See http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/62297/title/Muscles_remember_past_glory on Science News.
Solo
Solo
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Muscle Memory
- Thread starter solo47
- Start date
Nice
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/62297/title/Muscles_remember_past_glory
'That memory is stored as DNA-containing nuclei, which proliferate when a muscle is exercised. Contrary to previous thinking, those nuclei aren’t lost when muscles atrophy, researchers report online August 16 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The extra nuclei form a type of muscle memory that allows the muscle to bounce back quickly when retrained.
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'“It does fly in the face of a lot of peer-reviewed, published data,” he says. But the selective death of just some of the nuclei in a muscle cell would require a special kind of apoptosis. “The conventional wisdom doesn’t make much sense from a cell and molecular perspective,” Schwartz says. Gunderson’s group has come up with an explanation that seems more plausible. “Their data just feels right.”
'If the results hold up in people, sports agencies may want to reconsider how long they ban athletes suspended for taking steroids. Previous research has shown that testosterone boosts the number of nuclei in muscle cells beyond the amount produced by working out. “If you have nuclei that last forever, then you would also have an advantage that could last forever,” Gundersen says.
'Well, maybe not exactly forever. As people age, their ability to build muscle mass declines. The new study suggests that pumping muscles full of nuclei early in life could help stave off muscle loss with age. “This could be an argument for mandatory physical training in schools,” Saltin says.'
ChaseQ
New Member
I guess my muscles have Alzheimers
)][)]
)][)]
Myonuclei acquired by overload exercise precede hypertrophy and are not lost on detraining
J. C. Bruusgaard, I. B. Johansen, I. M. Egner, Z. A. Rana, and K. Gundersen 1
+ Author Affiliations
Department of Molecular Biosciences, University of Oslo, 0371 Oslo, Norway
Edited by Gerald D. Fischbach, The Simons Foundation, New York, NY, and approved July 16, 2010 (received for review December 4, 2009)
Abstract
Effects of previous strength training can be long-lived, even after prolonged subsequent inactivity, and retraining is facilitated by a previous training episode. Traditionally, such “muscle memory” has been attributed to neural factors in the absence of any identified local memory mechanism in the muscle tissue. We have used in vivo imaging techniques to study live myonuclei belonging to distinct muscle fibers and observe that new myonuclei are added before any major increase in size during overload. The old and newly acquired nuclei are retained during severe atrophy caused by subsequent denervation lasting for a considerable period of the animal's lifespan. The myonuclei seem to be protected from the high apoptotic activity found in inactive muscle tissue. A hypertrophy episode leading to a lasting elevated number of myonuclei retarded disuse atrophy, and the nuclei could serve as a cell biological substrate for such memory. Because the ability to create myonuclei is impaired in the elderly, individuals may benefit from strength training at an early age, and because anabolic steroids facilitate more myonuclei, nuclear permanency may also have implications for exclusion periods after a doping offense.
J. C. Bruusgaard, I. B. Johansen, I. M. Egner, Z. A. Rana, and K. Gundersen 1
+ Author Affiliations
Department of Molecular Biosciences, University of Oslo, 0371 Oslo, Norway
Edited by Gerald D. Fischbach, The Simons Foundation, New York, NY, and approved July 16, 2010 (received for review December 4, 2009)
Abstract
Effects of previous strength training can be long-lived, even after prolonged subsequent inactivity, and retraining is facilitated by a previous training episode. Traditionally, such “muscle memory” has been attributed to neural factors in the absence of any identified local memory mechanism in the muscle tissue. We have used in vivo imaging techniques to study live myonuclei belonging to distinct muscle fibers and observe that new myonuclei are added before any major increase in size during overload. The old and newly acquired nuclei are retained during severe atrophy caused by subsequent denervation lasting for a considerable period of the animal's lifespan. The myonuclei seem to be protected from the high apoptotic activity found in inactive muscle tissue. A hypertrophy episode leading to a lasting elevated number of myonuclei retarded disuse atrophy, and the nuclei could serve as a cell biological substrate for such memory. Because the ability to create myonuclei is impaired in the elderly, individuals may benefit from strength training at an early age, and because anabolic steroids facilitate more myonuclei, nuclear permanency may also have implications for exclusion periods after a doping offense.
MAYO
New Member
ChaseQ
New Member
Dont hate because I have retard strength!-or Downs Syndrome [
Jeton
New Member
great article...i've often read that part of muscle memory was related to having stretched out muscle-fascia, and i've alwasys found myself during bouts of weight loss that returning to my high-mark weight is always easier than exceeding that high mark. i wonder if there's any truth to the fascia theory, and if so how it would work in tandam with this discovery that enhanced cell nuclei persist...?
MAYO
New Member
The whole FST-7 training program is based on the theory that restriction by fascia is a primary limiting factor in muscle growth. FST-7 allegedly carried Cutler to Olympia.
Yea, so pull the other one[)] You just figure that out old timer??
I am the worst about that. I can go back in the gym and bench 85% of weight previous 1 year ago on the first day, and then not return to that strength again for another 1.5 months of steady work.... as I have destroyed myself due to. NOT everyone has that I have witnessed. Its a curse....
Nice tan. Did all that melanotan talk stir ya up....
Feels good to be able to call someone else old by the way. Just had to do it....
)] You just figure that out old timer??I am the worst about that. I can go back in the gym and bench 85% of weight previous 1 year ago on the first day, and then not return to that strength again for another 1.5 months of steady work.... as I have destroyed myself due to. NOT everyone has that I have witnessed. Its a curse....
Nice tan. Did all that melanotan talk stir ya up....
Feels good to be able to call someone else old by the way. Just had to do it....
Jeton
New Member
thanks, u've sent me on a googling spree...at the top was
FST-7: Training Doctrine by Hany Rambod
i've got a bit of reading to do...
Any time you see a new scientific discovery, the first reaction of the media and many others is to resort to "single cause" thinking. You see this often with genetic discoveries especially when they involve weight loss probably because people are so desperately looking for THE answer to weight loss. They don't want to believe it is complicated and multifactoral.
You see it with steroids too e.g. "if steroids increase the risk of heart disease, then everyone (or at least all athletes) who dies of cardiovascular-related events must be because of steroids!"
I think Dan Duchaine was one of the first to propose the "fascia stretching" theory. This was the rationale and justification for extreme bulking phases in the off-season. He also suggest this could be why synthol (site enhancement oil) could work i.e. there was nothing special about the oil itself and that any muscle growth that occurred was simply result of stretching fascia allowing more room for muscle to expand.
I see no reason why "increased nuclei", "fascia stretching", and probably a few dozen other variables explain "muscle memory".
Yea, so pull the other one[
I am the worst about that. I can go back in the gym and bench 85% of weight previous 1 year ago on the first day, and then not return to that strength again for another 1.5 months of steady work.... as I have destroyed myself due to. NOT everyone has that I have witnessed. Its a curse....
Nice tan. Did all that melanotan talk stir ya up....
Feels good to be able to call someone else old by the way. Just had to do it....
Years 0 to 12 - childhood (early & late)
Years 13 to 19 - youth (early & late)
Years 21 to 39 - primary (early & late)
Years 40 to 59 - middle age (early to late)
Years 60 to 80 - old age (early to late)
Over 80 - conscious, bonus! senile, better than nothing.
So, yes, I am old. But in the "old" category, I'm just a beginner!
(No, no melanotan, just work in the back yard under Sol.)
Solo
Yea, U know I'm just pokin...... I like that "chart". I figure about the same, and that I have 20 years left prior to "Old", when stuff is really going to start to break in normal/heavy use.... nearing 40 and I am figuring basically 66% of my life is gone.... Depressing in some ways, comforting in others. I personally suspect people "know" when its time to move on. And who knows what lies!??!? And if there is nothing, then it doesn't matter anyway. So what we do now is VERY IMPORTANT... Right??
By the way. I am not sure what you are referring to with old age. Senile IS THE BONUS PLAN. and that that other one where you just wander down the street babbling must be heaven on earth (alzhiemers)[)][)] Thats when we worry are free. Its the ones taking care of you that it sucks for....
I just fear I am going to be one of the more hilarious ones.....
By the way. I am not sure what you are referring to with old age. Senile IS THE BONUS PLAN. and that that other one where you just wander down the street babbling must be heaven on earth (alzhiemers)[
)][)] Thats when we worry are free. Its the ones taking care of you that it sucks for.... I just fear I am going to be one of the more hilarious ones.....Years 0 to 12 - childhood (early & late)
Years 13 to 19 - youth (early & late)
Years 21 to 39 - primary (early & late)
Years 40 to 59 - middle age (early to late)
Years 60 to 80 - old age (early to late)
Over 80 - conscious, bonus! senile, better than nothing.
So, yes, I am old. But in the "old" category, I'm just a beginner!
(No, no melanotan, just work in the back yard under Sol.)
Solo
Muscle Memory Induced By Steroid Use
Egner IM, Bruusgaard JC, Eftestøl E, Gundersen K. A cellular memory mechanism aids overload hypertrophy in muscle long after an episodic exposure to anabolic steroids Muscle memory induced by steroid use. The Journal of Physiology. A cellular memory mechanism aids overload hypertrophy in muscle long after an episodic exposure to anabolic steroids Muscle memory induced by steroid use - Egner - The Journal of Physiology - Wiley Online Library
Previous strength training with or without the use of anabolic steroids facilitates subsequent re-acquisition of muscle mass even after long intervening periods of inactivity. Based on in vivo and ex vivo microscopy we here propose a cellular memory mechanism residing in the muscle cells.
Female mice were treated with testosterone propionate for 14 days, inducing a 66% increase in the number of myonuclei and a 77% increase in fibre cross sectional area.
Three weeks after removing the drug, fibre size was decreased to the same level as in sham treated animals, but the number of nuclei remained elevated for at least 3 months (>10% of the mouse lifespan).
At this time, when the myonuclei-rich muscles were exposed to overload-exercise for 6 days, the fibre cross sectional area increased by 31% while control muscles did not grow significantly.
We suggest that the lasting, elevated number of myonuclei constitutes a cellular memory facilitating subsequent muscle overload hypertrophy. Our findings might have consequences for the exclusion time of doping offenders.
Since the ability to generate new myonuclei is impaired in the elderly our data also invites speculation that it might be beneficial to perform strength training when young in order to benefit in senescence.
Egner IM, Bruusgaard JC, Eftestøl E, Gundersen K. A cellular memory mechanism aids overload hypertrophy in muscle long after an episodic exposure to anabolic steroids Muscle memory induced by steroid use. The Journal of Physiology. A cellular memory mechanism aids overload hypertrophy in muscle long after an episodic exposure to anabolic steroids Muscle memory induced by steroid use - Egner - The Journal of Physiology - Wiley Online Library
Previous strength training with or without the use of anabolic steroids facilitates subsequent re-acquisition of muscle mass even after long intervening periods of inactivity. Based on in vivo and ex vivo microscopy we here propose a cellular memory mechanism residing in the muscle cells.
Female mice were treated with testosterone propionate for 14 days, inducing a 66% increase in the number of myonuclei and a 77% increase in fibre cross sectional area.
Three weeks after removing the drug, fibre size was decreased to the same level as in sham treated animals, but the number of nuclei remained elevated for at least 3 months (>10% of the mouse lifespan).
At this time, when the myonuclei-rich muscles were exposed to overload-exercise for 6 days, the fibre cross sectional area increased by 31% while control muscles did not grow significantly.
We suggest that the lasting, elevated number of myonuclei constitutes a cellular memory facilitating subsequent muscle overload hypertrophy. Our findings might have consequences for the exclusion time of doping offenders.
Since the ability to generate new myonuclei is impaired in the elderly our data also invites speculation that it might be beneficial to perform strength training when young in order to benefit in senescence.
Re: Muscle Memory Induced By Steroid Use
9/8/09. (~16 weeks progress)
9/8/09. (~16 weeks progress)
Re: Muscle Memory Induced By Steroid Use
Where's the recommendation for steroid use when young in order to "benefit in senescence"? After all, AAS induced an increase in the number of myonuclei by 66%. Strength training has muscle memory and steroid use has muscle memory. Nice.
Where's the recommendation for steroid use when young in order to "benefit in senescence"? After all, AAS induced an increase in the number of myonuclei by 66%. Strength training has muscle memory and steroid use has muscle memory. Nice.
DieYoungStrong
New Member
Re: Muscle Memory Induced By Steroid Use
I believe this. After my accident years ago, I stopped aas for 5 years and stopped going to the gym for 3.
After my return cycle this summer my conditioning and mass almost went right back to when I was at a personal best in 10 weeks. I'm like 10 lbs or so lighter then I was, but the transformation was crazy. I don't think I had those kinds of results on my first cycle.
I believe this. After my accident years ago, I stopped aas for 5 years and stopped going to the gym for 3.
After my return cycle this summer my conditioning and mass almost went right back to when I was at a personal best in 10 weeks. I'm like 10 lbs or so lighter then I was, but the transformation was crazy. I don't think I had those kinds of results on my first cycle.
Re: Muscle Memory Induced By Steroid Use
For some people, especially those who have been training 10-20+ years, taking a couple of months entirely away from the gym every year is a good thing. The rapid transformation upon the return is incredibly motivating.
For some people, especially those who have been training 10-20+ years, taking a couple of months entirely away from the gym every year is a good thing. The rapid transformation upon the return is incredibly motivating.
Sworder
Member
Re: Muscle Memory Induced By Steroid Use
This is a very interesting subject!
This is a very interesting subject!
Re: Muscle Memory Induced By Steroid Use
Very interesting material. Being this is my first post on this forum, I don't expect my experience to carry much weight, but I have experienced the same thing. Over the last 15 years of training I have been out of the game a few times. The last being up till 6 weeks ago. I'm on what I'd consider a moderate/mild cycle or Test E 500mg/wk and once again, as with the other couple of times, I'm growing back to my old self in no time. Muscle memory is awesome. Juice memory would be even better.
Running the PHAT routine with it. I absolutely love it. Designed by a so called natural BB'r but it crosses over very nicely. I recommend giving it a read and a try as well.
Very interesting material. Being this is my first post on this forum, I don't expect my experience to carry much weight, but I have experienced the same thing. Over the last 15 years of training I have been out of the game a few times. The last being up till 6 weeks ago. I'm on what I'd consider a moderate/mild cycle or Test E 500mg/wk and once again, as with the other couple of times, I'm growing back to my old self in no time. Muscle memory is awesome. Juice memory would be even better.
Running the PHAT routine with it. I absolutely love it. Designed by a so called natural BB'r but it crosses over very nicely. I recommend giving it a read and a try as well.
