250mg T not enough?

[Axl]

Before starting TRT 10 months ago, my average total T was 220 ng/dl.

I'm currently on 250 mg T enathate every 10 days. I take 0,25 mg Arimidex every 3 days. I do 250IU HCG the day before and two days before my T shots because I had some severe testicular atrophy. My balls hung very close and tight to my body, my testicles had the size of raizins and they crawled inside my body. I have been hypogonadal all my life. I'm 32 now. I look like a teenager.

After my 10th month of treatment, here are my labs:

total T: 553 ng/dl (280-1100) -> lowish, given my age (32) and the amount of T I inject, don't you think?

T binding Globuline 9 nmol/l (13-71) -> too low. It has always been this way... I think this is one of the causes why my total T has always been this low, correct???

Free T calculated: 179,6 pg/ml (50-280) -> warning: this value is "overestimated" because of an extremely low THBG!

Androstandediol Gluceronide: 293 nd/dl (34-220)

E2: 23 ng/l (10 - 44) -> exellent

LH: < 0,2IU/l (1,1 - 8,8) -> shouldn't HCG get this number higher???

DHEA-S: 355 mcg/dL (120 - 520) -> what does this tell me???

=> Since I don't have normal facial hair, I consider my TRT to be succesfull as soon as my body starts to show signs of virilisation (getting a normal muscular system and normal hair distribution). Up to know, nothing has happened.

My doc doesn't dare to give me more T because "I'm at the maximum that is medically allowed". He was satisfied with the rise of my total T from 220 ng/dl to 553 ng/dl while all other hormones stayed within the range. He would like to keep the treatment at this regimen. However, I do believe that a total T in the normal range of about 650 ng/dl might help me.

Any comments are very welcome!

 

[novice]

Hcg drops LH and FSH. When were these labs drawn? If drawn the day before your shot, they look good. Using injections every 10 days is going to give you a greater high 24-48hrs post injection and consequently greater low on like the day before your injection day, than dosing every 7 days would. I would suggest dosing every 7 days would help you.

 

[Axl]

Hcg drops LH and FSH. When were these labs drawn? If drawn the day before your shot, they look good. Using injections every 10 days is going to give you a greater high 24-48hrs post injection and consequently greater low on like the day before your injection day, than dosing every 7 days would. I would suggest dosing every 7 days would help you.

The labs were drawn the day before my next T shot. The problem is that, in Europe, the docs don't even want to consider weekly shots. One shot every 10 days is as frequent as my doc wants to stretch it, believe it or not...

In my last visit I asked for weekly injections at a dose of about 180 mg. He refused...

Actually, I know my T levels are at their highest one or two days after the shot, but those are not the days that I feel best. I'm at my best 5 days after the shot.

 

[Matt Muscle]

The labs were drawn the day before my next T shot. The problem is that, in Europe, the docs don't even want to consider weekly shots. One shot every 10 days is as frequent as my doc wants to stretch it, believe it or not...

In my last visit I asked for weekly injections at a dose of about 180 mg. He refused...

Actually, I know my T levels are at their highest one or two days after the shot, but those are not the days that I feel best. I'm at my best 5 days after the shot.

Your levels will spike far too high 1 or 2 days after your shot and then settle to the 500 level by day 9. So lots of estro conversion early in the week and a small window of feeling somewhat ok in the middle... quite predictable. So its not a matter of "not eneough T", you just need much less more often.
Is there any way you can ask to do your own injections?
180mgs a week would be far too much... you should start at the basic 100mgs.

 

[pmgamer18]

Before starting TRT 10 months ago, my average total T was 220 ng/dl.

I'm currently on 250 mg T enathate every 10 days. I take 0,25 mg Arimidex every 3 days. I do 250IU HCG the day before and two days before my T shots because I had some severe testicular atrophy. My balls hung very close and tight to my body, my testicles had the size of raizins and they crawled inside my body. I have been hypogonadal all my life. I'm 32 now. I look like a teenager.

After my 10th month of treatment, here are my labs:

total T: 553 ng/dl (280-1100) -> lowish, given my age (32) and the amount of T I inject, don't you think?

T binding Globuline 9 nmol/l (13-71) -> too low. It has always been this way... I think this is one of the causes why my total T has always been this low, correct???

Free T calculated: 179,6 pg/ml (50-280) -> warning: this value is "overestimated" because of an extremely low THBG!

Androstandediol Gluceronide: 293 nd/dl (34-220)

E2: 23 ng/l (10 - 44) -> exellent

LH: < 0,2IU/l (1,1 - 8,8) -> shouldn't HCG get this number higher???

DHEA-S: 355 mcg/dL (120 - 520) -> what does this tell me???

=> Since I don't have normal facial hair, I consider my TRT to be succesfull as soon as my body starts to show signs of virilisation (getting a normal muscular system and normal hair distribution). Up to know, nothing has happened.

My doc doesn't dare to give me more T because "I'm at the maximum that is medically allowed". He was satisfied with the rise of my total T from 220 ng/dl to 553 ng/dl while all other hormones stayed within the range. He would like to keep the treatment at this regimen. However, I do believe that a total T in the normal range of about 650 ng/dl might help me.

Any comments are very welcome!

I have this link if your want to check your Free T.
http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm

 

[Axl]

I have this link if your want to check your Free T.
http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm

That's not what T intended to say, Phil. It is a fact that the calculation of free T is only valid when people have a "normal" SHBG value. With extremely low values of SHBG, the calculated free T will tend to exagerate the result. It is a flaw in the calculation formula that you need to know and to deal with when interpreting calculated free T.

 

[Axl]

Your levels will spike far too high 1 or 2 days after your shot and then settle to the 500 level by day 9. So lots of estro conversion early in the week and a small window of feeling somewhat ok in the middle... quite predictable. So its not a matter of "not eneough T", you just need much less more often.
Is there any way you can ask to do your own injections?
180mgs a week would be far too much... you should start at the basic 100mgs.

Matt, I agree with you 100%. However, T enanthate has a slightly longer half life than T cypionate. So 7 days cyp should be approximately the same as 10 days enanthate, don't you agree??

 

[chap]

Actually I think it is widely accepted that enanthate and cypionate are virtually the same in the body.

 

[ASaxon]

Matt, I agree with you 100%. However, T enanthate has a slightly longer half life than T cypionate. So 7 days cyp should be approximately the same as 10 days enanthate, don't you agree??

According to studies and references from a recent previous thread (https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134240297 enanthate has a slightly lower (7 days) half life than cypionate (8 days). For most analysis they are treated the same.

 

[Axl]

According to studies and references from a recent previous thread (https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134240297 enanthate has a slightly lower (7 days) half life than cypionate (8 days). For most analysis they are treated the same.

OK... my mistake. You are right Saxon. Great link by the way.

So you all agree that I need to do 1 thing: convince my doc to precribe WEEKLY injections at about 100mgs?? Man, that's going to be so tough: it is unheard off here in Europe... Most of the docs still think Sustanon is a wonderdrug over here... Yep, most of the so-called specialists still have their heads up their asses...

Anyhow: does anybody have an indea on how I can raise my SHBG? I still believe it might be the cause for my low testosterone....

 

[chap]

Sustanon should be ok, it still needs to be injected frequently for best results in my opinion.

 

[pmgamer18]

OK... my mistake. You are right Saxon. Great link by the way.

So you all agree that I need to do 1 thing: convince my doc to precribe WEEKLY injections at about 100mgs?? Man, that's going to be so tough: it is unheard off here in Europe... Most of the docs still think Sustanon is a wonderdrug over here... Yep, most of the so-called specialists still have their heads up their asses...

Anyhow: does anybody have an indea on how I can raise my SHBG? I still believe it might be the cause for my low testosterone....

I can't remember if I told you this or not but I was on gels and shots did your ever think to ask for Testogel and stay on your shots. I did this for a long time and as for E2 every thing I tried I needed to take some thing for high E2.
From what I remember if your SHBG is higher it binds T and keeps Free T down.

 

[ASaxon]

As I understand it, your SHBG is low because your body uses it to regulate how much free T you have in your system. Since T binds to SHBG at a fairly consistent rate when you are low on T your body will drive down SHBG so that less of it is available to bind to T. The less T bound to proteins (SHBG being the major one) the more free T that is circulating in your system. The only way I’ve ever heard, and someone can correct me if I’m wrong, to drive up SHBG is to drive up your T levels so your free T gets higher. This should cause your system to create more SHBG in order to drive down your Free T levels back down. Other than that I don’t know of any other way to get SHBG up but I’d love to know if anyone has a method for doing this as my SHBG is low too.

 

[mranak]

Matt, I agree with you 100%. However, T enanthate has a slightly longer half life than T cypionate. So 7 days cyp should be approximately the same as 10 days enanthate, don't you agree??

No.

- Half life of serum testosterone (not serum testosterone ester) is more like 5-6 days for each
- Above half life is not linear
- For all practical purposes, cyp and enan have the same half life. They are that similar.

 

[stat1951]

OK... my mistake. You are right Saxon. Great link by the way.

So you all agree that I need to do 1 thing: convince my doc to precribe WEEKLY injections at about 100mgs?? Man, that's going to be so tough: it is unheard off here in Europe... Most of the docs still think Sustanon is a wonderdrug over here... Yep, most of the so-called specialists still have their heads up their asses...

Anyhow: does anybody have an indea on how I can raise my SHBG? I still believe it might be the cause for my low testosterone....

I agree that this is what needs to be done, though being in Europe, as you say, it's is going to likely be a tough process. Possibly direct your doctor to SWALE's web site (www.allthingsmale.com) and also have pre-printed out SWALE's protocol for TRT for men. Play on his ego and convince him that doing TRT "the right way" could put him at the top of the pyramid in his whole regional area and having andorpause / hypogonadal males flocking to see him.

Also, would not be overly concerned with the low SHBG. I think that it will correct itself as your T levels improve. A lower level (within reason) of SHBG seems to be better actually as it keeps the Free Testosterone levels (the active, "useable" form of T) at higher levels... And I note that many TRT males have the problem with too high of SHBG which can result in having decent levels of Total T and poor levels of Free T.

In any case, good luck with your efforts!

Larry

 

[Matt Muscle]

Matt, I agree with you 100%. However, T enanthate has a slightly longer half life than T cypionate. So 7 days cyp should be approximately the same as 10 days enanthate, don't you agree??

Well I think all the boys here answered this for you before I could.
Im on primoteston which comes as 250mg of enanthate/ML. I was using 125mgs a week and that was too much. I dropped that to 100 and had major improvements. Now im trying biweekly injections, plus 100iu of hcg the day before each shot... I think perhaps 40 mgs every 3 days would be even better, now that I have added the hcg.
However the problem i face now is trying to measure that in only 1 ml of Oil. I really need to dilute it further. Enanthate does not come in a lower dose concentration here in Australia.

 

[Axl]

Everybody: thanks for the replies! I will work on it... See if I can improve in the next months.

 

[SWALE]

Asaxon--We don't want to elevate SHBG.

 

[Axl]

Asaxon--We don't want to elevate SHBG.

I've read that low SHBG and low T are under discussion. The discussion is: "what was the cause and what was the result"?

It is common believe that low T will result in the body adapting to it, thus lowering SHBG to maintain free T at acceptable levels.

Some say the reaction is also possible the other way round: low SHBG will result in the body producing less T, to maintain free T at acceptable levels.

So: this statement "could" mean that increasing SHBG will result in the body increasing total T to maintain free T in acceptable levels.......... This is the discussion that is currently beeing held (if only I rembered where I've read this, I could post a link to this article. I'll keep looking).

In attachment you'll see different modulators that increase or decrease SHBG.
"Could" we play with these modulators to increase SHBG, and, as a result, convince the body to produce more total T?????

Source of the attachment: http://www.get-back-on-track.com/en/professionals/index.php

 

[Axl]

I've read that low SHBG and low T are under discussion. The discussion is: "what was the cause and what was the result"?

It is common believe that low T will result in the body adapting to it, thus lowering SHBG to maintain free T at acceptable levels.

Some say the reaction is also possible the other way round: low SHBG will result in the body producing less T, to maintain free T at acceptable levels.

So: this statement "could" mean that increasing SHBG will result in the body increasing total T to maintain free T in acceptable levels.......... This is the discussion that is currently beeing held (if only I rembered where I've read this, I could post a link to this article. I'll keep looking).

In attachment you'll see different modulators that increase or decrease SHBG.
"Could" we play with these modulators to increase SHBG, and, as a result, convince the body to produce more total T?????

Source of the attachment: http://www.get-back-on-track.com/en/professionals/index.php

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