles I got would last for one month at a time, so I certainly changed bottles once or even twice between the May and July results. They were made by a custom compounding pharmacy called Koshland. I'd hope they didn't have that degree of inconsistency in their products, but possible.

 

[abradabra6151]

HCG should raise your endo test as well. Did your e2 levels also sharply rise since adding HCG?

I was talking to a guy who has been on TRT for years and at 55 years old he is taking 500mg per week to keep his levels around 1300ng/dL. I can’t find any studies that prove out what he is saying but it would make sense your body makes less use of more test as you age. If your e2 levels are also up then yes i would assume HCG is affecting that test level + conversion.

Thanks, you can see in the results I posted above that E2 didn't go up much. I'm taking a pitiful 0.5mg Anastrozole/week and E2 is only 29.3 with Test >1500? That doesn't make sense.
I'm 28 and all these results are within the past 3 years, wouldn't expect age to play much into it for me. I guess maybe you're saying because I'm young small amounts injected are having large affects on the blood results?

 

[Spokeonawheel]

How long after injections/ applications were bloods drawn?

If you remember. This could have something to do with the differing levels.

 

[puckhog]

Good question. The bottles I got would last for one month at a time, so I certainly changed bottles once or even twice between the May and July results. They were made by a custom compounding pharmacy called Koshland. I'd hope they didn't have that degree of inconsistency in their products, but possible.

It is absolutely possible. My wife was on a compounded testosterone cream. Her bloods had been normal so she decided she wanted to try some primo and var. She got labs drawn and her test level was 1400. Scared the hell out of us. I thought she was gonna get a beard and a dick! The only logical explanation was the pharmacy messed up the script. Happens way more frequently than people realize. This week as a matter of fact I was picking up a bladder medication and they gave me Afib heart pills instead.

 

[TRT@40]

@abradabra6151 , as @testiFy mentioned, HCG raises your endogenous test as it works directly on testes to produce test. As an FYI, HCG is used as TRT mono-therapy especially when patients to keep their fertility options. I was on such therapy to begin with and my test levels rose from 200 to high 600s but estrogen skyrocketed as well as I was taking 1000ius of HCG EOD.
You could just go the HCG mono-therapy route if you are not planning on competing and are planning on having a family. Depends on your goals including long term ones. Fertility issues can be much bigger problems for AAS users than most appear to make them until one is facing them.

 

[Eman]

hcg raises your endogenous test as it works directly on testes to produce test.

Not when utilizing exogenous testosterone.

 

[Sworder]

HCG works by stimulating the testes regardless if you are using exogenous testosterone or not. That's the whole point of taking hCG while on TRT as you guys know.

The thing about hCG is that it has the ability to directly get converted to e2 via aromatase and the testosterone that the hCG creates also has the ability of course.

 

[TRT@40]

Not when utilizing exogenous testosterone.

Hi Eman, i think it should still help. When you take exogenous test, as you know, negative feedback control the hypothalamus/pituitary to stop producing LH and FSH consequently shutting down exogenous test production. Then when you add exogenous HCG, it still exerts its action to leydig cells to produce test. There is nothing stopping exogenous HCG to cause testes to produce test. This is my understanding but i can be wrong.
I dont have concrete personal data to support this. But my 2nd protocol was 100mg of exogenous test every 2 weeks while staying on 1000ius of HCG EOD. My test results came back in 700s, recalling numbers from what I can remember.

 

[abradabra6151]

How long after injections/ applications were bloods drawn?

If you remember. This could have something to do with the differing levels.

Great question.
October 2018. Blood drawn Friday at 8:45am, I believe 2 days after Test Cyp
May 2019. Blood drawn Wednesday at 11:43am, handful of hours after T gel.
July 2019. Blood drawn Tuesday morning within a half hour of T gel.
September 2019. Blood drawn Friday, 2 days after Test Cyp and hours after HCG

I got blood drawn several hours closer to T gel application in July than in May.

But in both October and September it looks like it was 2 days after Test Cyp injection. The difference is that I did an HCG injection morning of the September result.

 

[abradabra6151]

It is absolutely possible. My wife was on a compounded testosterone cream. Her bloods had been normal so she decided she wanted to try some primo and var. She got labs drawn and her test level was 1400. Scared the hell out of us. I thought she was gonna get a beard and a dick! The only logical explanation was the pharmacy messed up the script. Happens way more frequently than people realize. This week as a matter of fact I was picking up a bladder medication and they gave me Afib heart pills instead.

Haha, wow, that might help explain it.

 

[The Terminator]

First of all you didn’t need trt, your T was in the 600’s so you probably got yourself a crappy drug pushing dr. Second you’re using T so your FSH/LH will be very low, hCG has no affect on those, you’re thinking clomid or hmg. Third you’re using 1500IU of hCG that could raise your natty T, also we don’t know how far post injection the 800 test was and how far post gel application the >1500 test was. Fourth high T doesn’t always equal high libido, and 5th I’d think possible cardiovascular issues would be a bigger concern with high T levels than “receptor fatigue” whatever that is.

Not when utilizing exogenous testosterone.

Actually hCG can increase exogenous T even in the presence of TRT, but probably not quite as well as it would without trt. I can post studies if interested.

 

[Sworder]

Actually hCG can increase exogenous T even in the presence of TRT, but probably not quite as well as it would without trt. I can post studies if interested.

I fixed it for you

 

[Eman]

Actually hCG can increase exogenous T even in the presence of TRT, but probably not quite as well as it would without trt. I can post studies if interested

That would really be something... Can you actually see the testosterone vial fill up while you're pinning the hcg?

Please post the study. I imagine there would be some change with hcg and trt in conjunction with one another but it would likely be insignificant and it wouldn't be through the typical mechanism of action that increases TT from hcg.

 

[abradabra6151]

First of all you didn’t need trt, your T was in the 600’s so you probably got yourself a crappy drug pushing dr. Second you’re using T so your FSH/LH will be very low, hCG has no affect on those, you’re thinking clomid or hmg. Third you’re using 1500IU of hCG that could raise your natty T, also we don’t know how far post injection the 800 test was and how far post gel application the >1500 test was. Fourth high T doesn’t always equal high libido, and 5th I’d think possible cardiovascular issues would be a bigger concern with high T levels than “receptor fatigue” whatever that is.



Actually hCG can increase exogenous T even in the presence of TRT, but probably not quite as well as it would without trt. I can post studies if interested.

I'm not interested in TRT, I'm interested in performance enhancement. More muscle faster.

Thanks, I didn't know that taking T suppresses FSH and LH.

I mentioned above how long after application/injection the tests were:

Great question.
October 2018. Blood drawn Friday at 8:45am, I believe 2 days after Test Cyp
May 2019. Blood drawn Wednesday at 11:43am, handful of hours after T gel.
July 2019. Blood drawn Tuesday morning within a half hour of T gel.
September 2019. Blood drawn Friday, 2 days after Test Cyp and hours after HCG

I got blood drawn several hours closer to T gel application in July than in May.

But in both October and September it looks like it was 2 days after Test Cyp injection. The difference is that I did an HCG injection morning of the September result.

Do we expect changes in timing to affect results by 2x (Test Cyp) or 3x (Test gel)?

All else being equal, higher T tends to cause higher libido, leading to my question.

The basic question is if this >1500 reading is a problem and I should be aiming for something considerably lower. Decreased sensitivity by over-exposure to Testosterone is what I had in mind with "receptor fatigue." Is that not a concern?