Silk Road ...

[Millard]

So does he get his 144,336 BTC back? It is worth $15,162,935,581 today

I do not think even a presidential pardon restores seized assets.

He still may have access to $47 million in btc wallets from that period

Bitcoin Wallets Left Behind by Ross Ulbricht Before Prison Sentence Still Hold $47,000,000 in BTC: Coinbase Executive - The Daily Hodl

Coinbase director Conor Grogan says Bitcoin wallets left behind by Ross Ulbricht when he was imprisoned for his underground online marketplace Silk Road are still holding tens of millions of dollars worth of BTC.

dailyhodl.com

 

[Max Magnus]

So does he get his 144,336 BTC back? It is worth $15,162,935,581 today

I do not think even a presidential pardon restores seized assets.

He still may have access to $47 million in btc wallets from that period

Bitcoin Wallets Left Behind by Ross Ulbricht Before Prison Sentence Still Hold $47,000,000 in BTC: Coinbase Executive - The Daily Hodl

Coinbase director Conor Grogan says Bitcoin wallets left behind by Ross Ulbricht when he was imprisoned for his underground online marketplace Silk Road are still holding tens of millions of dollars worth of BTC.

dailyhodl.com

I don't think he'll get any money back. That money was made 'illegally' --- you don't get it back ~

 

[iris]

I don't think he'll get any money back. That money was made 'illegally' --- you don't get it back ~

It's likely you are right.
Assuming they can be linked to what he was doing, as the proceeds of criminal activity, they would be confiscated.
But if they cannot prove the funds derive from that, maybe...

Thank you for the post @Michael Scally MD

 

[steveboomer]

I am sympathetic to Ulbricht's release...however he definitely knew what he was doing, and he did make a lot of money in btc.

Back in the old times I had a buddy who was an engineering student at a big name state school. While he was down there he and his roommates started ordering stuff from silk road. Started with weed and different psychedelics, then pills like xtacy and then oxy's. He had IBS and started self-medicating or at least that's what he told everybody.

Anyways after silk road got shut down he started using street heroin and eventually OD'd. RIP buddy.

My point is the silk road acted as a gateway for otherwise normal kids to order hard drugs to their door like it was amazon. Which I think is not good.

Perhaps an interesting question is if the silk road had never been shut down...and my buddy never had to start copping it on the streets would he still be alive?

 

[Eman]

I am sympathetic to Ulbricht's release...however he definitely knew what he was doing, and he did make a lot of money in btc.

Back in the old times I had a buddy who was an engineering student at a big name state school. While he was down there he and his roommates started ordering stuff from silk road. Started with weed and different psychedelics, then pills like xtacy and then oxy's. He had IBS and started self-medicating or at least that's what he told everybody.

Anyways after silk road got shut down he started using street heroin and eventually OD'd. RIP buddy.

My point is the silk road acted as a gateway for otherwise normal kids to order hard drugs to their door like it was amazon. Which I think is not good.

Perhaps an interesting question is if the silk road had never been shut down...and my buddy never had to start copping it on the streets would he still be alive?

Do you think that, if silk road had never existed, they would never have touched those hard drugs?

My logic with the "gateway" argument is that people will arrive at the same destination, no matter what route they take to get there. If weed, the "gateway drug" didn't exist, people would still move to harder drugs regardless. If the silk road "gateway" didn't exist, people will obtain hard drugs from the next lesser part of resistance.

Regardless of what I believe, it's always an interesting thought experiment nonetheless.

 

[iris]

the silk road "gateway" didn't exist, people will obtain hard drugs from the next lesser part of resistance.

Is that enough of a justification for providing a further avenue for the sale of illegal goods?

it's always an interesting thought experiment nonetheless.

In the sense that libertarian economics are supposed to be at its roots?
I don't think they are.

Regardless, his sentence was excessive and unjust.
Trump did the right thing pardoning him.

But I think the severity of the sentence was why he did it, not because he believes this black market experiment was representative of the libertarian doctrine.

 

[steveboomer]

Like Snowden and Assange, Ulbricht was made an example of by deranged boomers who wanted to the world to be like it was in the 80's, but time had passed them by. Thank God Trump is dismantling the edifice of insanity erected underneath the boomers' noses by a corrupt cabal consisting of pedophiles, ugly women, and minorities with an axe to grind. Taking down USAID is probably the greatest political triumph of my lifetime.

 

[bigMoJo]

So does he get his 144,336 BTC back? It is worth $15,162,935,581 today

I do not think even a presidential pardon restores seized assets.

He still may have access to $47 million in btc wallets from that period

Bitcoin Wallets Left Behind by Ross Ulbricht Before Prison Sentence Still Hold $47,000,000 in BTC: Coinbase Executive - The Daily Hodl

Coinbase director Conor Grogan says Bitcoin wallets left behind by Ross Ulbricht when he was imprisoned for his underground online marketplace Silk Road are still holding tens of millions of dollars worth of BTC.

dailyhodl.com

My understanding is that evidence/assets seized in an investigation, Federal or State, as proceeds from criminal endeavor are returned if there is no conviction.

If he's unconditionally pardoned, it's like he was never convicted. So, that bitcoin/money should be returned.

 

[Ghoul]

My understanding is that evidence/assets seized in an investigation, Federal or State, as proceeds from criminal endeavor are returned if there is no conviction.

If he's unconditionally pardoned, it's like he was never convicted. So, that bitcoin/money should be returned.

The government, especially at the local level, seems to have been able to seize money even in the absence of evidence of a crime in many cases. Definately a corrupting practice that should be stoped.

 

[Millard]

ChatGPT answer:

An unconditional presidential pardon typically restores civil rights and removes legal penalties associated with a federal conviction, but it does not automatically require the government to return seized assets that were forfeited as proceeds of a crime. Here's why:

1. Presidential Pardons and Forfeited Assets​

• A presidential pardon only applies to federal offenses and erases the legal consequences of a conviction. However, it does not reverse asset forfeiture unless explicitly stated in the pardon.
• Asset forfeiture laws (such as the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000) allow the government to seize and liquidate assets that are determined to be the proceeds of criminal activity.
• Once forfeited through a civil or criminal forfeiture proceeding, the assets belong to the U.S. government and are typically auctioned or liquidated.

2. Precedents on Asset Return After a Pardon​

• There are no major legal precedents where a presidential pardon automatically resulted in the return of forfeited assets.
• Even in high-profile cases, individuals who received pardons did not get back forfeited money or property.
• The only way assets might be returned is through direct presidential order or separate legal action challenging the forfeiture.

3. Does a Pardon Nullify Forfeiture?​

• No, because criminal forfeiture is independent of the conviction itself.
• Forfeiture is considered "an action against the property," not against the person. Even if someone is pardoned, the government can argue that the property was lawfully forfeited due to its connection to illegal activities.

4. Can Ross Ulbricht Get His BTC Back?​

• The 144,336 BTC seized from him in 2013 was sold at government auctions and is no longer held by the government.
• His pardon does not automatically restore forfeited assets.
• If Ulbricht wishes to reclaim any remaining funds, he would likely have to file a lawsuit arguing that the forfeiture was unlawful, which would be very difficult to win.

Key Takeaway​

Even with a full presidential pardon, assets that were seized and forfeited as criminal proceeds remain government property, unless there is a separate court ruling or executive action specifically reversing the forfeiture.

Sources:

1. Department of Justice. (2022, November 7). U.S. Attorney announces historic $3.36 billion cryptocurrency seizure and conviction in connection with Silk Road dark web fraud. U.S. Department of Justice. U.S. Attorney Announces Historic $3.36 Billion Cryptocurrency Seizure And Conviction In Connection With Silk Road Dark Web Fraud

2. Greenberg, A. (2025, January 21). Trump frees Silk Road creator Ross Ulbricht after 11 years in prison. WIRED. Trump Frees Silk Road Creator Ross Ulbricht After 11 Years in Prison

3. Daily Hodl Staff. (2025, January 22). Bitcoin wallets left behind by Ross Ulbricht before prison sentence still hold $47,000,000 in BTC: Coinbase executive. The Daily Hodl. Bitcoin Wallets Left Behind by Ross Ulbricht Before Prison Sentence Still Hold $47,000,000 in BTC: Coinbase Executive - The Daily Hodl

 

[Millard]

The government, especially at the local level, seems to have been able to seize money even in the absence of evidence of a crime in many cases. Definately a corrupting practice that should be stoped.

"Beyond a reasonable doubt" is the standard for criminal conviction.

"Preponderance of the evidence" is the standard to take their money.

 

[BigTomJ]

ChatGPT answer:

An unconditional presidential pardon typically restores civil rights and removes legal penalties associated with a federal conviction, but it does not automatically require the government to return seized assets that were forfeited as proceeds of a crime. Here's why:

1. Presidential Pardons and Forfeited Assets​

• A presidential pardon only applies to federal offenses and erases the legal consequences of a conviction. However, it does not reverse asset forfeiture unless explicitly stated in the pardon.
• Asset forfeiture laws (such as the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000) allow the government to seize and liquidate assets that are determined to be the proceeds of criminal activity.
• Once forfeited through a civil or criminal forfeiture proceeding, the assets belong to the U.S. government and are typically auctioned or liquidated.

2. Precedents on Asset Return After a Pardon​

• There are no major legal precedents where a presidential pardon automatically resulted in the return of forfeited assets.
• Even in high-profile cases, individuals who received pardons did not get back forfeited money or property.
• The only way assets might be returned is through direct presidential order or separate legal action challenging the forfeiture.

3. Does a Pardon Nullify Forfeiture?​

• No, because criminal forfeiture is independent of the conviction itself.
• Forfeiture is considered "an action against the property," not against the person. Even if someone is pardoned, the government can argue that the property was lawfully forfeited due to its connection to illegal activities.

4. Can Ross Ulbricht Get His BTC Back?​

• The 144,336 BTC seized from him in 2013 was sold at government auctions and is no longer held by the government.
• His pardon does not automatically restore forfeited assets.
• If Ulbricht wishes to reclaim any remaining funds, he would likely have to file a lawsuit arguing that the forfeiture was unlawful, which would be very difficult to win.

Key Takeaway​

Even with a full presidential pardon, assets that were seized and forfeited as criminal proceeds remain government property, unless there is a separate court ruling or executive action specifically reversing the forfeiture.

Sources:

1. Department of Justice. (2022, November 7). U.S. Attorney announces historic $3.36 billion cryptocurrency seizure and conviction in connection with Silk Road dark web fraud. U.S. Department of Justice. U.S. Attorney Announces Historic $3.36 Billion Cryptocurrency Seizure And Conviction In Connection With Silk Road Dark Web Fraud

2. Greenberg, A. (2025, January 21). Trump frees Silk Road creator Ross Ulbricht after 11 years in prison. WIRED. Trump Frees Silk Road Creator Ross Ulbricht After 11 Years in Prison

3. Daily Hodl Staff. (2025, January 22). Bitcoin wallets left behind by Ross Ulbricht before prison sentence still hold $47,000,000 in BTC: Coinbase executive. The Daily Hodl. Bitcoin Wallets Left Behind by Ross Ulbricht Before Prison Sentence Still Hold $47,000,000 in BTC: Coinbase Executive - The Daily Hodl

Man thats a really good response.

What was the prompt?

 

[bubba618]

My understanding is that evidence/assets seized in an investigation, Federal or State, as proceeds from criminal endeavor are returned if there is no conviction.

If he's unconditionally pardoned, it's like he was never convicted. So, that bitcoin/money should be returned.

I suspect civil asset forfeiture laws take precedence here and while he may have been pardoned and most penalties relieved from the point of pardon forward, assets seized are still seized. (Knote v. United States, 95 US 149 - Supreme Court 1877).

​

 

[Millard]

Man thats a really good response.

What was the prompt?

Prompts

1. Does Ross Ulbricht get his BTC back now that he has been pardoned?
2. Is evidence/assets seized in a Federal or State investigation, as proceeds from a criminal endeavor, returned if there is an unconditional presidential pardon?
3. List sources cited in a commonly accepted format.

 

[bubba618]

By the way, Ross Ulbricht would have had the ability to challenge the seizure in court, but in this case the timeframe is long past.

Think in terms of how CBP seizes packages and how you have a set amount of time to contest the forfeiture. Once a forfeiture is finalized according to law, the previous owner has no recourse except for Congressional action via passing legislation which restores the property.

 

[Ben_Franklin]

Prompts

1. Does Ross Ulbricht get his BTC back now that he has been pardoned?
2. Is evidence/assets seized in a Federal or State investigation, as proceeds from a criminal endeavor, returned if there is an unconditional presidential pardon?
3. List sources cited in a commonly accepted format.

You are my next attorney! Nice thanks for sharing.

 

[Lions_Fan]

The government auctioned off some of the Silk Road bitcoins and Tim Draper emerged as the top bidder. He bought roughly 30,000 btc in the auction for about $600 each in 2014. I remember at the time he got a lot of hate and people thought he was stupidly throwing money away. Only took 10 years to 100x his investment. Pretty insane forward thinking play but rather risky at the time.

 

[Ben_Franklin]

The government auctioned off some of the Silk Road bitcoins and Tim Draper emerged as the top bidder. He bought roughly 30,000 btc in the auction for about $600 each in 2014. I remember at the time he got a lot of hate and people thought he was stupidly throwing money away. Only took 10 years to 100x his investment. Pretty insane forward thinking play but rather risky at the time.

Thanks for the reminder. What a crazy risk. IMO…this is how the rich get richer, they have the cheese to risk to get more cheese.

 

[biggerben69]

"Beyond a reasonable doubt" is the standard for criminal conviction.

"Preponderance of the evidence" is the standard to take their money.

I don't know if it was mentioned but a pardon also doesn't squash any restitution that was ordered at the time of sentencing. Many of those pardoned have restitution that they will be saddled with until they expire.

 

[malfeasance]

I don't know if it was mentioned but a pardon also doesn't squash any restitution that was ordered at the time of sentencing. Many of those pardoned have restitution that they will be saddled with until they expire.

That is true of the restitution goes to others, private parties, but not true if the restitution goes to the government. It is also not true as to private parties if they have not yet received restitution.

Here, let me see if I can find a good . . . yep. Here:

EFFECTS OF A PRESIDENTIAL PARDON

See Section III, the cases cited, and the endnotes, 7 and 8.