Fluoroquinolone

Also -
AVOID ALL CORTICOSTEROIDS...even topical cream has been known to make individuals much worse. Also try to avoid food you suspect may be tainted with quinolones...Turkey...some farmed fish...if you can afford it, I'd try and eat organic.
 
Thanks for the response and kind thoughts, CubbieBlue, and sorry for the delayed reply.

I hope you and everyone else are doing OK.

Read back through your postings - here are some thoughts about some things . . .

FOOD

Since my Cipro reaction, I've eaten no meat (or milk, cheese, etc). Only caught-in-the-wild fish. I would like to re-introduce other meats, but am not clear about the state of fq regulation in the U.S. Farmed fish are clearly out, as are beef and pork (I think), but what about poultry?

http://www.keepantibioticsworking.com/new/indepth_fluoro.cfm

I've not eaten chicken or turkey since either, but perhaps the 2005 ruling makes poultry safe? I've not succeeded, by the way, in removing eggs from my diet. If my poultry understanding is incorrect, though, will do so.

In general I'm pretty confused about the situation of FQs used for industrial animals.

CYCLES

No clue. I appreciated your attempt to think though this. In an attempt to understand my own reaction, I've maintained a daily record of my reaction, posted at

http://ciprorecovery.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/fq_chart_2011_06_212.png

As you can see late May / most of June was a tough month - it was my first serious relapse. It's ended now, for which I'm extremely grateful. The anxiety (racing heart, sense of dread), heart palpitations, and particularly the depression (suicidal thoughts) really threw me. Once out of it, I was really taken aback - never experienced anything like that before in my life.

SEVERITY

While only knowing the details of what you've posted, CubbieBlue, I also want to encourage some hopefulness with re to the severity of your reaction. I hope you - and me and anyone else reading - will avoid the severe path you've mentioned you fear you're on. I overlaid some time ago my own symptoms with the flox report's indications, with results posted at

http://ciprorecovery.wordpress.com/

I'm pretty squarely in the Intermediate camp and hope to remain there. I hope perhaps that's the same for you too?

CORTISONE

As I mentioned, my right wrist has been, for almost six months now, completely immobilized - thoroughly disabled. I'd be interested in any success stories or successful treatments for concomitant local cortisone injections / fluoroquinolone reactions if anyone reading is in this same camp.

SUPPLEMENTS

I have, at periods throughout this ordeal, regularly taken magnesium, B-complex, zinc, fish oil, C, Calcium, glucosamine / chondroitin, and a few others.

It is my opinion, from reading and experience, that they make no difference. I would like to be educated otherwise.

IL GATHERING

Hell yes . . . name the time and place.

Wishing you all a successful recovery.
 
Hey guys,

i got 'floxed' by cipro about 3 months ago... all i took was 2 500mg tabs in one day (for the first time ever. ive never had a fluoroquinolone before).... i stoppd after dat cos got joint pain almost immediately after 2nd tab and i started shiverin like hell...

i noticed there isnt really any good news on here about going back to the gym.. makes me more depressd..

my symptoms are knee tendonitis, and ankle tendonitis, and some eye floaters... i havnt been back to the gym since i got floxed... jus done light stretching at home and some unweighted lunges..

has anyone here had any luck at going back to weights at the gym.. or do u know of anyone?

i need something to look forward to
 
I've mentioned this to Cubbie personally... You guys really might try astaxanthin. It works amazingly well for joint pain and tendinitis. I take 8mg per day myself and have gotten many friends and family to take it as well. I've read about people taking as much as 24mg a day. Just go to iHerb and search for it and you will find hundreds of reviews from people that swear by it. I take Nutrex BioAstin. If any of you try it please post here with your results.
 
does it heal the tendons or is it just a pain killer?

i duno if it would help fluoroquinolone induced tendonitis.. it's different to normal tendonitis
 
does it heal the tendons or is it just a pain killer?

i duno if it would help fluoroquinolone induced tendonitis.. it's different to normal tendonitis

From what I've read it heals them. It's definitely not just a pain killer. It's not expensive either. I paid $19 for a bottle that lasts 2 months at the dose I'm taking (2 pills per day).
 
Hey guys,

i got 'floxed' by cipro about 3 months ago... all i took was 2 500mg tabs in one day (for the first time ever. ive never had a fluoroquinolone before).... i stoppd after dat cos got joint pain almost immediately after 2nd tab and i started shiverin like hell...

i noticed there isnt really any good news on here about going back to the gym.. makes me more depressd..

my symptoms are knee tendonitis, and ankle tendonitis, and some eye floaters... i havnt been back to the gym since i got floxed... jus done light stretching at home and some unweighted lunges..

has anyone here had any luck at going back to weights at the gym.. or do u know of anyone?

i need something to look forward to

Are those your only symptoms?

I stopped going to the gym for a few weeks at a time, but never completely. I always kept on doing SOMETHING. I am now back in the gym 2-3x per week doing pretty much everything I did before with a watchful eye on myself. I still snack, crackle, and pop like a motherfucker.

I haven't tried the astaxanthin yet but I am going to give it a shot soon.

I am going to see a physiatrist (pronounced: fiziatrist) later on this month to do further x-rays and maybe an MRI to determine if I have any visible physical damage. I am concerned I may have a labrum tear in my shoulder.

Kay Man, you'll get through it. It just will take you time. Never take a quinolone ever again. Read this whole thread.
 
Just thought I would add something that dawned on me may not have been addressed. I dont know if this will help with the fix, but one of the primary reasons that quinolone antibiotics are so nasty for some, and perhaps somewhat negative in some ways for most, IS THAT THEY ARE FLOURIDE BASED. So go figure and go look up all the flouride conspiracy out there. But it has something to do with the heavy hangtime and strong degree of action. Basically a huge DISRUPTION in many ways.... So I just thought I would offer that to chew on ...

At least I THINK I have my apples and apples together. So I just never sought more info as I got away clean...
 
Whichs begs the question of metabolism. Why do some people " accumulate " toxins while other are able to eat, drink, brush with whatever toothpaste they please.
 
Just thought I would add something that dawned on me may not have been addressed. I dont know if this will help with the fix, but one of the primary reasons that quinolone antibiotics are so nasty for some, and perhaps somewhat negative in some ways for most, IS THAT THEY ARE FLOURIDE BASED. So go figure and go look up all the flouride conspiracy out there. But it has something to do with the heavy hangtime and strong degree of action. Basically a huge DISRUPTION in many ways.... So I just thought I would offer that to chew on ...

At least I THINK I have my apples and apples together. So I just never sought more info as I got away clean...

Fluoride has nothing to do with it. There are a shit ton of fluoride drugs that have none of these side effects. There are also a bunch of malaria drugs that are essentially FQs that have many of the same side effects - Lariam is one.
 
To the prevous poster that mentioned the increased risk with cortstrds: Just some Wiki stuff. But it does seem the P-450 is pretty poplular and there appear to be many drugs that increase the effects.....

InteractionsTheophylline, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs and corticosteroids enhance the toxicity of fluoroquinolones.[62][63][64]

Products containing multivalent cations, such as aluminum- or magnesium-containing antacids and products containing calcium, iron, or zinc, invariably result in marked reduction of oral absorption of fluoroquinolones.[65]

Other drugs that interact with fluoroquinolones include antacids, sucralfate, probenecid, cimetidine, warfarin, antiviral agents, phenytoin, cyclosporine, rifampin, pyrazinamide, and cycloserine.[64]

Many fluoroquinolones, especially ciprofloxacin, inhibit the cytochrome P450 isoform CYP1A2.[66] This inhibition causes an increased level of, for example, antidepressants such as amitriptyline and imipramine, clozapine (an atypical antipsychotic), caffeine, olanzapine (an atypical antipsychotic), ropivacaine (a local anaesthetic), theophylline (a xanthine), and zolmitriptan (a serotonin receptor agonist).[66]


ALL of the quinolone family seem to have some similarities in risks, and yet some illicit extremely different worst case scenarios.

Regarding the increased C. Diff and staph incidence. I could only speculate that this again has to do with the length of the drugs actions, and thus also having a lingering, but still occurring effect of colon/skin. Perhaps just the pure power of the total destruction of these bacteria though is the cause, and there are no "friendlies" left to protect. The effect is stated as "a cellular level DNA disruption". So I guess one should be gobbling yogourt whilst smearing dogshit on their skin every day for a couple month post discontinuation. Really, I do find it interesting that no one fucuses on bacterial REPOPULATION. They kinda do with colon, but why not skin??

Sorry I am getting there... I agree with you that Florine may not have much to do. Just pointing out. Although this IS SIGNIFICANT in the DURATION of the drugs ACTION. I also noted it interesting that they state not to give these antibiotics to heavy Benzo users as the drug will apparently effect the CNS receptors in a way that could cause a good enough blockage of the XANAX receptors to cause immediate sever withdrawal symptoms. So this is the admission. And theres the proof too. So now you know its working on the CNS receptors, which I would assume IS RELATED TO TENDON RUPTURE. My experience is that the receptors were stimulated in an involuntarily contracted kinda way. I would also assume THIS is the reason for the tears of tendons. You can only keep a muscle contracted for so long, VOLUNTARILY. The reason for this is that as it tires, the CNS fails to stimulate it AS A SAFTEY MECHANISM AS WELL. So continued stimulation of a muscle like the achilles would not be good. But this applies throughout the body. The achilles is just a muscle that undergoes MASSIVE LOADS in a shit or get off the pot style... So its sink of swim for that one when it comes to LOAD APPLIED.

But you mentioned some other effects I think. Like skeletal/knee. Not sure now. YOU said Floride has nothing to do but contrair -

Excessive exposure to fluoride causes an arthrtiic bone disease called skeletal fluorosis.

There just happens to be something about the nature of this combination of Floride/Flourine that makes it different. ALL DRUGS are different even by the slightest modification to the molecular structure. One chromisome is the difference from you even being born with eyes, etc. This is a great lie used to service some concepts - that similar molecular design means similar results.. NOT True... The molecular effects to skeletal are described as making bone harder and LESS porous. So this is why only a few breif blasts by the dentist as a youth. Regardless, Floride's HARNENING EFFECT on teeth, may not necessarily be welcomed on bones throughout the body, and for a life time..... Unfortunately it would seem that short of STEM CELLs or GH applied young enough, any bone damage may be a case of premature aging and only reversible by some high end tricks.

I am done for now. But the point is that while may drugs have a flouride base, it does not mean they are acting like flourides. Also I think that the variance in why some have certain problems taking these drugs is due to DIET, Other Drugs, Or genetic predispositions of certain elemental compositions in the body. Truth be told there is probably enough data out there allready to weed out who is a good candidate and who is not. THIS IS WHERE HAVING SOME $CHANGE$ to be treated by a physician outside normal circles would benefit. I am certain whoever is treating Steve Jobs currently, aint operating by current medical practice guidlines and restrictions.

I am only trying to open some doors for you as I think you may be swimming in CIRCLES OF FURY....:)

Fluoride has nothing to do with it. There are a shit ton of fluoride drugs that have none of these side effects. There are also a bunch of malaria drugs that are essentially FQs that have many of the same side effects - Lariam is one.
 
well i had some hand weakness too but that's gotten better

I had a saliva cortisol test done a few weeks ago (24 hr saliva test) and it showed my cortisol levels were too high the whole day... i think dat's y i had such a quick reaction. the cortisol is the body's natural corticosteroid... i duno if its a good thing that i had a quick reaction since dat means i only took 2 pills... or if it doesnt matter cos the damage is already done...

yeah im completely avoiding ALL pharmaceuticals (esp quinolones) unless i'm dying in a hospital bed and i have to take something....
the gay thing is, im a pharmacist... and now i hate the pharm industry

Other info about me: 23 yrs old ... was fit before all this ... did not take any NSAIDS or corticosteroids
 
Do y'all know of any people that had full recoveries and were able to get back to bodybuilding?

Right now I am dealing with tendon problems which where not there pre antibotic. I am getting an MRI done soon to find out what is up. My arm can not striaghten all the way out and it is affecting my lifts significanty. Been off of them 4 months.. It was just 5 days..
 
I dont know if you saw a post way back on this. But AVELOX got my arms pretty good. By day 4 I noticed when awakening in the morning or even in the middle of the night, I could not sraighten them quickly due to the pain. I felt like it was in the fore arm on the top side where attached to elbow. Had to quit after nine days total and they were pretty locked up at the end. But cleared up within two weeks. Obviously, you know you should let clear prior to exercise. But 4 months. WOW. That sounds like you sustained some partial tearing. As I mentioned in a recent post. I suspect the tendon injuries are due to excessive and constant CNS stimulation at the muscle/tendon intersection, and way beyond what the brain would otherwise allow for. So I will be intersted in the results...


Right now I am dealing with tendon problems which where not there pre antibotic. I am getting an MRI done soon to find out what is up. My arm can not striaghten all the way out and it is affecting my lifts significanty. Been off of them 4 months.. It was just 5 days..
 
I dont know if you saw a post way back on this. But AVELOX got my arms pretty good. By day 4 I noticed when awakening in the morning or even in the middle of the night, I could not sraighten them quickly due to the pain. I felt like it was in the fore arm on the top side where attached to elbow. Had to quit after nine days total and they were pretty locked up at the end. But cleared up within two weeks. Obviously, you know you should let clear prior to exercise. But 4 months. WOW. That sounds like you sustained some partial tearing. As I mentioned in a recent post. I suspect the tendon injuries are due to excessive and constant CNS stimulation at the muscle/tendon intersection, and way beyond what the brain would otherwise allow for. So I will be intersted in the results...

Yes I talked to a few lifters that had same issue with the tendons and it matches my symptoms completely. They did injections of chicken cartliege guided by ultra sound deep in the joint and they where fine in 8 weeks. It does not hurt just annoying when I lift. I might try some DMSO on it to see if I can reduce inflammation. I used DMSO back in the day on my shoulders and cleared it up in matter of a few days.
 
Right now I am dealing with tendon problems which where not there pre antibotic. I am getting an MRI done soon to find out what is up. My arm can not striaghten all the way out and it is affecting my lifts significanty. Been off of them 4 months.. It was just 5 days..

I doubt the MRI will have any significant findings...either way, keep this thread posted.

There is a new story on the facebook group about a young guy who had a TEN MONTH delayed reaction and his now more or less disabled.

:eek:
 
Yes I talked to a few lifters that had same issue with the tendons and it matches my symptoms completely. They did injections of chicken cartliege guided by ultra sound deep in the joint and they where fine in 8 weeks. It does not hurt just annoying when I lift. I might try some DMSO on it to see if I can reduce inflammation. I used DMSO back in the day on my shoulders and cleared it up in matter of a few days.

Chicken cartilage? Are you talking about adequan or legend or something similar? I've heard a few success stories but a lot of failures as well. I tried it and it caused a minor anaphylactic reaction...which is why it was taken off of the human market in Europe.
 
well i had some hand weakness too but that's gotten better

I had a saliva cortisol test done a few weeks ago (24 hr saliva test) and it showed my cortisol levels were too high the whole day... i think dat's y i had such a quick reaction. the cortisol is the body's natural corticosteroid... i duno if its a good thing that i had a quick reaction since dat means i only took 2 pills... or if it doesnt matter cos the damage is already done...

yeah im completely avoiding ALL pharmaceuticals (esp quinolones) unless i'm dying in a hospital bed and i have to take something....
the gay thing is, im a pharmacist... and now i hate the pharm industry

Other info about me: 23 yrs old ... was fit before all this ... did not take any NSAIDS or corticosteroids

High cortisol levels immediately after have been reported as common.
 
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