IIFYM... validity?

[NovaFlex]

I've been using MyFitnessPal since I've started seriously cutting and, although I eat a *mostly* clean diet, I'm seemingly having to fill in calories...So I take that and eat some shit I want; Ice cream or brownie or something... if It fits my calories / fats for the day, there's no problem, right? or am i missing something?

 

[D-Ballin]

As long as you're getting in a somewhat balanced diet, it works fine. Need to hit some of those micros, and a lot of evidence seems to suggest that popping your average multi isn't doing much for you.

Hell, you can cut on nothing but ice cream and whey if you can make it work. The problem is long term nutrition, obviously. Nothing wrong with treating yourself within the constraints of your normal diet though.

 

[Docd187123]

Clean is not a term that should be used for nutrition. You also can't judge a singular food item outside the context of the entire diet. By that I mean can anyone really sit there with a straight face and tell me a few scoops of ice cream or brownies is going to destroy an entire diet or physique when the majority if the food intake is whole and minimally processed foods? I'd LOVE for someone to try and discuss it scientifically bc it's pure garbage.

Anyway, I follow IIFYM but prefer to call it DCA as some know it by. It stands for discretionary calorie allowance. Basically it means get most of your macro and micro needs from whole and minimally processed foods and the remaining calories you have left to fill, fill with foods you truly enjoy. In your case this seems to be ice cream, brownies, and whatever else floats your boat. So long as your calorie and macro intake is matched to your stats and goals you will continue to make progress. If I were to list for you some of the foods I ate regularly, heck even daily, you'd tell me my diet was dirtier than a $2 Tijuana crack whore but my progress has never been better. Another thing that makes this approach so much better is that by NOT restricting foods you enjoy it makes it easier to stick to and be consistent with the diet.

You got it down pretty good and good luck with your goals.

 

[NovaFlex]

As long as you're getting in a somewhat balanced diet, it works fine. Need to hit some of those micros, and a lot of evidence seems to suggest that popping your average multi isn't doing much for you.

Hell, you can cut on nothing but ice cream and whey if you can make it work. The problem is long term nutrition, obviously. Nothing wrong with treating yourself within the constraints of your normal diet though.

yeah I'm not trying to 'diet' but rather make this my staple diet. As I said, I'm meeting my macros even without a protein shake. I eat mostly chicken and ground beef / white rice / broccoli. but after i meet my protein for the day, I've always got 500+ cals left.

what do you mean about a multi vit? that went over my head. unless you're referring to gear, sorry i didn't understand bro... As for micros, that's m next step in shaping my nutrition. i still need to learn more about them.

Clean is not a term that should be used for nutrition. You also can't judge a singular food item outside the context of the entire diet. By that I mean can anyone really sit there with a straight face and tell me a few scoops of ice cream or brownies is going to destroy an entire diet or physique when the majority if the food intake is whole and minimally processed foods? I'd LOVE for someone to try and discuss it scientifically bc it's pure garbage.

Anyway, I follow IIFYM but prefer to call it DCA as some know it by. It stands for discretionary calorie allowance. Basically it means get most of your macro and micro needs from whole and minimally processed foods and the remaining calories you have left to fill, fill with foods you truly enjoy. In your case this seems to be ice cream, brownies, and whatever else floats your boat. So long as your calorie and macro intake is matched to your stats and goals you will continue to make progress. If I were to list for you some of the foods I ate regularly, heck even daily, you'd tell me my diet was dirtier than a $2 Tijuana crack whore but my progress has never been better. Another thing that makes this approach so much better is that by NOT restricting foods you enjoy it makes it easier to stick to and be consistent with the diet.

You got it down pretty good and good luck with your goals.

This was my exact sentiments... I'm losing more bf% eating this way than i ever have on any type of 'diet'. i really don't feel like I'm dieting, just not being gluttonous... and the app helps a ton. if i hit my cals, i either do more cardio or stop eating for the day. usually after cardio I'm left with at least 500 cals left to 'use' at the end of the day.

thanks doc.

 

[Docd187123]

yeah I'm not trying to 'diet' but rather make this my staple diet. As I said, I'm meeting my macros even without a protein shake. I eat mostly chicken and ground beef / white rice / broccoli. but after i meet my protein for the day, I've always got 500+ cals left.

what do you mean about a multi vit? that went over my head. unless you're referring to gear, sorry i didn't understand bro... As for micros, that's m next step in shaping my nutrition. i still need to learn more about them.



This was my exact sentiments... I'm losing more bf% eating this way than i ever have on any type of 'diet'. i really don't feel like I'm dieting, just not being gluttonous... and the app helps a ton. if i hit my cals, i either do more cardio or stop eating for the day. usually after cardio I'm left with at least 500 cals left to 'use' at the end of the day.

thanks doc.

Sounds like you got it down pat. It's like having your cake and eating it too.....lots of it

 

[D-Ballin]

@NovaFlex merely stating that you can't live solely on McDonald's, and pop a Centrum everyday and call yourself healthy. You need to be getting nutrients from a balanced diet for long term health.

You could however, make short term body composition changes eating nothing but McDonald's. Doesn't necessarily make it healthy on the long term, but then few fad crash diets are.

 

[NovaFlex]

@NovaFlex merely stating that you can't live solely on McDonald's, and pop a Centrum everyday and call yourself healthy. You need to be getting nutrients from a balanced diet for long term health.

You could however, make short term body composition changes eating nothing but McDonald's. Doesn't necessarily make it healthy on the long term, but then few fad crash diets are.

ohh, yeah... i see what you're saying.

 

[RodgerThat]

If your interested in this kind of thing look up Layne Norton he's pretty much the leading expert in dieting and nutrition as far as IIFYM or DCA goes. He's got incredible programs outlined and always writes intelligent articles with supporting data for these things. He also is funny to follow on Instagram because he reams out the CLEAN EATING type of person quite a bit.

 

[NovaFlex]

Good deal, @RodgerThat. Thanks

 

[Janoy crevesa]

The problem with iifym is
1. Satiety
2. Water retention
3. Blood sugar spiked/crashes causing hunger and problems like that which can effect diet adherence.
4. Micro nutrients
5. Stable energy (kinda goes with 3)

Manage those problems by getting your veggies in, eating all simple sugars with fiber to slow digestion, and not going overboard on those treats.

 

[Docd187123]

The problem with iifym is
1. Satiety
2. Water retention
3. Blood sugar spiked/crashes causing hunger and problems like that which can effect diet adherence.
4. Micro nutrients
5. Stable energy (kinda goes with 3)

Manage those problems by getting your veggies in, eating all simple sugars with fiber to slow digestion, and not going overboard on those treats.

1) please explain to me how foods YOU choose to eat are responsible for creating a problem with satiety.
2) please explain to me how IIFYM is responsible for water retention.
3) low blood sugar is associated with increased hunger, not the spikes and crashes. Blood sugar isn't even the only thing that regulates hunger. There are hormones such as leptin and ghrelin that have a much more profound effect. And who eats just carbs without any fiber, protein, or dietary fat ALL of which reduce the glycemic load of a meal that contains a high GI carb?
4) how is IIFYM responsible for micronutrient deficiency when you are the one choosing the diet.
5) please explain how IIFYM is responsible for lack of stability in energy levels

 

[NovaFlex]

cut my cals down from 2600 to 2100. Im coming close to meeting my daily goals and don't feel the need to 'fill in' at the end of the day.

it's all mental.

 

[Janoy crevesa]

1) please explain to me how foods YOU choose to eat are responsible for creating a problem with satiety.
2) please explain to me how IIFYM is responsible for water retention.
3) low blood sugar is associated with increased hunger, not the spikes and crashes. Blood sugar isn't even the only thing that regulates hunger. There are hormones such as leptin and ghrelin that have a much more profound effect. And who eats just carbs without any fiber, protein, or dietary fat ALL of which reduce the glycemic load of a meal that contains a high GI carb?
4) how is IIFYM responsible for micronutrient deficiency when you are the one choosing the diet.
5) please explain how IIFYM is responsible for lack of stability in energy levels

what? dude youre just trying to be difficult. You know the answers to all the above.
Satiety? say I decide to eat a pint of ben and jerrys vs a head of broccoli and low fat ranch. Which one will fill you up more?

Water retention... Go eat some Chinese food vs a salad with grilled chicken.

Blood sugar spike? Go eat a pack of oreos and then tell me you don't crave more after.

Deficiency? What if I decide to not eat any omegas or anything? usually deficiency isn't a problem anyways though. Once you get to low enough calories, maybe.

Lack of stable energy levels??? sweet potato, slow digestion vs wake up and eat a doughnut with a protein shake. Tell me which sustains you better.

 

[Docd187123]

what? dude youre just trying to be difficult.

Hardly, I'm just pointing out that you're misplacing the blame.

You know the answers to all the above.
Satiety? say I decide to eat a pint of ben and jerrys vs a head of broccoli and low fat ranch. Which one will fill you up more?

Hmmmm. This one is a tough one. You stumped me but Let's do the math anyway:

1pint of BnJ ice cream, which is 2cups, averages around 1000cal of which roughly 675 of those calories come from dietary fat and protein (about 60g fat and 12g protein) which happen to be the two MOST satiating macros out of the three.

2 cups of broccoli contains a WHOPPING 60cals of which 48 cals come from fat and protein (0g fat and 12g protein). You also have 5g of fiber. Let's say about 5tbsp of low fat ranch which will add 150cals, negligible protein, negligible fiber, and 60g of fat.

So you tell me, what's more filling, 1000calories or 210 calories? Yea, I thought so too. Let's not even go down the road of which one tastes better bc you'll be disappointed yet again.

Water retention... Go eat some Chinese food vs a salad with grilled chicken.

I eat Chinese food 2-3x a week and get no/minimal bloat from it, the same as I do when I eat a salad with grilled chicken. Why is that inquisitive minds want to know? Bc it's not total sodium intake that bloats but significant fluctuations in sodium intake.

Blood sugar spike? Go eat a pack of oreos and then tell me you don't crave more after.

I'm perfectly capable of eating just 1 Oreo, 2 Oreos, 5oreos, 50oreos, or a pack of Oreos and not eat more after. Give me a hamburger, bacon, or chicken cutlet and you bet your ass I'll be craving more.

Deficiency? What if I decide to not eat any omegas or anything?

Then you'd be an idiot.... That's a problem with you, your parents, or your education, not the diet.

You're telling me you can't eat beef, eggs, nuts, fish, or take an omega/fish oil supplement while on IIFYM? Bc if so, then you'd be talking about some other diet and not IIFYM.

It's also funny bc IIFYM doesn't tell you what you can and cannot eat only "clean" dieting or celebrity fad diets do that. But even so, IIFYM suggests roughly 80% of your diet come from whole and minimally process foods and the remaining roughly 20% come from other foods you enjoy. Did you forget that tidbit of never learn about it bc you're operating under the false assumption that IIFYM has to be all junk food from the looks of it.

usually deficiency isn't a problem anyways though. Once you get to low enough calories, maybe.

You said it yourself, deficiency isn't usually a problem unless calories are restricted or food choices are very few....which happens to be the case with the typical "clean" chicken and broccoli or fish and rice cakes 6x a day BB diet ironically.

Lack of stable energy levels??? sweet potato, slow digestion vs wake up and eat a doughnut with a protein shake. Tell me which sustains you better.

I can't fucking stand sweet potatoes in most ways they're cooked. That would be a SHITTY diet for me. On the other hand, I do wake up and have a protein shake, cup of coffee, and either a cinnamon bun or honey bun for bfast quite frequently (especially considering I don't eat bfast all that much). I also get shitty sleep and average around maybe 4hrs a night oftentimes waking up a few times during those 4hrs, work an extremely physically demanding job for 8-12+hrs a day and manage 3-4 training sessions a week with volumes and intensities I'm more than happy to wager are well above what you do. My energy levels are perfectly fine thank you very much and I am sustained each and every day.

in each and every one of those cases the blame lays on the person who made those food choices not the diet itself as I've already said.

 

[rigs03]

IIFYM works great for me when cutting. I can get shredded eating whatever I want. When I'm bulking I try to go a little cleaner , because being in a surplus I'm more conscious with what I'm eating whether it matters or not

 

[Janoy crevesa]

Hardly, I'm just pointing out that you're misplacing the blame.



Hmmmm. This one is a tough one. You stumped me but Let's do the math anyway:

1pint of BnJ ice cream, which is 2cups, averages around 1000cal of which roughly 675 of those calories come from dietary fat and protein (about 60g fat and 12g protein) which happen to be the two MOST satiating macros out of the three.

2 cups of broccoli contains a WHOPPING 60cals of which 48 cals come from fat and protein (0g fat and 12g protein). You also have 5g of fiber. Let's say about 5tbsp of low fat ranch which will add 150cals, negligible protein, negligible fiber, and 60g of fat.

So you tell me, what's more filling, 1000calories or 210 calories? Yea, I thought so too. Let's not even go down the road of which one tastes better bc you'll be disappointed yet again.



I eat Chinese food 2-3x a week and get no/minimal bloat from it, the same as I do when I eat a salad with grilled chicken. Why is that inquisitive minds want to know? Bc it's not total sodium intake that bloats but significant fluctuations in sodium intake.



I'm perfectly capable of eating just 1 Oreo, 2 Oreos, 5oreos, 50oreos, or a pack of Oreos and not eat more after. Give me a hamburger, bacon, or chicken cutlet and you bet your ass I'll be craving more.



Then you'd be an idiot.... That's a problem with you, your parents, or your education, not the diet.

You're telling me you can't eat beef, eggs, nuts, fish, or take an omega/fish oil supplement while on IIFYM? Bc if so, then you'd be talking about some other diet and not IIFYM.

It's also funny bc IIFYM doesn't tell you what you can and cannot eat only "clean" dieting or celebrity fad diets do that. But even so, IIFYM suggests roughly 80% of your diet come from whole and minimally process foods and the remaining roughly 20% come from other foods you enjoy. Did you forget that tidbit of never learn about it bc you're operating under the false assumption that IIFYM has to be all junk food from the looks of it.



You said it yourself, deficiency isn't usually a problem unless calories are restricted or food choices are very few....which happens to be the case with the typical "clean" chicken and broccoli or fish and rice cakes 6x a day BB diet ironically.



I can't fucking stand sweet potatoes in most ways they're cooked. That would be a SHITTY diet for me. On the other hand, I do wake up and have a protein shake, cup of coffee, and either a cinnamon bun or honey bun for bfast quite frequently (especially considering I don't eat bfast all that much). I also get shitty sleep and average around maybe 4hrs a night oftentimes waking up a few times during those 4hrs, work an extremely physically demanding job for 8-12+hrs a day and manage 3-4 training sessions a week with volumes and intensities I'm more than happy to wager are well above what you do. My energy levels are perfectly fine thank you very much and I am sustained each and every day.

in each and every one of those cases the blame lays on the person who made those food choices not the diet itself as I've already said.

I think you're getting the wrong idea though. I'm not a bro who eats chicken and rice and broccoli. In fact I eat all kinds of shit. I'm just saying if I ate less veggies than I do, then I would walk around hungry a lot. You're right and I agree on a lot of what you're saying such as sodium and stuff. Basically iifym is fine as long as you have even a little common sense.

 

[Demondosage]

Man, I'm so sick and tired of hearing this IIFYM bullshit. Let's call it for what it is; a diet for people who can't go as hard as committed guys. I'd love to go to a bodybuilding event and take a survey on how many guys did that for competition prep. I bet my answer would be ZERO. And when you're starving from a diet, it's kind of hard to eat just 1 brownie. I'd rather go clean all week and just have 1 cheat meal or maybe a "free day" and then get right back hard on it. IIFYM is just giving everyone what they want and that is an easier way out.

No disrespect to anyone who utilizes this type of eating and still gets results, but IMO it's for pussies.

 

[Janoy crevesa]

Man, I'm so sick and tired of hearing this IIFYM bullshit. Let's call it for what it is; a diet for people who can't go as hard as committed guys. I'd love to go to a bodybuilding event and take a survey on how many guys did that for competition prep. I bet my answer would be ZERO. And when you're starving from a diet, it's kind of hard to eat just 1 brownie. I'd rather go clean all week and just have 1 cheat meal or maybe a "free day" and then get right back hard on it. IIFYM is just giving everyone what they want and that is an easier way out.

No disrespect to anyone who utilizes this type of eating and still gets results, but IMO it's for pussies.

I feel like it's an excuse for people to make the poor food decision. It justifies it. If I try to fit junk food in my diet I end up hungry later, not getting enough fiber or protein, too much fat or something. Honestly I rather have carrots dipped in pb2 peanutbutter powder, broccoli dipped in Greek yogurt dressing, or apples vs some candy. Iifym and junk food may work for people not lean, but when you start getting sub 10%, you have to employ all methods just to stay satisfied, have decent energy, and keep the fat burning.

 

[Docd187123]

Man, I'm so sick and tired of hearing this IIFYM bullshit. Let's call it for what it is; a diet for people who can't go as hard as committed guys. I'd love to go to a bodybuilding event and take a survey on how many guys did that for competition prep. I bet my answer would be ZERO. And when you're starving from a diet, it's kind of hard to eat just 1 brownie. I'd rather go clean all week and just have 1 cheat meal or maybe a "free day" and then get right back hard on it. IIFYM is just giving everyone what they want and that is an easier way out.

No disrespect to anyone who utilizes this type of eating and still gets results, but IMO it's for pussies.

And fortunately for us your bet would be wrong. As I've said plenty of times, a buddy won his pro card and was eating brownies and ice cream up until 4wks out from the meet and he wasn't the only one there who placed well and was eating "junk" well into contest prep. You're lucky you didn't bet anything more than just your reputation

I laugh at the commitment aspect. I mean if you want to call an eating disorder "commitment" so be it but there are mental health professionals who get laid lots of money to treat ppl like that.

 

[Demondosage]

And fortunately for us your bet would be wrong. As I've said plenty of times, a buddy won his pro card and was eating brownies and ice cream up until 4wks out from the meet and he wasn't the only one there who placed well and was eating "junk" well into contest prep. You're lucky you didn't bet anything more than just your reputation

I laugh at the commitment aspect. I mean if you want to call an eating disorder "commitment" so be it but there are mental health professionals who get laid lots of money to treat ppl like that.

It's not an eating disorder, it's dedication. IIFYM is an excuse to eat dirtier foods for people who aren't as disciplined with their diet.

Most Docs are fat fucks anyways, especially mental professionals