virilisation pictures

[Axl]

It has been a few months since I've started my T treatment. I'm hypogonadal: I have been like that all my life. So I look like a teenager at age 32. I have no beard, small tiny arms and legs, no chest hair, no facial hair, no hair om arms, very little muscle mass, a high pitch voice, etc...
I 've read on this forum that Female-to-Male (FTM) transgenders have achieved better results by now than I have. That made me curious: are they more succesfull, what type of T do they use etc.
In this link you can see the pics of the virilisation results of a FTM on a weekly dosage of 100mg T cypionate IM weekly.

http://dklance.tripod.com/lanceryannet/id29.html

It seems clear that I am lagging behind...I show no signs of virilisation apart from some hairgrowth around my belly button... I will never look like a man...even females develop more easily than I do....that's sooooo depressing.... I was born as a man, I want to be a man: is that too much to ask?

 

[kidsxx5]

Are you also doing 100mg T cypionate IM weekly? If so, that would be curious why you are not seeing any changes.

 

[Axl]

No, after trying Pregnyl (HCG) as a standalone treatment to kickstart my HPTA las year (I did that for 6 months), there was a period of 6 months doing nothing but visiting various endo's and doing more bloodwork.
I started in June this year with 250 mg T enanthate every two weeks. I know it's not the best TRT protocol, but hey: if you finally find a doc that is willing to treat you, you take what you can get... Anyway, this guy is really knowlegdeable and I can discuss treatment options in an open manner. I trust him. However, the T enanthate did not get my levels high enough. My T was 266 ng/dl on day 14. My old baseline was always around 200-220 ng/dl. The doc was supprised to see how low I still was. My E2 was 39. Free T was 149,1....

We did extra bloodwork and adjusted the treatment last september: 250 mg T enanthate every 10 days and 0,25 mg Arimidex every 3 days. I will do extra bloodwork this week to further adjust the treatment.

 

[caos]

You got to give it more time.

First, FTM's usually need 6+ months to get things like male hair distribution, deeper voice and enlarging of the clitoris and 2+ years for the full effects. The chick from you link started out pretty hairy, in the first place.

Second, don't generalize from FTM to real men. It's temping, and researches do try at times, but it is like comparing apples and, well, girl apples. There is a very different hormonal environment between men and women. Just because both women and hypogonadal men have lower T then normal men doesn't make them comparable.

It does seem that you have a poor response with the IM T, do you have your DHT levels? It would seem to make sense to look at the complete range of hormones that T can convert into to see whether you are not getting the T available to you body or if your body is turning it into something else.

 

[mranak]

We did extra bloodwork and adjusted the treatment last september: 250 mg T enanthate every 10 days and 0,25 mg Arimidex every 3 days. I will do extra bloodwork this week to further adjust the treatment.

Weekly injections are necessary for stable serum testosterone levels. But I'm sure you already know that.

 

[love_en]

Every 10 days is the maximum one should stretch out an injection. I have read that some FTM's inject a full 250 per week. As liberal as Europe is about testosterone, they do hang on to the obsolete practice of a 250 mg injection. Multiple dose vials are not made in Europe. I know it is way over what is recomended, but 250mg/week is guaranteed to virilize almost any man, provided most of it does not turn into E. I would not try it myself, because short-term results are not my goal.

I have interesting heredity. My father's family is tall, thin and kind of hairy. My mother's family is short, big-boned and smooth. One of my mother's brothers is my height and about 150lbs. I would be more than satisfied to be that size. So far, the T is doing what I want it to do. I will accept a boyish face, but not the body of a little boy.

 

[Axl]

You got to give it more time.

First, FTM's usually need 6+ months to get things like male hair distribution, deeper voice and enlarging of the clitoris and 2+ years for the full effects. The chick from you link started out pretty hairy, in the first place.

Second, don't generalize from FTM to real men. It's temping, and researches do try at times, but it is like comparing apples and, well, girl apples. There is a very different hormonal environment between men and women. Just because both women and hypogonadal men have lower T then normal men doesn't make them comparable.

It does seem that you have a poor response with the IM T, do you have your DHT levels? It would seem to make sense to look at the complete range of hormones that T can convert into to see whether you are not getting the T available to you body or if your body is turning it into something else.

My DHT was in range. Only my DHEA was high. Is has been high at every test over the last two years. This time it was 332g/dl.
Uptil now, I never got a copy of my bloodwork. As of today, I always get a copy of my bloodwork.

 

[Axl]

Weekly injections are necessary for stable serum testosterone levels. But I'm sure you already know that.

Yes

 

[HeadDoc]

Axl, I was actually impressed with the changes over such a short period of time. You are creating change that has been life long. I have a healthy respect for developmental change vs. intervention for more acute disorders. The board reflects the presence of multiple types of hypogonadism. Hang in there buddy! Things look like they are turning around for you.

 

[Axl]

Axl, I was actually impressed with the changes over such a short period of time. You are creating change that has been life long. I have a healthy respect for developmental change vs. intervention for more acute disorders. The board reflects the presence of multiple types of hypogonadism. Hang in there buddy! Things look like they are turning around for you.

Headdoc, what changes are you referring to? That little bit of hair around my belly button??? I hope you're not referring to the pics.....just to be clear: that's NOT me, that is a transgender person (for whom I have great respect because he/she has the courage to share that personal info over the internet.)

 

[HeadDoc]

my bad, guess I'll have to read these thread when I'm more awake. I thought that was you. I've worked with people with developmental lags for many years and just do not expect quick turn of events. It's just my perspective.

 

[Axl]

my bad, guess I'll have to read these thread when I'm more awake. I thought that was you. I've worked with people with developmental lags for many years and just do not expect quick turn of events. It's just my perspective.

You have worked with people with developmental lags? Now that's interesting. What is the average time it took these people for their "turn of events"?? That information would really help me, because I have no idea how long I should wait it out...

My old PCP told me to wait it out when I was 16, 17, 18, 19,..., 24, 25 years old. Nothing ever happened. We missed the opportunity there to get things normalised back then. He even kicked me out of his doctor's office because I kept on asking about it. So you understand that I am really anxious to know what I can expect in how many time....if you have some info: please do share it with me.

 

[James23]

Axl,

Iv'e had problems similar to yours. I still have a very boyish face (I get mistaken for being 17), no body, no sex drive, and my facial hair only grew in on my neck!

Thing is, after about two years on various types of T therapies, the only signs of manliness I was able to get were hair on my chest (minimal) and male pattern baldness! Obviously, I'm not exactly keen on that last one.

Do you still have a youthful hairline at 32?

 

[Axl]

Axl,

Iv'e had problems similar to yours. I still have a very boyish face (I get mistaken for being 17), no body, no sex drive, and my facial hair only grew in on my neck!

Thing is, after about two years on various types of T therapies, the only signs of manliness I was able to get were hair on my chest (minimal) and male pattern baldness! Obviously, I'm not exactly keen on that last one.

Do you still have a youthful hairline at 32?

No, my hairline is slowly going up. The thing is, when you got no beard and you're bold, that's just weird. The rest has remained unchanged these two years? No more muscle? didn't you get rid of the female fat deposits on the hips and chest? No lowering of the voice?

 

[James23]

No, muscle has stayed the same. My arms measure the same now as they did before I even found out about TRT -- age 19 perhaps. (I'm 24 now.)

This Winter I was 165, at 6'2". During the summer and past two months, I adhered to a high calore diet (~3,000/day) and worked out. I went up to 200lbs -- but, it was just fat in the female areas (chest, waist) and stomach.

I couldn't tell you about the voice. If it has changed, it has been too subtle for me to notice. When I was 16, I was told I sounded like a homosexual (no lisp, and I wasn't girly -- it was just that the pubescent 'ring' had remained in my voice.) It's still not where I'd like it to be, that's for sure.

Don't you find it odd that we'd lose hair even though T is so low? My DHT is "midrange," when I'm not on TRT, but I've been receeeding since I was 17.

Also curious -- do you have a narrow jaw? Wide jaws are (scientifically) associated with naturally high T levels, and mine is pretty dissapointing in the "squareness" regard.

 

[love_en]

Axl, I have one more idea about your DHEA being high and you not virilising. Your adrenal glands are trying to make up for inadequate testosterone levels. How is your cortisol levels, on another thread, it was pointed out to me that the adrenals step up output in the environment of low testosterone. I am not talking about what is considered low on a reference range, I mean what is too low for your body. Some men for example, pmgamer18 need testosterone levels above 1000ng/dl or they do badly. It would be interesting to obtain bloodwork from your, cousins, uncles, brothers and father. I think that would be more relevant to what your levels need to be.

What made me suspect something was very wrong with me, was my now 25 year old kid brother. He is not hypogonadal. Anyone who puts on lean muscle as he does and has sex as much as he does is not hypogonadal. I can say with total certainty that he does not do AAS either. A credible reference range for me would be his total T, free T, etc. I highly doubt that his total T would be under 400 like mine.

 

[Axl]

No, muscle has stayed the same. My arms measure the same now as they did before I even found out about TRT -- age 19 perhaps. (I'm 24 now.)

This Winter I was 165, at 6'2". During the summer and past two months, I adhered to a high calore diet (~3,000/day) and worked out. I went up to 200lbs -- but, it was just fat in the female areas (chest, waist) and stomach.

I couldn't tell you about the voice. If it has changed, it has been too subtle for me to notice. When I was 16, I was told I sounded like a homosexual (no lisp, and I wasn't girly -- it was just that the pubescent 'ring' had remained in my voice.) It's still not where I'd like it to be, that's for sure.

Don't you find it odd that we'd lose hair even though T is so low? My DHT is "midrange," when I'm not on TRT, but I've been receeeding since I was 17.

Also curious -- do you have a narrow jaw? Wide jaws are (scientifically) associated with naturally high T levels, and mine is pretty dissapointing in the "squareness" regard.

My jaw is so narrow I need to go to a dentist that specializes in kids because she is used to working in small mouths. My head is so small I need to buy kids-size baseball caps. My feet are so small I can't buy adultsize shoes... Those are all funny situations, but they are a real pain in the ass in daily life.
I'm 5'5 feet and I weigh 138 lbs (63kg).

 

[Mith]

Hrmm

have you talked to your doctor about doing TRT and accompanying that with either HCG, Clomid, or even Striant?

250mg every 10 days is normal HRT protocol so it would seem to me that you would need more in order to bring you up to snuff since most teenagers are higher than the 266nl you report when they are in puberty.

I hate to say it but you may need to talk to your doc about trying to see what the benefits of doing a "cycle" of 500mg per week would do (that should put you in the supraphysilogical range).

Just one hypogonadal nuts' opinion.

 

[love_en]

have you talked to your doctor about doing TRT and accompanying that with either HCG, Clomid, or even Striant?

250mg every 10 days is normal HRT protocol so it would seem to me that you would need more in order to bring you up to snuff since most teenagers are higher than the 266nl you report when they are in puberty.

I hate to say it but you may need to talk to your doc about trying to see what the benefits of doing a "cycle" of 500mg per week would do (that should put you in the supraphysilogical range).

Just one hypogonadal nuts' opinion.

500mg every week is a full cycle. I think it is way over what a doctor in Europe is allowed to inject in one month. For reference, guys on the AAS forum inject 250mg every week as a first cycle. For me, I am very wary of doing anything that would put me over the top of the reference range. At those levels, the health benefits of T reverse. I also know that Axl has an estrogen management issue as well. Excessive levels of T will make E2 management fun, to put it mildly. I am not saying it has not been done though. Our brothers who cycle over 200mg T need 1mg Armidex several times a week just to deal with E conversion.

 

[Axl]

500mg every week is a full cycle. I think it is way over what a doctor in Europe is allowed to inject in one month. For reference, guys on the AAS forum inject 250mg every week as a first cycle. For me, I am very wary of doing anything that would put me over the top of the reference range. At those levels, the health benefits of T reverse. I also know that Axl has an estrogen management issue as well. Excessive levels of T will make E2 management fun, to put it mildly. I am not saying it has not been done though. Our brothers who cycle over 200mg T need 1mg Armidex several times a week just to deal with E conversion.

I don't know...500 mg seems a lot. (By the way: it's not over what doctors are allowed to do: a doc has the right to give a patient the best possible treatment that is needed for his patient...). I will first see how high my T levels are right now. I got my blood tested a few days ago. I'm still waiting for the results (I have gotten to the point where the doc has given the order to the lab to send me copies of my bloodtests.) I will post them as soon as I have them. I'm curious wether mt T levels have gone up...that would be the first time since I've started trying... I remember my doc saying the last time that he has never seen a patient on this regimen making so little progress like me. He suspects there is someting else in play, nut he can't put hid finger on it. He know thinks I lack androgen receptors in most of my cells...