That's my compromise haha. I love the yellowfin tuna in EVOO so much.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
RHR and correlation to PED dosages.. My Experience
- Thread starter makeway
- Start date
Yeah I remember you talking about it extensively
Did you have any other side effect from the diltiazem? Were you on any GLP1 during diltiazem use? If yes, did it reduce HR from vagus nerve stimulation given by the Glp1?
my bad
rexy
Member
I didn't notice any sides from Diltiazem. I thought I was using Sema during the period but it seems like it could have been bunk so I can't say for sure. It was from QSC in December. After seeing no side effects or fullness after reaching the 2mg dose, I injected 6mg of it figuring it was a duff, and saw no effect so at that point it was obvious that it's either very underdosed or something else.
That said, diltiazem would reduce HR from vagus nerve stimulation as it works on both SA and AV nodes of the heart.
Any med acting on the SA node reduces HR regardless of stimulus. Ivabradine works directly through that mechanism. Not sure how much reduction you could expect from dilt alone though as on it's own it's typically mild - seeing as it's doing it's share of both instead of concentrated on the one pathway like Iva (SA node).
Dil + Nebi in your experience works well right?
william23kelly
Member
Last year on a Test & Primo blast my RHR raised and started to sit around 90-100. I kept propanolol on hand. Coming off everything for a few months fixed it
Propanolol Is quite bad for bodybuilding performance plus lots of possible side effect, depression one of those
rexy
Member
Yes, those two work well together, although I preferred to use Nebi + Iva as my first line because I don't have blood pressure issues. Iva doesn't impact BP like Dilt does.
Dilt would come in at the lowest dose of 90mg to basically put the cherry on top if HR was still too high and I had room to push BP down. It makes a huge difference combined with Iva with it affecting the metabolism of it. Either combination works great though and for someone with BP issues, they would benefit more from Dilt.
I found either Nebi + Dilt or Nebi + Iva would have a similar effect HR wise. It's the combination of the 3 that pummel it.
If I had BP issues I'd use Nebi + Dilt and just ramp the Dilt up as needed once Nebi hit max dose (for me, 10mg).
william23kelly
Member
I believe thats a little bit of an over exaggeration. Just dont take it before the gym.
depression from propanolol? Never heard of anyone experiencing that personally
Plus, for my purposes and my bodybuilding friends its only used in certain situations where HR would elevate ( speech infront crowd, musical performance) , not taking it everyday like someone who was prescribed it
I prefer to add different meds instead of increasing dosages, Nebi never above 5mg I find that it slightly lose cardio selective properties at 10mg and I didn't see any HR decrease compared to 5mg.
The issue with BP meds that don't target only HR reduction but BP too is that if you exaggerate on the BP reduction you can get increased HR from it. Is called reflex tachycardia I believe or something like that. In short word the body see a too low BP and start increasing the HR to jack the BP up.
If I have to choose I prefer a combo of
Telmi + Nebi + indapamide + CCB all at low dosage (except telmisartan) then to increase Nebi or the CCB or diuretics past the minimum dosage
rexy
Member
Agreed, the reflex BP issue is one of the reasons I go with Nebi + Iva first - I don't tend to have BP issues and know that lowering it can result in the reflex tachycardia. So it's all a balancing game and any intro of a further BP drug ontop of Nebi I have to keep very low dosed - as per my 90mg dilt example. i've even used 45mg before.
The problem is going to my doctor and having her writing the prescriptions she looks me like I'm a walking dead man because here they are not really updated on how it is better to mix and match different medications instead of just pumping one high. Plus even the cardiologist when I told him what I was on (BP meds wise) said: that's odd... Who did prescribe you that many when you have 120/70... I was like: you stupid? I have 120/70 because of the fucking meds dude!
Facepalm
malfeasance
Member
LOL
What was your blood pressure prior to the meds, and what meds did you get prescribed? Was it the polypharmacy all at once, or did you do it in steps?
Have you set out what you did and its effect on blood pressure already? I may have missed it. If not, reading it could help others here.
So my BP before was 130/85 on average, nothing crazy but I wasn't on any serious blast.
I auto prescribed it to myself all the meds and just went to my GP and told her the cardiologist said I need these meds and gave her the list.
So I started with 40mg telmisartan.
Waited two weeks and it wasn't enough.
Added 5mg nebivolol and it was ok the BP but my RHR is still high mainly from the HGH.
BP was like 123/75 on average so after reading of all the benefits of telmisartan especially on the insulin sensitivity at 80mg I said fuck it let's bump it at 80mg.
BP went down slightly but just a pinch and no other side effect reported so I stayed at 80mg telmi + 5mg nebivolol
I tried 10mg nebivolol too, but it was very bad for me, because on the treadmill just walking I couldn't go past 110bpm and even if I started running it was still the same more or less that fucking HR wasn't going up I had to really push it and it was a horrible feeling, like I needed the Heart to push more but something was hold it down (nebivolol) so I backed off from 10mg and said never again.
Funny thing at 10mg my RHR was the same compared to 5mg so completely useless for me.
Now I added 1.5mg of indapamide, trying to see if I can bring the BP at 110/70 instead of 120/70+ it's just a test and not sure I'll keep it.
Will add diltiazem to see if I can reduce my RHR as it's too high on average, I know I could just reduce the HGH but I don't want to, so trying to see if I can fix it this way, mind you I very well know it's not the healthiest approach but better than just saying fuck it and do nothing I guess.
Few other things to note, once I had a very low reading of my diastolic (is that the low number?) like 60/58
It was 110/58
Happened only once and I wasn't feeling bad or anything, I just randomly checked it.
Lately when waking up I measure my BP daily and it's always 115-120/70-73
I have a difference between left and right arms, left is lower, right is higher. The difference is not above 10+ but not far away, so nothing I can do, I usually check both arms 2/3 times each.
I'm still doing my cardio as much as I can with my work schedule, but soon I'll by a treadmill so that I can do everyday at home at least 30 minutes of walking incline so that should help in general.
I'll see how it goes with the diltiazem and if it helps with the RHR and it doesn't drop too much the BP, starting with the minimum dosage of extended release 120mg..not gonna increase further.
AlexDavis43
Member
Propranolol seems better suited for normies and performance anxiety; less so for bodybuilders.
AlexDavis43
Member
@Sampei @malfeasance and any other bodybuilders: why the preference for telmisartan so common here? I've taken that and candesartan and ended up on candesartan. Is there a bodybuilding advantage for telmisartan? Or is it just less expensive and more available. I get candesartan Rx from my cardiologist but could get telmi instead.
Telmisartan has longer half-life and better stability control of BP plus it reduces on average your BP more.
Telmi has metabolic effects on glucose and lipids, it has PPARy activation and few other stuff
Overall it's just better for what I have understood researching it
AlexDavis43
Member
You know I'm not a fan of PPARg activation, but cande does that too.
Candesartan showed some early effects on mental wellness but that might be shared by ARBs in general.
So, the half-life thing. I have no problem taking a half dose in the morning and evening.
If candesartan was less expensive and easier to access, would you take that instead?
Nope.
Candesartan couldn't find anything about lipids/kidney/insulin benefits.
Efficacy on BP reduction is on telmi side too.
To me price is irrelevant, I get 99% of all these meds for free, from BP meds to statins etc. And their prices even if I was going to buy it... Is the same.
8 dollars 1 month of candesartan
6 dollars 1 month of telmisartan
