MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

Injecting hgh post workout?

ChestRockwell said:
Perhaps you can provide some more insight as to what your goals are with using GH and what your complete hormone stack looks like...?

Without either of these two pieces of info, it is nearly impossible to come up with an answer for you....
Click to expand...
My primary goal is lean muscle growth, long term. I plan to be running the gh for about 12 months, so I don't have the entire hormone stack laid out for you. At the moment, I've just entered a cruise so test is only 250mg per week , the next cycle I plan to use Tren most likely as I respond very well to it with minimal sides. I follow a clean diet year round, just more food of course while growing. I want to (over the long term) increase my lean body mass by approximately 35lbs. I'm not anticipating that happening in just a year or two, this is a marathon not a sprint.
 
weighted chinup said:
Thank you again. Would you recommend this protocol for an off-season athlete looking to utilize GH to improve body composition via increased lipolysis as they continue to go up in scale weight, or would you limit this protocol to athletes that are in prep or dieting down?

The reason I ask is because many athletes including myself will have a hard time getting in the calories needed to grow if there is a 3-5 period of fasting in the day. Would you advise against this protocol in off-season athletes?

Also, do you feel the efficacy of this protocol will be blunted if the athlete is in a caloric surplus?
Click to expand...

The beauty of GH is that even if you don't follow dosing protocols strictly for lipolysis, there are many secondary characteristics that will still allow the individual to go through what most refer to as a recomp.

First, it is one of the few compounds that truly impacts BMR (increases it). It also has the ability to shift the body's fuel preference in a way that fat substrates are oxidized and glycogen is shuttled to glycogen stores (yes I very much over-simplified this).

weighted chinup said:
I realize I'm pushing it with the direct questions on protocol since coaches don't always want to publicly reveal their methodology in exact detail, so anything you don't feel like disclosing outside of your clients, I fully understand. I appreciate the very detailed responses you've been providing on this board when it comes to GH though.
Click to expand...

No worries, my friend. As you said, this is a very complicated topic that I've spent quite a few years tweaking, but I have no problems speaking to the higher level stuff :)
 
Evom1 said:
My primary goal is lean muscle growth, long term. I plan to be running the gh for about 12 months, so I don't have the entire hormone stack laid out for you. At the moment, I've just entered a cruise so test is only 250mg per week , the next cycle I plan to use Tren most likely as I respond very well to it with minimal sides. I follow a clean diet year round, just more food of course while growing. I want to (over the long term) increase my lean body mass by approximately 35lbs. I'm not anticipating that happening in just a year or two, this is a marathon not a sprint.
Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to elaborate, and I really enjoyed reading the mindset - you get it.

Now, couple of pro-tips:
- Understand that GH is not anabolic, however it does have a great synergy with testosterone (and AAS in general)
- Because of this, getting it into the blood is much more important than trying to stress over acute timing (e.g. you won't see significant differences in hypertrophy by injecting at certain times of the day).

Now, with that said, here is my advice - inject your GH 45-60 minutes pre-workout. This allows serum GH to be maximized during, and shortly after your training session. This has numerous secondary benefits.

If you want to obtain lean mass by 35 pounds (depending on your starting point), you are going to very likely have to leverage somewhat higher GH doses alongside an aggressive AAS stack. You also may want to consider exogenous insulin, depending on development level, as this is arguably the single greatest combination for hypertrophy potential.
 
Roger rabbit said:
@mands
Click to expand...
Send to



J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1990 Jan;70(1):207-14.
Evening versus morning injections of growth hormone (GH) in GH-deficient patients: effects on 24-hour patterns of circulating hormones and metabolites.
Jørgensen JO1, Møller N, Lauritzen T, Alberti KG, Orskov H, Christiansen JS.
Author information

Abstract
Since serum GH in normal subjects displays a circadian variation with a major and consistent surge after the onset of sleep we examined whether the time of GH administration in GH-deficient patients had any impact on its action. Eight GH-deficient patients all underwent 3 4-week study schedules in random order: 1) evening (2000 h) sc GH injections, 2) morning (0800 h) sc GH injections, and 3) no GH administration. At the end of each period the patients were admitted to hospital for 24-h measurements of hormones and metabolites. For comparison, 10 age- and sex-matched healthy untreated subjects were hospitalized once under identical conditions. Mean (+/- SE) GH availability, i.e. the area under the curve (AUC; micrograms per L/12 h) for 12 h after injection was significantly greater after evening injection than after morning injections [83.3 +/- 25.4 (evening) vs. 46.0 +/- 10.6 (morning); P less than 0.01]. This might be due to higher skin and sc temperatures when in bed. The 2000-0800 h AUC after evening injection was similar to the corresponding AUC in the reference group. Mean 24-h serum insulin-like growth factor-I levels (micrograms per L) were similar after evening (189.8 +/- 2) and morning (179.5 +/- 5.3) injections (P = 0.8), but the latter displayed a circadian variation suggesting that a steady state had not been reached. Both were significantly lower than the stable reference value (248.4 +/- 3.6 micrograms/L). Blood glucose profiles after morning and evening GH did not differ from that of the reference group, whereas blood glucose decreased when the patients received no GH (P less than 0.01). Daytime (0800-2400 h) insulin levels were increased after morning injections (P less than 0.05). Nighttime levels of lipid intermediates were below normal in the untreated state and after morning injection (P less than 0.05), whereas nighttime blood alanine tended to be above normal after morning GH injection (P = 0.08). Highly significant inverse relationships between circadian lipid intermediates and both blood alanine and lactate concentrations were observed in the reference group and in the patients after evening injections. These relationships disappeared after morning injections. We conclude that the metabolic effects of sc GH injections are clearly influenced by the time of administration and that the closest similarity to normal hormone and metabolite patterns and relationships is reached by GH injection in the evening in GH-deficient patients.

PMID:

2294131

DOI:

10.1210/jcem-70-1-207
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Now I know I have read somewhere for defecient GH patients that GHRH daily doses are more efficeint that nightly doses. I'm still trying to find a study for you on the pulses vs. nightly dose of GH.

mands
 
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ProfessorX said:
recommended by Pfizer/Lilly etc (bed-time dose)

This is because it is approved by the FDA for deficiency purposes


HRT Clinic:

For those that are between their late 20’s and early 50’s, there is still a reasonable chance that your own endogenous production of hGH is still at a reasonable level. For this age group the best time to inject would be early morning ….

For those younger than mid-fifties, taking your hGH right before bed is going to end up creating a negative feedback loop, robbing you of your body’s own nightly pulse of hGH.

I believe DR. Jim posted some studies on this

Timing of injection is important for a stable IGF1 elevation to utilize both Endo/exo GH

Also, IGF1 elevates quickly.......doesn't take weeks


But I agree with you......it's about elevating IGF1 (anti-aging /bodybuilding)

So doing blood work to monitor your progress is a must
Click to expand...
I would be hesitant to get any info like the info I have highlighted above from any clinic or site selling GH or it's services.

mands
 
"We conclude that the metabolic effects of sc GH injections are clearly influenced by the time of administration and that the closest similarity to normal hormone and metabolite patterns and relationships is reached by GH injection in the evening in GH-deficient patients."


Thanks Mands

I value your opinion and insight

Look forward to your blood work postings and more GH analysis results

Thanks brutha
 
mands said:
I would be hesitant to get any info like the info I have highlighted above from any clinic or site selling GH or it's services.

mands
Click to expand...

This info is similar to HRT Info.....GenSci JINTROPIN Pamphlet:

041M2009 JTPN (SOMATROPINA Solución)
Hecho por:
GeneScience Pharmaceuticals Co, Ltd.
Marca Registrada: 04M2009 SSA IV

LENGTH OF USE

Growth Hormone will not elicit an immediate result. It must be administered for a minimum of 2 or 3 months consistently before you will feel and notice any results. The closely matched compounds of JTPN hGH to human produced hGH allows quicker achieved results than similar hGH brands or products. REMEMBER If you cannot discipline yourself to a consistent administrative therapy of JTPN Growth Hormone for at least 4 months, then do not waste your time or money.
• Result of well being, some lipolysis, improved skin appearance: 2iu daily
• Moderate lipolysis, better sleep, more energy: 3iu daily
• Begin to see fullness in the muscle, advanced lipolysis: 4iu daily
• Muscular hypertrophy: 5iu daily
Growth Hormone is indeed a long term investment that cannot be done half-hearted to see results.

DOSAGE

It is important to figure the dosing. First an insulin needle 1cc or similar should be used. The standard dosing pattern at the beginning of any JTPN™ hGH therapy is as follows.
- 4IU per day (2IU in the morning and 2IU in late afternoon) for bodybuilding purposes
- 2IU per day for anti aging purposes
- 8IU per day to treat severe burns, cuts, bone damage (short period of time)
- doctor and blood tests determine the dose for any other therapy
DO NOT EVER USE BEFORE GOING TO BED...

WHEN TO TAKE

The natural Growth Hormone levels in our body are the highest two hours after sleep and lowest in the morning. Since it would be a good idea to make the best of both natural and exogenous Growth Hormone, it is best to take half in the morning once you wake up and the other half between post workout and sleep. The second best would be to take it all in the morning .
Never take Growth Hormone close to bedtime as this will eventually downgrade the natural productions. We want to take advantage of the Growth Hormone all that we can.

I'm assuming not taking night time dose refers to someone with normal pituitary function as I've mentioned before.....basically like the study you posted for GH Deficiency night time dosing mimicking GH release (REM sleep)

Someone with an IGF1 @ 90 would benefit a bedtime dose (Mimicking natural night time GH Release)

Jim posted a study aswell (I don't have the link)

This is how I've always understood it, and have been told by my HRT Doctor (prescribed Sandoz Omnitrope since 2007)
 
Last edited:
ProfessorX said:
This info is similar to HRT Info.....GenSci JINTROPIN Pamphlet:

041M2009 JTPN (SOMATROPINA Solución)
Hecho por:
GeneScience Pharmaceuticals Co, Ltd.
Marca Registrada: 04M2009 SSA IV

LENGTH OF USE

Growth Hormone will not elicit an immediate result. It must be administered for a minimum of 2 or 3 months consistently before you will feel and notice any results. The closely matched compounds of JTPN hGH to human produced hGH allows quicker achieved results than similar hGH brands or products. REMEMBER If you cannot discipline yourself to a consistent administrative therapy of JTPN Growth Hormone for at least 4 months, then do not waste your time or money.
• Result of well being, some lipolysis, improved skin appearance: 2iu daily
• Moderate lipolysis, better sleep, more energy: 3iu daily
• Begin to see fullness in the muscle, advanced lipolysis: 4iu daily
• Muscular hypertrophy: 5iu daily
Growth Hormone is indeed a long term investment that cannot be done half-hearted to see results.

DOSAGE

It is important to figure the dosing. First an insulin needle 1cc or similar should be used. The standard dosing pattern at the beginning of any JTPN™ hGH therapy is as follows.
- 4IU per day (2IU in the morning and 2IU in late afternoon) for bodybuilding purposes
- 2IU per day for anti aging purposes
- 8IU per day to treat severe burns, cuts, bone damage (short period of time)
- doctor and blood tests determine the dose for any other therapy
DO NOT EVER USE BEFORE GOING TO BED...

WHEN TO TAKE

The natural Growth Hormone levels in our body are the highest two hours after sleep and lowest in the morning. Since it would be a good idea to make the best of both natural and exogenous Growth Hormone, it is best to take half in the morning once you wake up and the other half between post workout and sleep. The second best would be to take it all in the morning .
Never take Growth Hormone close to bedtime as this will eventually downgrade the natural productions. We want to take advantage of the Growth Hormone all that we can.

I'm assuming not taking night time dose refers to someone with normal pituitary function as I've mentioned before.....basically like the study you posted for GH Deficiency night time dosing mimicking GH release (REM sleep)

Someone with an IGF1 @ 90 would benefit a bedtime dose (Mimicking natural night time GH Release)

Jim posted a study aswell (I don't have the link)

This is how I've always understood it, and have been told by my HRT Doctor (prescribed Sandoz Omnitrope since 2007)
Click to expand...
Why would the manufacture of GH be referencing taking GH post workout and how to use when body building? GH is made for AIDS patients or other muslce wasting diseases, burn victims, GH deficeint children and adults?

Something seems a little off. I will do a little research on this phamplet from Jintropin. If I had to guess I imagine it came from the site that was selling Jintropin.

Thanks for sharing.

mands
 
mands said:
Why would the manufacture of GH be referencing taking GH post workout and how to use when body building? GH is made for AIDS patients or other muslce wasting diseases, burn victims, GH deficeint children and adults?

Something seems a little off. I will do a little research on this phamplet from Jintropin. If I had to guess I imagine it came from the site that was selling Jintropin.

Thanks for sharing.

mands
Click to expand...


Link:
JTPN Somatropina

The GenSci website (Chinese version) has some similar info also....

Again......just sharing some info.....appreciate any feedback.

I'm always willing to learn more
 
I'd love to get some definitive answers on this subject. I'll take the GH whenever it'll do the most good. I just can't get on board with the hassle of taking it multiple time a day unless I see some actual proof it makes a difference.

There are so many variables to consider. Unless I'm running insulin with it I haven't seen anything that is proof positive that nightly doses are bad or not as effective.
 
Lol, you ain't kiddn

That's why I posted some of this info up for Mands to look at

I do appreciate the Medical
Studies being posted....but appreciate even more the "real world" experience, blood work, etc that he is doing

Looks like Sampei is getting very good results with his p.m. dosing

I've experimented with different protocols and blood work to follow up

I've always come back to a simple a.m. dose

But that's just me

Recently dropped GH completely and started using IGF1 LR3

Lots of different protocols with that one also
 
Last edited:
ProfessorX said:
Lol, you ain't kiddn

That's why I posted some of this info up for Mands to look at

I do appreciate the Medical
Studies being posted....but appreciate even more the "real world" experience, blood work, etc that he is doing

Looks like Sampei is getting very good results with his p.m. dosing

I've experimented with different protocols and blood work to follow up

I've always come back to a.m. dosing

But that's just me

Recently dropped GH completely and started using IGF1 LR3

Lots of different protocols with that one also
Click to expand...
I have felt best on am 50% dose, mid-day/pre workout 50% dose. I do 4.5iu each time.

My hands hurt a bit, but NOTHING like slamming all 9ius at once in the AM.
 
fodsod said:
I'd love to get some definitive answers on this subject. I'll take the GH whenever it'll do the most good. I just can't get on board with the hassle of taking it multiple time a day unless I see some actual proof it makes a difference.

There are so many variables to consider. Unless I'm running insulin with it I haven't seen anything that is proof positive that nightly doses are bad or not as effective.
Click to expand...
I've ran it every way mentioned and I feel like for me anyways running one shot at night is the most beneficial.

I hope to have some numbers soon.

mands
 
I'll try again only one dose AM. 5IU ED and will get bloods and report my impression.

I don't think it will change much but who knows! Problem is I have always used grey top and now I'm starting black top so the increase in IU (black top are overdosed) could skew the impression/results
 
I'm in agreement with @mands at this point and have not seen any results that proved there was any benefit in dosing other than at night for myself but I'm always up to learn better protocols that are proven.

I might try the AM dosing and pre-work out when I go up from 5iu to 10iu ED shortly.
 
Sampei said:
I'll try again only one dose AM. 5IU ED and will get bloods and report my impression.

I don't think it will change much but who knows! Problem is I have always used grey top and now I'm starting black top so the increase in IU (black top are overdosed) could skew the impression/results
Click to expand...


Why change it if you feel it's working for you

An A.M. dose will probably yield a similar IGF1 as your P.M. dose

The information I posted is stating that someone with a normal pituitary function would benefit from an a.m. dose

Someone with a normal pituitary function doing a continuous p.m. dose could down grade their natural production (natural pulse release).....hence, eventually a lower IGF1 serum (Dr. Jim posted a medical study about this I beieve)

Doesn't seem to apply to you now......but checking your IGF1 a month or two from now might be helpful

Someone like Mands (age - low IGF1) would benefit from a p.m. dose (according to the info I posted) which is the protocol he is using

The information I posted also mentions splitting higher doses like WUNDERPUS stated

Everyone seems to have their own "favorite" protocol

I guess blood work is the key to finding what best works for you
 
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