Doctors Who Aid Torture

Michael Scally MD

Doctor of Medicine
10+ Year Member
Doctors Who Aid Torture
Editorial - Doctors Who Aid Torture - NYTimes.com

EDITORIAL
June 7, 2010

Disturbing new questions have been raised about the role of doctors and other medical professionals in helping the Central Intelligence Agency subject terrorism suspects to harsh treatment, abuse and torture.

The Red Cross previously documented, from interviews with “high-value” prisoners, that medical personnel helped facilitate abuses in the C.I.A.’s “enhanced interrogation program” during the Bush administration. Now Physicians for Human Rights has suggested that the medical professionals may also have violated national and international laws setting limits on what research can be performed on humans.

The physicians’ group, which is based in Cambridge, Mass., analyzed a wide range of previously released government documents and reports, many of them heavily censored. It found that the Bush administration used medical personnel — including doctors, psychologists and physician’s assistants — to help justify acts that had long been classified by law and treaty as illegal or unethical and to redefine them as safe, legal and effective when used on terrorism suspects.

The group’s report focused particularly on a few issues where medical personnel played an important role — determining how far a harsh interrogation could go, providing legal cover against prosecution and designing future interrogation procedures. The actual monitoring data are not publicly available, but the group was able to deduce from the guidelines governing the program what role the health professionals played, assuming they followed the rules.

In the case of waterboarding, a technique in which prisoners are brought to the edge of drowning, health professionals were required to monitor the practice and keep detailed medical records. Their findings led to several changes, including a switch to saline solution as the near-drowning agent instead of water, ostensibly to protect the health of detainees who ingest large volumes of liquid but also, the group says, to allow repeated use of waterboarding on the same subject.

Another government memorandum concluded from medical observations on 25 detainees that combining several techniques — say a face slap with water dousing or a stress kneeling position — caused no more pain than when the techniques were used individually. That was used to justify the application of multiple techniques at the same time.

The group concludes that health professionals who facilitated these practices were in essence conducting research and experimentation on human subjects. The main purposes of such research, the group says, were to determine how to use various techniques, to calibrate the levels of pain and to create a legal basis for defending interrogators from potential prosecution under antitorture laws. The interrogators could claim that they had acted in good faith in accord with medical judgments of safety and had not intended to inflict extreme suffering.

The report from the physicians’ group does not prove its case beyond doubt — how could it when so much is still hidden? — but it rightly calls on the White House and Congress to investigate the potentially illegal human experimentation and whether those who authorized or conducted it should be punished. Those are just two of the many unresolved issues from the Bush administration that President Obama and Congressional leaders have swept under the carpet.
 

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I don't think the pain factor should be the point of focus.Its the cruelness and lack of empathy for the victim as a person.
A soldier generally fights for "his" side.The side of the comunity he is born into.On both sides the soldiers are human and should be treated as such as a virtue of ethics

I think the best way to get information,would be to give them drugs alcohol and sex.:cool:
 
Jast, are you going to give them that? Haha just fuckin with you bro. Not on my dime. We have to do what we have to do.
 
Jast, are you going to give them that? Haha just fuckin with you bro. Not on my dime. We have to do what we have to do.

Ok how about his then.Tell them they can contact their wifes.When they do, go and offer their wives residence.When they come over, take them and fuck them in front of the prisoner until they tell everything, then revoke the residence.
??

Is that cruel,is that torture?
 
Chances are, if you are cuffed to a chair in front of an operator......you fucking deserve to be there. Consider for a moment the amount of time that goes into an extraction. Weeks, months years in some cases. The media portrays these poor victims as 'everyday citizens' snatched up out of their daily lives and brutally tortured without cause or reason. Wrong. These subhuman peices of shit are identified, tracked and then captured by skilled personnel intimately familiar with the subject of their pursuit. By the time you are in that chair the man standing in front of you knows you better that you know yourself. Fuck 'em. There is my crude yet brutally honest two cents. If any of you guys are offended, I forgive you. :D
 
I agree with mayo %110. Chances are if your in that situation you know SOMETHING. Its not like the lottery or getting hit by lightning, you have to be an extra special individual to get all that attention. When that striker pulls up in front of your residence at 3 or 4 am and that 6 man team gets out of the back, flashbangs your fucking face in and whisks you away I personally dont give a shit if they flip you and dip you. Besides when it comes to the subject of torture those fuckers should be happy that its the US doing it to them and not Russia or some other country where they'll remove your fingers and teeth, or your nuts. Those pieces of shit really don't know how good they have it :D I am not trying to offend anyone either but lets face it, would you rather get dunked in water like a clown or have missing body parts....take your pick.
 
I agree with mayo %110. Chances are if your in that situation you know SOMETHING. Its not like the lottery or getting hit by lightning, you have to be an extra special individual to get all that attention. When that striker pulls up in front of your residence at 3 or 4 am and that 6 man team gets out of the back, flashbangs your fucking face in and whisks you away I personally dont give a shit if they flip you and dip you. Besides when it comes to the subject of torture those fuckers should be happy that its the US doing it to them and not Russia or some other country where they'll remove your fingers and teeth, or your nuts. Those pieces of shit really don't know how good they have it :D I am not trying to offend anyone either but lets face it, would you rather get dunked in water like a clown or have missing body parts....take your pick.

Take it from somebody who's been on the inside of some of these operations, nothing we do scares the shit out of the bad guys as much as telling them we're going to let the Egyptians ask them some questions. I've seen more than one go through a couple days of inhanced interrogation only to break down like a baby when we mentioned the Egyptians.
Our medical professionals are not Joseph Mengele. They have on more than one occasion that I've witnessed made the difference between life and death for the target of the interrogation. More often than not they are there to monitor the target's health. Some have helped to develop some interrogation tecniques, but not torture.
Sometimes it takes hard men asking hard questions in an unpleasant manner to insure your right to object! No one, especially the operators like myself enjoy this shit!
 
u don't have to be a terrorist or "extra special person" to get tortured, n some of the most severe legal defeats of the Executive have happened precisely bcuz Big Brother INCOMPETENTLY detemined that someone was guilty, n ended up torturing people either discovered to be innocent later, or even KNOWN to be innocent BY THE TIME TORTURE COMMENCES.

the sheer inertia of Government-sponsored torture makes such gross errors inevitable, and leaves no excuse to medical professionals to violate their sworn oath to do now harm.

it is likely and rightful that State medical boards will commence punishing such involvement. not a lot of room for Internet Douchebaggery in those settings. :)
 
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u don't have to be a terrorist or "extra special person" to get tortured, n some of the most severe legal defeats of the Executive have happened precisely bcuz Big Brother INCOMPETENTLY detemined that someone was guilty, n ended up torturing people either discovered to be innocent later, or even KNOWN to be innocent BY THE TIME TORTURE COMMENCES.

the sheer inertia of Government-sponsored torture makes such gross errors inevitable, and leaves no excuse to medical professionals to violate their sworn oath to do now harm.

it is likely and rightful that State medical boards will commence punishing such involvement. not a lot of room for Internet Douchebaggery in those settings. :)

Jeton... I know your almost smart so stop being a FUCKING DUMB ASS!!! Yes... sometimes there are mistakes made... but they are few and far between...

The scourge of the earth referred to here would cut your fucking head off if they had the chance and sodomize your cold dead lips FOR FUN! Just because they know your a fag...

You should PRAISE our gov't more making their lives miserable because, given the chance, you and your faggot friends would be swiftly placed in the "Dustbin of History", as you call it, if these guys had there way...

In the REAL world shit gets rough... and you have to meet force with equal or excessive force to maintain your position... If America becomes the leftist society the Omabanites and Jetonites want it to be, the Muslims will freely torture ANYONE they want to... WITHOUT REMORSE OR REPERCUSSION...

I say we contract the Egyptians as our interrigators!

I say BRAVO to the doctors using there abilities to keep our country safe... My children sleep safer because of it...

I say LONG LIVE AMERICA!
:popcorn:
 
Jeton... I know your almost smart so stop being a FUCKING DUMB ASS!!! Yes... sometimes there are mistakes made... but they are few and far between...

The scourge of the earth referred to here would cut your fucking head off if they had the chance and sodomize your cold dead lips FOR FUN! Just because they know your a fag...

You should PRAISE our gov't more making their lives miserable because, given the chance, you and your faggot friends would be swiftly placed in the "Dustbin of History", as you call it, if these guys had there way...

In the REAL world shit gets rough... and you have to meet force with equal or excessive force to maintain your position... If America becomes the leftist society the Omabanites and Jetonites want it to be, the Muslims will freely torture ANYONE they want to... WITHOUT REMORSE OR REPERCUSSION...

I say we contract the Egyptians as our interrigators!

I say BRAVO to the doctors using there abilities to keep our country safe... My children sleep safer because of it...

I say LONG LIVE AMERICA!
:popcorn:

:rolleyes: u say alot of really stupid shit, so beware that "LONG LIVE AMERICA!" doesn't get tarred by ur stupidity. u share many of the same deranged goals as Al Qaeda, just with different rituals and different voodoo...but America is not "IronCore from Meso".

:rolleyes:i like how u purposefully ignore the wretched fact that some people have been tortured by the US and its allies AFTER the US had already determined that the persons were innocent of wrongdoing...that u can willfully ignore that makes a complete joke of ur vaunted Christianity.

claim what u like about Jesus of Nazareth, just don't be stupid enuff to pretend he'd be ok with torturing innocent people bcuz "hey, not only do mistakes get made, but sometimes admitting those mistakes is worse than just torturing some innocent shmux! shit happens!"

[:o)]i wonder how u''d treat the RIsen Christ if u met him on a message board...?:popcorn:
 
:rolleyes: u say alot of really stupid shit, so beware that "LONG LIVE AMERICA!" doesn't get tarred by ur stupidity. u share many of the same deranged goals as Al Qaeda, just with different rituals and different voodoo...but America is not "IronCore from Meso".

i like how u purposefully ignore the wretched fact that some people have been tortured by the US and its allies AFTER the US had already determined that the persons were innocent of wrongdoing...that u can willfully ignore that makes a complete joke of ur vaunted Christianity.

claim what u like about Jesus of Nazareth, just don't be stupid enuff to pretend he'd be ok with torturing innocent people bcuz "hey, not only do mistakes get made, but sometimes admitting those mistakes is worse than just torturing some innocent shmux! shit happens!"

i wonder how u''d treat the RIsen Christ if u met him on a message board...?

I may share similar goals... and so did many of our forefathers and military leaders that had built this country into the great nation is was... which has been systematically spit upon by people with selective moral values like yourself. :rolleyes:

It is shameful to see ANYONE complain about torturing those who aim to kill and destroy innocent lives... Furthermore, I have not turned a blind eye to the torture of the innocent... but you and I both KNOW that innocence is relative to what a lawyer can convolute in many cases... don't we...:eek:

I have NEVER seen a case in which John Doe has been randomly selected from his office space and tortured for no reason... Have you? there are typically circumstances surrounding the victims which potentially implicate them.

Don't be mad if you look like a drug dealer, dress like a drug dealer, HANG OUT with drug dealers... and GET TREATED LIKE A DRUG DEALER by the police.... The same goes for terrorist and the lesser forms of human life that we are discussing...:rolleyes:


And why are you bringing Jesus into this? We all know that he wouldn't cast a stone don't we... nor does his word promote Jihad...:eek:

You may try to bring up the crusades at this point... in which you will find where initially began as a response to MUSLIM invasions... :eek:

And if you knew half as much as you thought you did you would know that the Risen Christ will be announced by the trumpet when he returns... And he loves you too...:D

Next?
:popcorn:
 
Jeton, do you honestly think that "please tell us what you're planning, pretty please, with sugar on top?" works? I gauran-damn-tee you I have more hands on personal fucking experience with what you are talking about than you do! Have you ever done a dynamic entry into a hotel room 10 stories up, going in from the roof, in order to grab a target of interest so that we could ask him some questions about a planned subway bombing in New York. An operation and threat the public still has never heard of? We figured that "inhanced interrogation" saved about 500 lives, minimum.
People like you get to run their mouths about shit you only read about, because people like me go into harms way and ask bad men hard questions in a rude manner! To equate IronCore's Christianity with Muslim terrorists is one of the most foul and underhanded things I've ever heard. You should be ashamed of the shit you just spewed out at him. That was fucking uncalled for. We can disagree without being disagreeable.
I'm glad you have your opinion. Feel free to exercise your freedom of speech. I've bled for your right to do that. It's paid for, so use it. But if you can't disagree without getting personal like you did with IronCore, then keep your pie-hole shut.
 
u don't have to be a terrorist or "extra special person" to get tortured, n 1-some of the most severe legal defeats of the Executive have happened precisely bcuz Big 2-Brother INCOMPETENTLY detemined that someone was guilty, n ended up torturing people either discovered to be innocent later, 3-or even KNOWN to be innocent BY THE TIME TORTURE COMMENCES.
the sheer inertia of 4-Government-sponsored torture makes such gross errors inevitable, and leaves 5-no excuse to medical professionals to violate their sworn oath to do now harm.

it is 6-likely and rightful that State medical boards will commence punishing such involvement. not a lot of room for Internet Douchebaggery in those settings. :)

Jeton why do you blather incessantly about topics completely outside your realm of knowledge?

1) Information regarding insurgents is often classified and highly sensitive. Surveillance and intel ops document individuals interacting with other entities within a suspected circle. Many times it is more important to keep our hand hidden than to lay down all of our cards for the sake of preserving America's image.

2) "BIG BROTHER" does not determine anything. Intel for potential extraction ops is gathered by highly skilled operators over weeks, months or years.

3) By the time you have been detained, we know more about you than your own mother. The amount of information special ops and government intel agencies can compile on a single individual is nearly incomprehensible.

4) No such thing. The United States Government has commissioned us with accomplishing a momentus task, the defeat of organized global terrorism. Nowhere did anyone say, "Hey boys lets round up some of these here hajis and torture the fuckers. Hell we'll sponsor it." They simply said, "Get it done." And we will, by any means necessary.

5) Define medical professionals. I was a medic in a prestigious special ops unit. I am trained up to the level of a civilian PA but am not licenced by any authority save Joint Special Operations Command. In an interrogation setting my job was to ensure the health of the detainee. Contrary to popular media bullshit, we do not senselessly beat prisoners or injure them to near death conditions. Enhanced interrogation is based on fear, not pain. Pain clouds the mind and produces lies and inaccuracy. Fear of an impending event gives the individual a choice: Come clean or reap the whirlwind.

6) Tell me Jeton, what state board will come knocking on my door?
 

Bro's... thanks for backing me up on this one....

However, this is typical Jeton... His alligator mouth has overloaded his humming bird ass...

He typically spouts mindless and unfounded leftist rantings as if they are gospel and when disputed and frequently disproved resorts to personal attacks right before he cowers into his homosexual safe haven... He would really fit in well in San Francisco...[:o)]
 
1) I have NEVER seen a case in which John Doe has been randomly selected from his office space and tortured for no reason... Have you? there are typically circumstances surrounding the victims which potentially implicate them.

2) And why are you bringing Jesus into this?

3) You may try to bring up the crusades at this point... in which you will find where initially began as a response to MUSLIM invasions... :eek:

4) And if you knew half as much as you thought you did you would know that the Risen Christ will be announced by the trumpet when he returns... And he loves you too...:D

Next?
:popcorn:

1) it seems u don't read newspapers.
2) bcuz u so often do.
3) wrong again, only sources for ur claim r from rightwing xian voodoo sites.
4) unless "tongue as a sword" simply meant He'd be politically vocal, in which case, He might very well be chained up in Gitmo getting waterboarded right now...[:o)]
 
Jeton, do you honestly think that "please tell us what you're planning, pretty please, with sugar on top?" works? I gauran-damn-tee you I have more hands on personal fucking experience with what you are talking about than you do! Have you ever done a dynamic entry into a hotel room 10 stories up, going in from the roof, in order to grab a target of interest so that we could ask him some questions about a planned subway bombing in New York. An operation and threat the public still has never heard of? We figured that "inhanced interrogation" saved about 500 lives, minimum.
People like you get to run their mouths about shit you only read about, because people like me go into harms way and ask bad men hard questions in a rude manner! To equate IronCore's Christianity with Muslim terrorists is one of the most foul and underhanded things I've ever heard. You should be ashamed of the shit you just spewed out at him. That was fucking uncalled for. We can disagree without being disagreeable.
I'm glad you have your opinion. Feel free to exercise your freedom of speech. I've bled for your right to do that. It's paid for, so use it. But if you can't disagree without getting personal like you did with IronCore, then keep your pie-hole shut.
:rolleyes: fuck u, doofus, he n i "get personal" regularly, n since he started it, i'll be happy to finish it. that's a pretty 2nd rate "Col Jessup--YOU WANT THE TRUTH?! U CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH" speech u did there btw...:popcorn:
 
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