I used to use it for a few things. Shoulder presses and shrugs. But ive started ohp now anyway
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Strength Training Thread
- Thread starter Ozzy619
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No, it's me too!
OdieM
Banned
Would someone be so kind as to lay out a strength training routine? Mainly curious if yall work the same muscle twice in one week and how you lay it out if you do.
Ozzy619
New Member
Woke up today sore as shit so took it pretty easy and worked on form. My overall strength is down a lot but coming back slowly post pct. Woke up, ate breakfast 1.5hrs preworkout and had creatine.
Started off with incline bb 2 sets of 135x10 and 1 set of 185x6 (was able to do 225 before)
Flat bench 3x10 185 2x8 225
Body weight dips 5x10
Decline cable flys(most muscular) 5x10
Triceps
KM Press 5x10 95lbs (first time doing these and liked them, killed the tris)
Skull Crushers 5x10 75lbs
Seated overhead tri extensions 3×10 100lbs
Kickbacks to failure
Started off with incline bb 2 sets of 135x10 and 1 set of 185x6 (was able to do 225 before)
Flat bench 3x10 185 2x8 225
Body weight dips 5x10
Decline cable flys(most muscular) 5x10
Triceps
KM Press 5x10 95lbs (first time doing these and liked them, killed the tris)
Skull Crushers 5x10 75lbs
Seated overhead tri extensions 3×10 100lbs
Kickbacks to failure
TyroneMoreGains
New Member
Ozzy619
New Member
My bad, its called the jm press, doc posted a vid on the horseshoe tricep thread, below this thread.
ruckin
Member
In
Very much so work the same muscles more than once. Not long ago I was doing squats, or a variant, 4x a week. Currently I have two squat days, I should also be deadlifting these days too but until my back is better I'm not doing deads, a bench day and an OHP day.
How you lay things out depends on how you want to prioritize your training, which Philosophies you follow, etc. Here's one basic method of putting together a program, what I did leading up to my meet:
Tuesday: primary deadlift, secondary squat, deadlift accessories
Thursday: primary bench press, bench and upper body accessories
Saturday: primary squat, secondary deadlift, squat accessories
Sunday: primary OHP, bench accessories, weak point work/fluff areas
Ozzy:
1) linear progression program like Texas Method by Rippetoe. Excellent program for general strength gains. Can be used for powerliftng but probably not the best for it. First time through you run the basic lifts several times a week: squat, bench, press, deadlifts, and very few others besides that. After a few cycles under your belt you can begin playing with the program and adjust to keep it working for you or to alter the training goal. You'll be in the gym 3 days a week, you might be able to get a 4th day in but it would not be a taxing day. More like GPP, conditioning work, fluff stuff, stc. A good but tough program.
2) Wendler 5/3/1: good program but progression is too slow for my tastes although there are tricks to speed it up. The average intensities worked are pretty low though. Don't mean to sound like in bashing it as it is a good program but I'm just not a staunch supporter of it and I know the least about it of all the others i mention.
3) westside....enough said. It works and it has the strongest ppl in the world using it but without a knowledgeable team and specialty equipment you won't make the most out of it. It lacks specificity and you rarely do the actual competition lifts outside of a meet. You'd be lifting 4days a week and you could add more time but conditioning wise, rehab/prehab work, MOB work, etc. Not lifting the 5th day.
4) sheiko: one of the winningest coaches in the world and coached some of the best Russian lifters ever. Well best lifters anywhere really lol. Very specific, highly detailed 3-5 days in gym depending in the cycle, and gains in strength will be bad. Good for powerlifting too. Problem is to get the most you'd need sheiko himself to tailor the program but ppl still have great success regardless. A coach is supposed to regulate the programming based on fatigue but we all can't have sheiko lol. One of my top choices for you. You'd be doing a limited variety of lifts, really the competiton lifts and their variants, with a few others thrown in.
5) DAILY UNdulating periodization: similar to what Insertnamehere is running. Very good program and another top choice. Can't go wrong with it. 3-4 lifting days a week, small lift selection but highly specific, good for PLing etc.
6) block periodization another awesome programming philosophy. Great for PL'ing. Great for strength in general too. Will allow you more lift selection and 3-4 days in gym. You go through different blocks of training. Blocks are accumulation phase, transmutation phase, and realization phase. Complicated but another top choice for you.
7) rts style programming like Mike Tuscherer does. Very auto regulatory, allows a lot of freedom. Specificity is there. Great for strength and PL'ing. Very effective.
Sorry I didn't go into as much detail as I wanted to but feel free to ask any questions or look into them more. I'll answer whatever I can. If you need help choosing we'll go from there but think it over and do some digging. If anything pops out at you as "I want to do tbat" let me know and well design something around hat philosophy for you.
1) linear progression program like Texas Method by Rippetoe. Excellent program for general strength gains. Can be used for powerliftng but probably not the best for it. First time through you run the basic lifts several times a week: squat, bench, press, deadlifts, and very few others besides that. After a few cycles under your belt you can begin playing with the program and adjust to keep it working for you or to alter the training goal. You'll be in the gym 3 days a week, you might be able to get a 4th day in but it would not be a taxing day. More like GPP, conditioning work, fluff stuff, stc. A good but tough program.
2) Wendler 5/3/1: good program but progression is too slow for my tastes although there are tricks to speed it up. The average intensities worked are pretty low though. Don't mean to sound like in bashing it as it is a good program but I'm just not a staunch supporter of it and I know the least about it of all the others i mention.
3) westside....enough said. It works and it has the strongest ppl in the world using it but without a knowledgeable team and specialty equipment you won't make the most out of it. It lacks specificity and you rarely do the actual competition lifts outside of a meet. You'd be lifting 4days a week and you could add more time but conditioning wise, rehab/prehab work, MOB work, etc. Not lifting the 5th day.
4) sheiko: one of the winningest coaches in the world and coached some of the best Russian lifters ever. Well best lifters anywhere really lol. Very specific, highly detailed 3-5 days in gym depending in the cycle, and gains in strength will be bad. Good for powerlifting too. Problem is to get the most you'd need sheiko himself to tailor the program but ppl still have great success regardless. A coach is supposed to regulate the programming based on fatigue but we all can't have sheiko lol. One of my top choices for you. You'd be doing a limited variety of lifts, really the competiton lifts and their variants, with a few others thrown in.
5) DAILY UNdulating periodization: similar to what Insertnamehere is running. Very good program and another top choice. Can't go wrong with it. 3-4 lifting days a week, small lift selection but highly specific, good for PLing etc.
6) block periodization another awesome programming philosophy. Great for PL'ing. Great for strength in general too. Will allow you more lift selection and 3-4 days in gym. You go through different blocks of training. Blocks are accumulation phase, transmutation phase, and realization phase. Complicated but another top choice for you.
7) rts style programming like Mike Tuscherer does. Very auto regulatory, allows a lot of freedom. Specificity is there. Great for strength and PL'ing. Very effective.
Sorry I didn't go into as much detail as I wanted to but feel free to ask any questions or look into them more. I'll answer whatever I can. If you need help choosing we'll go from there but think it over and do some digging. If anything pops out at you as "I want to do tbat" let me know and well design something around hat philosophy for you.
Ozzy619
New Member
Looks like I was somewhat on the right track. I notice you dont have back day, would that be on upper body accessories? Im not planning on competing so would it be possible for me to add a back day in? I see your lifts are based around the big three.
ruckin
Member
@Docd187123 question for you. Would you consider what I've been doing throughout my current cycle to sort of be block periodization? I wrote it with a kind of linear progression approach, and I've been adding weight and reps successfully each workout, but does the way I've lowered reps/volume and increased intensity every ~5 weeks technically make it block periodization?
You're ex dried selection was good for something like block periodization yes. We would need to work on the intensities and rep ranges to target strength. Once you see what your results are like with strength training, I'm betting you'll give competing a second thought lol
Yes, there's no specific back day. Or any body part day for that matter. You'd be able to add in some specific work on some of the programs listed above in the form of an extra day or weak point day but consider this:
1) my upper back absolutely BLEW THE FUCK UP on this type of programming without a specific back day. After 3months a coworker asked me what I was on only bc by upper back and shoulders blew up so quick.
2) deadlift day for example hammers your lower and upper back. Pulling, and pulling a lot, will hit this more than you think. Plus some deadlift accessories specifically target the back too.
3) bench day accessories will also involve some back work normally. Tuscherer doesn't beleive in rows and what not to help bench but others do so you could quite possibly be doing Pendlay rows and lat pull downs, horizontal rowing, stc
4) some squats, especially front squats or even back squats with some specialty bars, will also hit your back.
No, your program I would consider linear periodization.
Block periodization will typically involve the 3 phases above:
Accumulation phase: this phase can last anywhere from 2-6wks. Characterized by low intensity but high volume. Lifts are less specific to the end goal but they're not meant to be specific. This phase is to build general strength and conditioning, add mass, increase your work capacity for later on, and start loading you with fatigue. Intensities can be from 50-70% 1RM which is white low but the high volume makes up for it and allows strength and mass to be built and based around.
Transmutation phase: this phase can be 2-6wks again. Marked by slightly higher intensities with reduced volume. This phase is to take the strength and size built in accumulation and make it more specific to the end goal but also still some general work being done. Intensities range from 70 - ~90% 1RM. You will not fully recover during this phase between days. Overtraining can begin to occur here so need to lay attention to the signs.
Realization phase: this is like a leaking cycle. You take what you gained before and make it highly specific. You work with ~85-95% 1RM intensity but drastically cut volume. Lifts are highly specific and you cut everything out besides some very specific extra lifts to further the main lifts. Can last up to 6wks but normally around 4wks
What you're doing Ruck is just adding weight to the bar and changing the set and rep scheme occasion lay from what I've seen. Not sysing that's bad or wrong just not what your consider block periodization.
ruckin
Member
Ok I see. Thank you for the explanation, that was very informative!
weighted chinup
Member
@Ozzy619
I agree with Docd's recommendation here. Based on what I know of your preferences when it comes to training, I think the Sheiko templates are going to be the most enjoyable option and most productive because of that. Weekly volume is high on such routines and fatigue accumulates fast but I think you have a good understanding of how fatigue effects fitness to handle the high weekly volume / fatigue of such routines.
My other suggestion would be a routine that takes a dual factor approach but I don't know of any routines like this specifically for strength in the big 3 or PL and I don't know how to program one making use of higher intensities with any real confidence without experimenting myself first. The only thing that comes to mind is a PPL routine with moderate - high weekly volume that incorporates higher intensities instead of moderate intensities for the big 3 lifts and has scheduled deloads. Alternatively you can run such a routine but adjust weekly volume so scheduled deloading isn't necessary, but that wouldn't be my first pick if I was going to switch to strength oriented training.
Regarding number of days in the gym, It is possible to 'stretch' out a 4-5 day routine to 6 days but I definitely don't recommend this. My understanding is that adaptive response to training load would be similar as long as weekly volume remained the same if someone were to do this but there are so many other factors when working with high intensities that can affect performance and by extension your results that would make doing this undesirable.
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Ozzy619
New Member
Doc this is more than enough and exactly what I was looking for. Ive been looking online but you know how that goes, theres a million choices out there, most of which are bs. Since you actually compete, know my stats and my general range Im glad you offered your advice. Most of these programs Ive never heard of to be honest.
Right now Sheiko is my top pick, you had me at Russian. But I will look into daily undulating and block periodization as well. Ill put together a routine on here and feel free to critique whenever you have the time. I know people pay top dollar for this type of advice so know that your tims is very appreciated.
Any of you of strong guys are free to critique as well. Insertnamehere, weightchinup, brutus, rukin and anyone else I left out. Glad to see this thread is getting some action, hopefully it will be a solid base for guys interested in strength. Im going to sticky your post doc for future reference.
Ozzy619
New Member
Thanks weighted, your advice is always appreciated very knowledgeable. Im interested in the sheiko template and will most likely do it before any other routine. I can tell you that my half assed approach to strength training has already left me sore as hell so i can only imagine what a real routine will be like. I will stick to 4, maybe 5 days if Im able to keep up. I should have laid off the gym today but what can I say.
The PPL was an excellent run and I contemplated running it before starting this thread. It gave me great overall strength and I recommend It all the time. Hopefully the sheiko template can get me past a few of my plateaus. My biggest problem is getting out of the bb mindset and dropping all the accessory lifts. I did a great job recomping and losing a lot of fat with the fst 7. Now Im looking to add a little mass and man strength. Feel free to give me any advice, Ive been more of a gym rat and open to all criticisms as I progress.
Always a pleasure reading your thoughts
Dual factor can be applied to almost any training philosophy but it's already built into Sheiko, block periodization, Texas method etc. Anywhere where the workouts are periodized based on fatigue is dual factor. Sheiko does this by manipulating volume and intensity throughout the week and cycles, block periodization does this with the accumulation/transmutation/realization phases, Texas method does this through moderate volume moderate intensity day, low volume low intensity day, and low volume high intensity day etc.
It's funny how you mention fitness and fatigue lol. Coincidental actually. I'm currently in the process of writing up an article for my other board about auto regulation of training and how fitness and fatigue play into it
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