Qingdao Sigma Chemical Co., Ltd (International, US, EU, Canada and Australia domestic

[AlexDavis43]

View attachment 316450
Those are your outstanding rates bro.
1.4 cases/year for ever 10,000 persons using it.
the peak was 4.5 people for ever 10,000 people with chronic kidney disease.

of course this is a disaster. Drugs are not supposed to worsen a disease, but come on bro!

Common things occur commonly!!!

View attachment 316452

Should we worry about immunogenicity, of course. This is a harm reduction forum, but please, some of us know what the fuck we are talking about.
191 cases world wide. 59 cases since 2002-2009 (world wide)

But you can't say there's no chance

 

[aljowa]

So I only have a undergrad biochem degree, and I don't claim to be an expert at all but I am seeing some possible glaring flaws in your theories of aggregation esp with suggesting filtering as a solution. If aggregates are readily forming from peptides or peptide blends they should be interfering with any optical based analytic technique unless said aggregates just so happen to have the same absorbances of the targeted substances(incredibly unlikely). This should be very easy for some one like Jano to test for. Love to hear him chime in on this.

Secondly, If these aggregates are large enough that filtering them would be remotely effective then you should also be able to "see" them visually with the naked eye by shinning a laser through the solution and looking for observable light scattering. We used this technique in a lab course to detect the presence of nanoparticles.

food for thought.

It's in the Egrifta document itself on page 8

[

You will certainly make friends among the know-nothings here who'll latch onto your post, They're not arguing based on facts. have done no research, and have a personal beef with me.

I'll dismantle your commentary piece by piece. In individual posts.

Let me start by saying aggregates inducing immunogenicity is not my "theory". That claim alone demonstrates the lack of effort on your part.

I'll document everything I say. Will you?

View attachment 316431View attachment 316432

I have a lot of respect for @Ghoul for the invaluable information they've contributed to this site, and I know that I have personally found many of their posts incredibly interesting; they've helped to further my understanding of PEDs and related medicines, and I admire the intellectual drive that must support uncovering this knowledge. I don't think anyone who is approaching the topic of immunogicity in good faith is doubting the factuality of the issue. Having said that, I see nothing wrong with questioning aspects of immunogicity and provoking open discussion about the practical scale of the issue. A basic, foundational tenet of philosophy of science is the aim of discovering truths about the physical world via various means and methods that are testable and falsifiable. Healthy scientific practice involves questioning the basis of established scientific theories, as well as their perceived logical consequences, regardless of how well-supported they may be. If a theory cannot withstand honest critique, it needs to be re-evaluated in order for it to align itself closer to the truth of the subject matter being investigated.

This is all to say that there is no need for dismissive and hostile rhetoric when engaging in a discussion, and it only serves to detract from the argument of the person utilizing such tactics. If we can agree that we all want the same thing, finding answers that move us closer to the truth, then there is no need for personal insults or to interpret another person's questions as an attack on one's character. This type of behavior gives off the impression that one is attaching themselves in a dogmatic fashion to a specific claim, and that any question regarding the claim's validity is attacking the belief system of the individual. This is more indicative of a religious belief and has no place in a discussion regarding scientific claims. We are all in the same boat trying to get to the same destination, and there is nothing wrong with someone questioning the route the ship should take, provided they can argue their conclusion with a strong argument that cannot be rebutted. If a theory is so obviously well-established and empirically supported, then it should make it that much easier to defeat any argument against it, which will only strengthen the validity and soundness of the theory. In this sense, questioning the theory actually ends up benefitting the theory in the long run. All of this can proceed without passive aggressiveness and insults, which only distract from the discussion, and is far better for the quality of the dialogue and those reading from the sidelines, so to speak.

My apologies for the text wall, but it's disheartening to see such an interesting discussion get bogged down with unnecessary and irrelevant rhetoric.


P.S.
love y'all

 

[Middus]

You can't have a healthy discussion or disagreement with some people. He calls people low IQ retards all the time (eg, 1 & 2).

Microsoft Study Finds AI Makes Human Cognition “Atrophied and Unprepared”

I generally shy away from topics I know nothing about, so I don't like comments I put out being dismissed as knuckle dragging, especially when I feel His contributions are valuable in regard to said topic.

There is no point in me countering warnings, but I mean, calling that suggestion knuckle dragging? Its merely a comment borne out of tolerance limits/preference.

Plus another good thing about the Erythropoietin mishap is that it was due to the rubber stoppers contaminating the peptide. This is one thing he has been campaigning about so that's great!! However, he attributed it to Tungsten which prompted my fiction comment.

Now I need to go fix my computer. Seemed to have wiped my desktop by syncing one drive

 

[Ghoul]

Bruh.. Because i restrained myself from calling out the exagerration and fiction you posted about Erythropoetin alpha the other day..

You just went and googled up stuff without doing proper research and winged it. I let it be because It was of no value to that discussion, but you overestimate your grasp of some of these things and grossly underestimate the competence of others.

Give it your best shot.

Let's stick to one point at a time though. I have more than enough to counter your points in turn.

You've implied that immunogenicity is only relevant to the sick and not the healthy. It's something you share with @AlexDavis43.

Make that make sense. It's been brought up by you and Alex repeatedly.

How is an ill, weakened person more likely to have a potent immunogenic reaction than a healthy person?

 

[AlexDavis43]

Healthy people will react differently. They may have stronger immunity, but they may also have better clearance of the tesamorelin antibody. My specific mention of Healthy people is that we don't know if healthy people will have cross reactivity with growth hormone releasing hormone. But the study have performed on healthy individuals showed efficacy of Tesa in healthy people over a year. I just figured that if immunogenicity and neutralizing antibody was stronger, efficacy will be affected and this will skew results between AD and Placebo groups or at least affect P values regarding efficacy? That of course is extrapolation on my part, but reasonable. Which is why added no immunologic tests were performed on that group

So people can get GH antibodies measured, but they aren't necessarily the ones that interfere with GH function. So we still wouldn't know.

And if efficacy was unaffected in those with & without antibodies, what's the point?

We have antibodies to loads of things. Not a boogie monster.

 

[Ghoul]

What the "Egrifta document", really the consumer insert.

I generally shy away from topics I know nothing about, so I don't like comments I put out being dismissed as knuckle dragging, especially when I feel His contributions are valuable in regard to said topic.

There is no point in me countering warnings, but I mean, calling that suggestion knuckle dragging? Its merely a comment borne out of tolerance limits/preference.

Plus another good thing about the Erythropoietin mishap is that it was due to the rubber stoppers contaminating the peptide. This is one thing he has been campaigning about so that's great!! However, he attributed it to Tungsten which prompted my fiction comment.

Now I need to go fix my computer. Seemed to have wiped my desktop by syncing one drive

T-cell assays confirm immunogenicity of tungsten-induced erythropoietin aggregates associated with pure red cell aplasia - PMC

Tungsten-induced rhEPO aggregates in clinical lots are associated with rhEPO-neutralizing antibodies and PRCA. T-cell responses differentiate nonaggregated from aggregated rhEPO, confirming immunogenicity of tungsten-induced rhEPO aggregates.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Middus]

Give it your best shot.

Let's stick to one point at a time though. I have more than enough to counter your points in turn.

You've implied that immunogenicity is only relevant to the sick and not the healthy. It's something you share with @AlexDavis43.

Make that make sense. It's been brought up by you and Alex repeatedly.

How is an ill, weakened person more likely to have a potent immunogenic reaction than a healthy person?

That association you put forth is too simplistic.
A disease can be over expression of immunity.. i,e autoimmunity that leads to be body attacking every shyte it assumes is foreign
A health person's immune system may over react or on the other hand may be better at clearing aggregates so they don't linger and trigger complexes that result in more grievous actions.
Lastly, there is a tesamorelin study in healthy people. Tesa worked. It means the reaction to it was probably no worse.. but we will not know. The researchers were not hell bent on looking for that. They probaby were exploring Tesa for weightloss first but figured that was a waste compared to other meds...

 

[Middus]

What the "Egrifta document", really the consumer insert.

T-cell assays confirm immunogenicity of tungsten-induced erythropoietin aggregates associated with pure red cell aplasia - PMC

Tungsten-induced rhEPO aggregates in clinical lots are associated with rhEPO-neutralizing antibodies and PRCA. T-cell responses differentiate nonaggregated from aggregated rhEPO, confirming immunogenicity of tungsten-induced rhEPO aggregates.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You see, it was deficient googling on your part. The EPO stuff you posted was not due to the tungsten needle.. it was due to the bung. You did not google deeply enough perhaps. I on the other hand was taught in class

 

[Middus]

Okay really gotta go

 

[Ghoul]

Okay really gotta go

So soon. Glock boy even showed up to support you, and we know what an intellectual powerhouse he is.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Give it your best shot.

Let's stick to one point at a time though. I have more than enough to counter your points in turn.

You've implied that immunogenicity is only relevant to the sick and not the healthy. It's something you share with @AlexDavis43.

Make that make sense. It's been brought up by you and Alex repeatedly.

How is an ill, weakened person more likely to have a potent immunogenic reaction than a healthy person?

More potent immunogenic reactions might be how they became ill & weakened in the first place.

Good grief man.

 

[Alias Chosen]

Yes.

HGH is the only peptide / protein drug routinely monitored for immunogenicity at the clinic level. There's a blood test available for it.

One of the ways it's dealt with is switching brands, to see if antibody levels go down and the HGH starts working again. Since all HGH is somatropin, the only difference between brands are the excipient ingredients in the formulation, which mainly serve to minimize aggregation to prevent immunogenicity.

Here are children who lost response to HGH from immunogenicity and the methods used to try and fix it. "Inhibition" is how much HGH effectiveness was reduced.

View attachment 316328

Here's a measure of the antibodies produced by different pharma formulations, most of which can be attributed to aggregates.

View attachment 316329

UGL is certainly worse. No anti-aggregate measures are taken (slightly wrong PH alone can cause aggregation to get 10x worse). No immunogenicity tests are conducted. "I've never noticed immunogenicity". Would you notice a 15-20% drop in effectiveness over a year?

Filtering reduces immunogenicity, ensures sterility, prevents particulates like common glass delamination and stopper rubber from getting into your body and eventually your organs where they accumulate, causing micro embolisms. It's all upside.

Wouldn’t filtration potentially degrade HGH efficacy by inducing agitation, similar to how excessive shaking or impact causes foaming and denaturation? You’ve previously explained aspects of this, but I’m interested in understanding how the filtration process avoids structural disruption of the protein. Also, can immunogenicity become a persistent issue even after prolonged cessation of HGH use?

Edit:
I didn’t initially see the other member’s question, which essentially addressed the same point in the latter part of mine and you answered that. Apologies.

 

[TurboJet]

Are we doing butt stuff or what???

 

[Swolemates365]

Are we doing butt stuff or what???

Depends if there is a reach around or not?

 

[glpfun]

Are we doing butt stuff or what???

 

[Alias Chosen]

Sounds to me like your dipping your toes into the pool to see if it’s warm enough to jump back in.

Now here’s what I came here to post.

WHERE’S MY FUCKING MONEY?!?!

You took mine and everyone else’s money that placed orders on this forum knowing full well that there were problems. You’re not even in China. You have my money. BTC has risen through the roof since I placed my order. Your wallets haven’t been emptied. You have out fucking money. Now refund your customers that you so much care about and wish to do business with. Otherwise go and kill yourself. You talk to people like trash openly and then come here and want sympathy from people here that 2024 wasn’t profitable. Go cry me a fucking river. You took peoples money and give some sorry ass story that you can’t log in and you’re not having a good time with our money. That’s some bullshit if you ask me. And any jerkoff that does business with you in the future would be even dumber.

No shut the fuck up and come here when you have everyone’s money. Otherwise go fuck yourself.

This is the game, bro! It’s always a risk. You can get bunk gear, lose your money, get an infection, or even get popped; it comes with the territory. Tracy mentioned they’ve been running into issues since November, and Ghoul was warning about shipping problems even before that. You knew the risks going in, so you shouldn’t jump on a source’s thread and start berating them when you willingly took the gamble and it didn’t go your way. If you want a guarantee that you won’t get ripped off, end up with bunk gear, or risk getting popped, then don’t run gear or just go to your local men’s clinic and pay $180 for a vial of test. As soon as Tracy and Ghoul started warning about the issues coming our way, I made the call to sacrifice some holiday cash and stocked up. After that November order, I was out. I knew exactly what you’re dealing with now was bound to happen.

 

[bigMoJo]

Did you check jasonhealth? they use quest. I just got blood work done and I spilt the order between jasonhealth and ultalabs. Scheduled the appointment and showed them my 2 orders and they pulled blood for both orders at the same time. I also check grassroots labs for some tests.

This one is jasonhealth.
View attachment 316410

This is ulta labs
View attachment 316411

Wow, for Quest, that's phenomenal pricing! Even competitive with LabCorp through Fitomics.

 

[urmumsurdad30]

Sounds to me like your dipping your toes into the pool to see if it’s warm enough to jump back in.

Now here’s what I came here to post.

WHERE’S MY FUCKING MONEY?!?!

You took mine and everyone else’s money that placed orders on this forum knowing full well that there were problems. You’re not even in China. You have my money. BTC has risen through the roof since I placed my order. Your wallets haven’t been emptied. You have out fucking money. Now refund your customers that you so much care about and wish to do business with. Otherwise go and kill yourself. You talk to people like trash openly and then come here and want sympathy from people here that 2024 wasn’t profitable. Go cry me a fucking river. You took peoples money and give some sorry ass story that you can’t log in and you’re not having a good time with our money. That’s some bullshit if you ask me. And any jerkoff that does business with you in the future would be even dumber.

No shut the fuck up and come here when you have everyone’s money. Otherwise go fuck yourself.

Waa waa, cry about it. Stupid cunt, you're participating in illegal activities. If you're scared about losing money, stick to Creatine and Mutant WPI ya donut.

 

[CryAboutIt]

This is the game, bro! It’s always a risk. You can get bunk gear, lose your money, get an infection, or even get popped; it comes with the territory. Tracy mentioned they’ve been running into issues since November, and Ghoul was warning about shipping problems even before that. You knew the risks going in, so you shouldn’t jump on a source’s thread and start berating them when you willingly took the gamble and it didn’t go your way. If you want a guarantee that you won’t get ripped off, end up with bunk gear, or risk getting popped, then don’t run gear or just go to your local men’s clinic and pay $180 for a vial of test. As soon as Tracy and Ghoul started warning about the issues coming our way, I made the call to sacrifice some holiday cash and stocked up. After that November order, I was out. I knew exactly what you’re dealing with now was bound to happen.

Anyone commenting that “this isn’t Amazon” and “I knew the risk” gets the fucking Genius of the Year Award and a gold star. Jesus you guys are fucking sharp. First off, if you ain’t out any money the shut the fuck up. Who gives a fuck what you anticipated happening you fucking braggard. You got lucky is all. November and problems were happening but you still placed an order? You rolled the dice and got lucky is all. And if you somehow anticipated something like this was bound to happen then why did the Chinaman take people’s money and stop processing orders? Pfffttt.

It’s not the money for me. I made plenty off of QSC and his peptides. There are many that are out a lot of fucking money. And this shitbag comes on here with some soliloquy on how fucking 2024 was a non-profitable year but just a few days before his announcement the QSC wallet was cleared out of funds. If it’s the intention of QSC to make things right then make things right. No need to post here. Post here when you have everyone’s loot.

Y’all are just dickriding a vendor jaded by cheap floater laced $5 oils. You’ll see. If he comes back, he will make a very small fraction of customers whole and fuck everyone else. Why would he need to refund everyone. I mean he made zero profit in 2024.

 

[ExogenousDan]

Anyone commenting that “this isn’t Amazon” and “I knew the risk” gets the fucking Genius of the Year Award and a gold star. Jesus you guys are fucking sharp. First off, if you ain’t out any money the shut the fuck up. Who gives a fuck what you anticipated happening you fucking braggard. You got lucky is all. November and problems were happening but you still placed an order? You rolled the dice and got lucky is all. And if you somehow anticipated something like this was bound to happen then why did the Chinaman take people’s money and stop processing orders? Pfffttt.

It’s not the money for me. I made plenty off of QSC and his peptides. There are many that are out a lot of fucking money. And this shitbag comes on here with some soliloquy on how fucking 2024 was a non-profitable year but just a few days before his announcement the QSC wallet was cleared out of funds. If it’s the intention of QSC to make things right then make things right. No need to post here. Post here when you have everyone’s loot.

Y’all are just dickriding a vendor jaded by cheap floater laced $5 oils. You’ll see. If he comes back, he will make a very small fraction of customers whole and fuck everyone else. Why would he need to refund everyone. I mean he made zero profit in 2024.

Stop waffling lad. Seems you have high estrogen