MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Effect of HGH and peptides on people past their prime
- Thread starter DragoT
- Start date
When comes to BF%, I do in-home measurements with help of my wife in the first week of every month using calipers. There is cool free software we use. While we are not Pro's when comes to using caliper, as the other methods it is good for monitoring trends. And, i do believe this is the most accurate non-scientific (DEXA or water displacement) method.
For example, this is the trend for "Jackson - Pollock 3-site Male" which I was doing my self
and 7 points as well
Not sure why the last number (9.9%) was not recorded, but 10.1% is pretty close.
Now, about AI... My very first comprehensive blood test showed Total T in the low "normal" range, Free T below the normal, and E2 came HIGH. Started TRT along with 0.25mg AI the day of the T shot. Must note - I personally learned to recognize low/high E2 symptoms the hard way - by playing Russian roulette with AI. On 0.25mg (on 50mg T), E2 stayed around 24-25 (8-35) and I felt the wanders of TRT couple of months after starting it. At that point BF was dropping rapidly. Then, as novice, I was like... hmm, let me pop .5mg to see what happens. In few weeks I was depressed, literally suicidal, weak erections (libido was sort of "there", but could not materialize), ran to the lab - 7 (8-35). At that point BF was around 13-14%. Tried to be smart ass and make "informed decision" - low BF = less aromatic receptors hence with my "maintenance Test C dose I probably don't need AI anymore". For months I felt just fine, then... Pimples on my back, nipples hurt in the shower, I am chocking up on TV commercials for homeless animals or Somali kids starving... Well, E2 - 54(8-35) (on 10.1% BF...
I am back on 0.25mg and will monitor it very closely, no matter the cost!
What I am trying to say - regardless of the method one use when taking steroids or peptides (MD controlled or self medicated), regular testing and evaluation of the current state of affairs is as much crucial as the substances it self (in terms of purity, legitimacy, quantity etc). It is not easy nor cheap, but... We owe to our self.
Attachments
I could not convince him to prescribe HCG to begin with, for off-label use. I still do ~700IU per week to (allegedly) prevent testicular shrinkage with not exactly satisfactory result. Yes, HCG is from the same source I get GH, passes the pregnancy test so I have no reason to doubt it is real. I might stop HCG administration completely for a month or two to see if the "boys" will disappear. At 55 I am not sure what is better - to have ball to the knees or no balls at all...
As for Increlex... The dude said he might be interested in private dinner or so to "tell me everything you do - I might try it". He is 63. Perhaps this will be a good time to raise the question, but I personally have doubts he will risk his license at the end of his carrier.
On another note, let me ask my supplier, although there is something else. I do believe while IGF-1 is a good indicator if GH therapy is working
, HGH also stimulates other growth factors production besides IGF-1 and targeting high levels of IGF-1 alone could somewhat rob the body of other essentials, especially when the goal is anti-aging and not necessarily rapid muscle growth.I will get back with y'all.
The real issue would be getting your insurance to cover the Increlex. I had my doc buddy write me a script for Serostim, that wasn't the issue. The issue was the cost at the pharmacy, as my insurance rejected it entirely... I'm sure the same will/would occur with Increlex.I could not convince him to prescribe HCG to begin with, for off-label use. I still do ~700IU per week to (allegedly) prevent testicular shrinkage with not exactly satisfactory result. Yes, HCG is from the same source I get GH, passes the pregnancy test so I have no reason to doubt it is real. I might stop HCG administration completely for a month or two to see if the "boys" will disappear. At 55 I am not sure what is better - to have ball to the knees or no balls at all...
As for Increlex... The dude said he might be interested in private dinner or so to "tell me everything you do - I might try it". He is 63. Perhaps this will be a good time to raise the question, but I personally have doubts he will risk his license at the end of his carrier.
On another note, let me ask my supplier, although there is something else. I do believe while IGF-1 is a good indicator if GH therapy is working
I will get back with y'all.
GH therapy seems to almost ALWAYS be the better approach than IGF-1 therapy, especially for anti-aging. If you were a child dwarf, maybe IGF-1 would be worth considering. I prefer the other ancillary benefits that you mention, as well as letting my own liver produce IGF-1.
As far as HCG, you pretty much KNOW when it's working, as your testicles will remain full and swollen. For me, they hurt if I take more than 1500 units per week. Mind if I ask why you care about the aesthetics of your testicles? I could care less, personally about my own.
Ha ha, good question. I am not really sure. That is - I am not really sure why I've got hair transplant either after 15 years of total baldness. I guess the transition from "Thinking about end or file" to "Let's have a threesome again" due to the the life changing events in the past 16 months is playing mind tricks.
Wow, just saw the list price of Increlex. Ugh, I doubt it worth the effort...
99.9999% of users agree with you on the price. I know there is a supplier of it in Europe, some BB'ers refer to him as "Mr. Increlex"... However, the cost of the product is absurd....
Naugahyde
Member
Id stick with the GH over Igf/Increlex, it has a broader spectrum of positive hormonal effects rather than just functioning as a turbo/ supercharger targeting muscle & cellular growth.I could not convince him to prescribe HCG to begin with, for off-label use. I still do ~700IU per week to (allegedly) prevent testicular shrinkage with not exactly satisfactory result. Yes, HCG is from the same source I get GH, passes the pregnancy test so I have no reason to doubt it is real. I might stop HCG administration completely for a month or two to see if the "boys" will disappear. At 55 I am not sure what is better - to have ball to the knees or no balls at all...
As for Increlex... The dude said he might be interested in private dinner or so to "tell me everything you do - I might try it". He is 63. Perhaps this will be a good time to raise the question, but I personally have doubts he will risk his license at the end of his carrier.
On another note, let me ask my supplier, although there is something else. I do believe while IGF-1 is a good indicator if GH therapy is working
I will get back with y'all.
As we grow older, the odds of developing the Big C increase - we don't want to shorten those particular odds...
Drago any tips on how to gauge yoir estrogen? whether its high or low? im on 125mg test e a week and feel like shit. I take .5mg day of shot and .25mg e2d. My BF is high and Im in Australia where the doctors are pretty mich against TRT. Luckily my endo is okay but has no knowledge of estrogen issues so I pay fir private labs to have it checked out. A lot of ppl say my AI is too high but recent bloods showed an estrogen level of 75. In Australia its measured differently anything less than 160 is normal, I need to find the sweetspot.
You need to measure e2/estradiol. Not total estrogens
tenpoundsleft
Member
High BF makes it much worse - when you get BF below 18% or so, you'll aromatize far less. Get your diet on point ASAP and get the BF under control - that'll help your E2 as well.
The readings I have gotten are estradiol sorry should have pointed that out
I hear you, thanks mate definitely have diet on point and when I am training I do well. Its the days I feel like shit that are the hardest. I am also on cortisol due to low cortisol levels but ACTH is fine so thats another piece to the puzzle. I found a way to convert my estrogen reading to US ranges and 74 and 76 estradiol Australian is roughly 20 in the USA measurement. So my E2 is normal but something else has to be off for me to feel this bad. I have also recently been put on modafinil for energy and focus so surprised I feel this tired..
As @Just Fish said - we (male) care about Estradiol (E2) levels. Furthermore, it is mandatory that E2 is measured via "sensitive assay" method, at least what is highly recommended on TRT forums. I have never quite subscribed to that since the only difference between "regular" and "sensitive" is... the latter have lower detectable limit (3 pg/ml) which would be unlikely in otherwise healthy male.
The TRT mantra is - most male will feel good (but this is very subjective self-assessment) on E2 levels between 25-30 pg/ml. This is true for my self as well - when measured between 20 and 30, I don't have the "obvious" signs. E2 too low - depression, E2 too high - I am emotional like a little girl. By the way, have you noticed the majority of elderly (65 and older) man are very emotional? This is not necessarily because they are getting more wise, but because low testosterone production equates to less DHT (the main E2 antagonist) causing female hormones to run wild.
@miamifunk , on your question... as I said before, unfortunately "dialing" the levels cannot be achieved by any other means but testing (not cheap) and furthermore testing done in "scientific" manner. For example, i poopoed (sort of) my last test. While I was using Watson (50mg twice a week) 200 mg/ml for a long time, prior to my physical I shot UGL 75mg (250 mg/ml), T come back too high - above 1000 in the day of the next shot. Not too bad, but apparently was well above the day after the shot... So, now I plan to do two weeks 50mg/shot of the new suspension and go back to the lab.
If only the damn lab was closer (one hour drive on one direction), I would have measured every freaking day of the week to see the trend - there is a lot of talk about "saw tooth" pattern of T levels based on frequency and method of administration.
Bottom line, listen you body and test, test, test. Two weeks on your regular T shots and 0.25mg AI, record how you feel on journal, test Total, Free and E2, record as well. Adjust AI if you feel you need to, test after another two weeks, record and compare.
It has been a week since I started AI again and, breakouts on my back have began diminishing and did not shed a tear during the national anthem during MNF.
The TRT mantra is - most male will feel good (but this is very subjective self-assessment) on E2 levels between 25-30 pg/ml. This is true for my self as well - when measured between 20 and 30, I don't have the "obvious" signs. E2 too low - depression, E2 too high - I am emotional like a little girl. By the way, have you noticed the majority of elderly (65 and older) man are very emotional? This is not necessarily because they are getting more wise, but because low testosterone production equates to less DHT (the main E2 antagonist) causing female hormones to run wild.
@miamifunk , on your question... as I said before, unfortunately "dialing" the levels cannot be achieved by any other means but testing (not cheap) and furthermore testing done in "scientific" manner. For example, i poopoed (sort of) my last test. While I was using Watson (50mg twice a week) 200 mg/ml for a long time, prior to my physical I shot UGL 75mg (250 mg/ml), T come back too high - above 1000 in the day of the next shot. Not too bad, but apparently was well above the day after the shot... So, now I plan to do two weeks 50mg/shot of the new suspension and go back to the lab.
If only the damn lab was closer (one hour drive on one direction), I would have measured every freaking day of the week to see the trend - there is a lot of talk about "saw tooth" pattern of T levels based on frequency and method of administration.
Bottom line, listen you body and test, test, test. Two weeks on your regular T shots and 0.25mg AI, record how you feel on journal, test Total, Free and E2, record as well. Adjust AI if you feel you need to, test after another two weeks, record and compare.
It has been a week since I started AI again and, breakouts on my back have began diminishing and did not shed a tear during the national anthem during MNF.
master.on
New Member
What's a good Increlex dosage?
Prices here:
Subcutaneous Solution
10 mg/mL
Increlex subcutaneous solution
from $38,586.10
for 40 milliliters
Quantity Per unit Price
40 (10 x 4 milliliters) $964.65 $38,586.10
Increlex Prices, Coupons & Patient Assistance Programs - Drugs.com
$28,942.26
(normal Blink Price $28,947.26)
Find a new low price for your medication
NCRELEX 4ml of 10mg/ml vials (Qty:4)
appx. price $15264.00
INCRELEX (Mecasermin) dosage, indication, interactions, side effects | EMPR
$38k+
INCRELEX (Mecasermin) dosage, indication, interactions, side effects | EMPR
While prices are sobering
it makes you laugh at idiots who think their $200 research chemicals actually contain any real IGF-1.
Prices here:
Subcutaneous Solution
10 mg/mL
Increlex subcutaneous solution
from $38,586.10
for 40 milliliters
Quantity Per unit Price
40 (10 x 4 milliliters) $964.65 $38,586.10
Increlex Prices, Coupons & Patient Assistance Programs - Drugs.com
$28,942.26
(normal Blink Price $28,947.26)
Find a new low price for your medication
NCRELEX 4ml of 10mg/ml vials (Qty:4)
appx. price $15264.00
INCRELEX (Mecasermin) dosage, indication, interactions, side effects | EMPR
$38k+
INCRELEX (Mecasermin) dosage, indication, interactions, side effects | EMPR
While prices are sobering
it makes you laugh at idiots who think their $200 research chemicals actually contain any real IGF-1.
Last edited:
tenpoundsleft
Member
What's a good Increlex dosage?
Prices here:
Subcutaneous Solution
10 mg/mL
Increlex subcutaneous solution
from $38,586.10
for 40 milliliters
Quantity Per unit Price
40 (10 x 4 milliliters) $964.65 $38,586.10
Increlex Prices, Coupons & Patient Assistance Programs - Drugs.com
$28,942.26
(normal Blink Price $28,947.26)
Find a new low price for your medication
NCRELEX 4ml of 10mg/ml vials (Qty:4)
appx. price $15264.00
INCRELEX (Mecasermin) dosage, indication, interactions, side effects | EMPR
$38k+
INCRELEX (Mecasermin) dosage, indication, interactions, side effects | EMPR
While prices are sobering
it makes you laugh at idiots who think their $200 research chemicals actually contain any real IGF-1.
One thing, there's a patent for Increlex (which expires in 2017) so how reflective are these prices of actual mfg costs vs simply being able to extract the patent premium? That premium can easily be 100X over mfg cost.
Obviously any UGL doesn't worry about the patent.
Additionally, since it's expiring this year, maybe we'll see generic (but still pharma grade) competition soon?
So, first of all, here is what I got:
Hi xxx,
We don’t have Increlex (IGF-1), but we do have IGF-1 LR3 1mg, $3xx/vial.
Regards
I cannot imagine the production of Increlex (rhIGF-1) will be WAY more complex compared to other recombinant technologies, so it boils down to milking the cow while still alive.
My take is rhIGF-1 is not (yet) popular enough to spike UGL interest. After all, it is all about making profits...
Hi xxx,
We don’t have Increlex (IGF-1), but we do have IGF-1 LR3 1mg, $3xx/vial.
Regards
I cannot imagine the production of Increlex (rhIGF-1) will be WAY more complex compared to other recombinant technologies, so it boils down to milking the cow while still alive.
My take is rhIGF-1 is not (yet) popular enough to spike UGL interest. After all, it is all about making profits...
Actually, we have tested and confirmed these companies/businesses can and do produce real IGF-1 analogues... Here's an example of real IGF-1 LR3 that was tested TURBOVITAL HYGENE BIOPHARMA Long R3 IGF-1What's a good Increlex dosage?
Prices here:
Subcutaneous Solution
10 mg/mL
Increlex subcutaneous solution
from $38,586.10
for 40 milliliters
Quantity Per unit Price
40 (10 x 4 milliliters) $964.65 $38,586.10
Increlex Prices, Coupons & Patient Assistance Programs - Drugs.com
$28,942.26
(normal Blink Price $28,947.26)
Find a new low price for your medication
NCRELEX 4ml of 10mg/ml vials (Qty:4)
appx. price $15264.00
INCRELEX (Mecasermin) dosage, indication, interactions, side effects | EMPR
$38k+
INCRELEX (Mecasermin) dosage, indication, interactions, side effects | EMPR
While prices are sobering
it makes you laugh at idiots who think their $200 research chemicals actually contain any real IGF-1.
I believe those kits sell for around $100... Undoubtedly they can manufacture IGF-1 without the LR3 modification, yes? The market just demands that modification due to it's perceived bio-availability by the general consumer. If it does, or does not work is irrelevant as you claimed it cannot be synthesized..... When obviously it CAN.
Indeed!
There are at least 3 different sources (4 with turbovital) that I know can produce IGF-1 LR3.
The question now is not "can it be made?", as we know it can be... The question truly is "does it work?".... Then, of course, "does it work better than IGF-1 produced by exogenous GH?"
We're wasting our time arguing that it cannot be made, which irritates me.... I want to know what it does, and if IGF-1LR3 and DES actually have any realistic application to bodybuilding/longevity?....
I'm getting a few anecdotals from my friends and they generally do not enjoy IGF-1 LR3 too much
something along the lines of "the pump is godlike but there are no long lasting effects"
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