I am doing a cut, I’m not lean at all lol. Mid teens trying to go to 10%. So, easy not so aggressive, just doing semaglutide, 400 cyp and 300 primo till i reach my goal bf.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
RHR and correlation to PED dosages.. My Experience
- Thread starter makeway
- Start date
Interesting. I’m not familiar with metropolol and will have to look into that.
It’s a beta blocker, I would say nebivolol is the more famous counterpart for bb purposes but it is what’s prescribed by my doc. I have been fighting him to switch it to no avail lol.
Thanks for the info!
BachmanityInsanity
New Member
Wow that haemotrocrit is low for a blast?
is red flushed skin in the face and neck usually haemotrocrit? I’ve had that on cycle with good blood pressure
Yeah, hemocrit is very personal. I know guys who have to donate at 200mg TRT and also guys running 3 grams with good hemo. All my blood markers and cholesterol seem to tolerate gear very well. My AST/ALT on the other had doesn’t… as I’ve gotten 100ALT off of 50mg pharm anavar even while utilizing on cycle support.
rexy
Member
Glad to see this getting more of the recogniton that it deserves. That is, the potential RHR increase that can be expereicend with AAS use. Particularly grateful to @readalot who provided links not only here but in another thread recently that showed some discussion on t-nation about it (can't remember which thread). I think the general theory was that AAS can make you more sensitive to your own catecholamine release too, among other things.
I researched for 2 years before I took my first cycle, and of all the sides I was prepared for, not once did I see it mentioned that it could impact HR. I took my first 250mg shot of Test E, prepared for every other side effect on earth, and low and behold, from around 12 hrs later as blood levels rose, my HR was 15-20beats faster and uncomfortable - it was dreadful. Felt constantly on edge. Like being on clen, which I also can't tolerate even at low doses of 20mcg without beta-blockers, so for me there seems to be a natural sensitivity anyway.
In the end I settled on always running beta blockers alongside the gear. I've tried lower dosages of test and it still persists even until around 100mg or less per week. It also doesn't go higher with higher doses - it just kicks in straight away from around 100 onwards and I can scale to 600/700mg and it's the same rHR increase. Obviously this is not much of a threshold on the low end for use, so I simply had to either accept not taking gear, or use the beta blockers. We all know which one I was going to choose. BTW HgH does the same thing with my HR so it's definitely a no-no for me without beta blockers.
Alternatively, I've tested most other AAS too to see which have an effect, and the only ones I found not to have an impact on my RHR were boldenone, masteron, primo and DHB. Nandrolone and Tren made RHR go even higher than test. Orals do the same; var, winny and anadrol all cause it too.
The way I was able to tell what does and doesn't impact HR is because I did short periods where once test had cleared, I shot doses of mast, primo or boldenone only (each one separate - not at the same time of course) and measured its impact on my HR via fitbit over the weeks. I actually did a bolenone only run for 16 weeks at one point for this reason, so I could avoid having to use beta-blockers for once. I don't find a lack of test base causes me personally many problems - it didn't on that boldenone cycle. But i'd still always prefer to run it.
Anyway, my solution longer term has been to always run a beta blocker alongside any cycle with test, because even dosages of 100mg+ test as a base caused uncomfortable HR increases. Due to the recent post I saw by readalot, I decided to hold off on the test for now and reconsider focusing on mast/primo with as minimul test as I can. The problem with the beta blockers is the effect on memory. Nebivolol is the least egrigious, but I'd still rather not use them long term. Problem is, alongside test, unless the dose is miniscule, I have to.
I researched for 2 years before I took my first cycle, and of all the sides I was prepared for, not once did I see it mentioned that it could impact HR. I took my first 250mg shot of Test E, prepared for every other side effect on earth, and low and behold, from around 12 hrs later as blood levels rose, my HR was 15-20beats faster and uncomfortable - it was dreadful. Felt constantly on edge. Like being on clen, which I also can't tolerate even at low doses of 20mcg without beta-blockers, so for me there seems to be a natural sensitivity anyway.
In the end I settled on always running beta blockers alongside the gear. I've tried lower dosages of test and it still persists even until around 100mg or less per week. It also doesn't go higher with higher doses - it just kicks in straight away from around 100 onwards and I can scale to 600/700mg and it's the same rHR increase. Obviously this is not much of a threshold on the low end for use, so I simply had to either accept not taking gear, or use the beta blockers. We all know which one I was going to choose. BTW HgH does the same thing with my HR so it's definitely a no-no for me without beta blockers.
Alternatively, I've tested most other AAS too to see which have an effect, and the only ones I found not to have an impact on my RHR were boldenone, masteron, primo and DHB. Nandrolone and Tren made RHR go even higher than test. Orals do the same; var, winny and anadrol all cause it too.
The way I was able to tell what does and doesn't impact HR is because I did short periods where once test had cleared, I shot doses of mast, primo or boldenone only (each one separate - not at the same time of course) and measured its impact on my HR via fitbit over the weeks. I actually did a bolenone only run for 16 weeks at one point for this reason, so I could avoid having to use beta-blockers for once. I don't find a lack of test base causes me personally many problems - it didn't on that boldenone cycle. But i'd still always prefer to run it.
Anyway, my solution longer term has been to always run a beta blocker alongside any cycle with test, because even dosages of 100mg+ test as a base caused uncomfortable HR increases. Due to the recent post I saw by readalot, I decided to hold off on the test for now and reconsider focusing on mast/primo with as minimul test as I can. The problem with the beta blockers is the effect on memory. Nebivolol is the least egrigious, but I'd still rather not use them long term. Problem is, alongside test, unless the dose is miniscule, I have to.
Vast majority of this RHR increase due to cronotropic effect of AAS. What are your dosages?
Androgen Effects on the Adrenergic System of the Vascular, Airway, and Cardiac Myocytes and Their Relevance in Pathological Processes
<i>Introduction</i>. Androgen signaling comprises nongenomic and genomic pathways. Nongenomic actions are not related to the binding of the androgen receptor (AR) and occur rapidly. The genomic effects implicate the binding to a cytosolic AR, leading to protein synthesis. Both events are...www.hindawi.com
Figure 4 | Androgen Effects on the Adrenergic System of the Vascular, Airway, and Cardiac Myocytes and Their Relevance in Pathological Processes
Figure 4: Androgen Effects on the Adrenergic System of the Vascular, Airway, and Cardiac Myocytes and Their Relevance in Pathological Processes
BachmanityInsanity
New Member
I’d be concerned about having enough estradiol if you’re using low dose test with higher doses of other steroids. Is that valid?
I didn’t know beta blockers affected memory. Why is that?
I took propranolol a couple times when very stressed and it made me feel depressed for two days and also I kept waking up 6 times a night for those two days. Never touched it again!
rexy
Member
1) Yes that's valid - never had a problem with it personally though. As mentioned, I ran boldenone only for 16+ weeks and experienced no issues. That's why I chose it and tend to sway toward it if I'm going to do low test; it's conversion to E2. When I had bloods taken mid-cycle using it, my E2 was at the top of the range and the dose was around 1g EQ p/w at the time.
2) Not sure on the specifics but if you search it, its fairly well documented that they can impair memory. I believe it's because the catecholamines have at least some input on memory function, and so blocking them reduces that. I noticed it massively, because usually I have the memory of an elephant, but from the first week of taking propranolol I was forgetting things all the time. As soon as I stop, it reverses. Its undeniable. It happens with other beta blockers too, although with nebivolol I don't notice it much. It's mostly the nonselective ones like propranolol that're the problem
Also yes, depression and sleep issues are other commonly associated issues with nonselective beta blockers - propranolol for sure.
BachmanityInsanity
New Member
Great info thanks man. What are the main problems with elevated RHR apart from discomfort? Is it a big contributor to negative heart changes?
rexy
Member
As I intuitively just knew it couldn't be a good thing, I never looked into it too much once I had a solution. @readalot may be able to help here.
I also forgot to say (ironically) that the nonselective blockers definitely make me dumber too. I'm a good speaker usually, but when on them, I lose train of thought regularly, and struggle to find words way more than I otherwise would and stutter in sentences.
Again, it wasn't so bad I couldn't tolerate it or that others would comment, but for me personally, being particularly articulate with speech, I found it had clear effects on it and that links to the whole memory issue too. I'm on propranolol now temporarily as I ran out of nebivolol and, again ironically, cant remember if nebivolol does it to the same degree
Some mechanistic arguments rather than the typical "higher resting heart rate is associated with increased mortality stuff...As I intuitively just knew it couldn't be a good thing, I never looked into it too much once I had a solution. @readalot may be able to help here.
I also forgot to say (ironically) that the nonselective blockers definitely make me dumber too. I'm a good speaker usually, but when on them, I lose train of thought regularly, and struggle to find words way more than I otherwise would and stutter in sentences.
Again, it wasn't so bad I couldn't tolerate it or that others would comment, but for me personally, being particularly articulate with speech, I found it had clear effects on it and that links to the whole memory issue too. I'm on propranolol now temporarily as I ran out of nebivolol and, again ironically, cant remember if nebivolol does it to the same degree
Heart rate: a forgotten link in coronary artery disease? - Nature Reviews Cardiology
Elevated resting heart rate is an independent, modifiable risk factor for cardiovascular events and mortality in patients with coronary artery disease (CAD). Several mechanisms by which elevated heart rate adversely affects the cardiovascular system are now known. Rates of adequate heart rate...
www.nature.com
More "wear and tear"...
See key points in link.
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3lb Burrito
New Member
Came here looking for exactly this. I don't have much more to say right now except me too, and I'm shocked this is the first time I've seen people talking about it. My RHR was at 48 when I started TRT. Jumped to 55 from there. And jumped from 55 to 85 when I added deca and winstrol. SportsTRT doses of everything.
Does anyone have more experiences to share dealing with this? I have nebi on hand but don't want to think a beta blocker is the only long-term solution (besides dropping off meds). My cardio has gone from exceptional to trash overnight.
Does anyone have more experiences to share dealing with this? I have nebi on hand but don't want to think a beta blocker is the only long-term solution (besides dropping off meds). My cardio has gone from exceptional to trash overnight.
hungryalways
Member
Are you taking HGH by any chance? I have a pretty high RHR naturally but it usually only stays persistently over 70+ overnight when I add HGH. On sports TRT, it's usually only mildly elevated.
Dose, frequency?
Photon
Member
I'm also having trouble with high RHR i cant figure out..
On TRT testU, right now with only 2.5mg nebivol. No other bp meds, anything more drives me hypo..Bf <15%.
4-5IU HGH and 5mg/week Reta with a RHR >85.
I'm probably gonna try ivabradine next..
I don't take stimulants as well (caffeine etc), They give me panic attacks.
On TRT testU, right now with only 2.5mg nebivol. No other bp meds, anything more drives me hypo..Bf <15%.
4-5IU HGH and 5mg/week Reta with a RHR >85.
I'm probably gonna try ivabradine next..
I don't take stimulants as well (caffeine etc), They give me panic attacks.
Jin23
Member
It's low because you measured Bioavailable Testosterone; Free testosterone + Albumin bound. Although the reference range is somewhat high (and too low for TT), but alas, it says "Bioavailable testosterone".
Having a TT of 2.5k on 700 mg's would be a very poor response.
If it hasn't been suggested yet, take a beta blocker; nebivolol, it doesn't decrease max heart rate and cardiac output.
hungryalways
Member
As little as 1IU/day seems to affect me. I just started 1IU/day after about 4 months off; you can see below the day I started. I will creep up to 2/IU.
This is with 1.25mg of nebivolol, and I will consider bumping it up if I don't drop back below 70 RHR.
FWIW, HGH also ruins my sleep, so I seem very sensitive to it. I am also in the top few percentiles for IGF-1 on TRT so not sure if that makes a difference.
Wow, thank for sharing.
Started at 1.5 IU/day, then 1.8, will start 2 IU/day this evening. BP and RHR haven't budged. Been running 280 mg/week Test Cyp and just dropped down to 150. RHR steady at 58 bpm. I don't like surprises.
Best regards.
I found my nesting spot with Tirzepatide and GH plus anabolics periodically. Just hopped back on Tirzepatide after probably like 8 months off. Just at 3mg every 6 days and 3-4iu GH daily.
Just those two drugs plus low dose testosterone is like the pinnacle of cruising. It’s easy to stay lean and muscular with that trifecta for me.
