250mg T not enough?

[Axl]

Last try to bump my SHBG question... isn't there anybody who can shed a light on this?

 

[ASaxon]

"Could" we play with these modulators to increase SHBG, and, as a result, convince the body to produce more total T?????

From what I understand about the HPG Axis (Hypothalamus Pituitary Gonadal Axis) this feedback loop does not directly respond to SHBG at all. My understanding is that the Hypothalamus negatively reacts to Free testosterone levels in the blood and produces GnRH. The Pituitary detects and reacts positively to GnRH and negatively to Free Testosterone in the blood and produces LH and FSH appropriately. The Testicles detect and produce sperm based on LH levels and produces Testosterone based on both LH and FSH levels. Once Testosterone is produced it is bound rapidly to carrier proteins including SHBG and Albumin which in turn determine how much bioavailable and free testosterone is available for bodily functions. One of which is the Hypothalamus and Pituitarys negative response in producing their hormones.

With that said, and assuming I am correct in this understanding, SHBG levels are secondary to the HPG Axis negative feedback loop. Thus, SHBG only helps regulate Testosterone levels in a indirect way, that is by helping to control Free Testosterone levels so that they can stay at optimal levels. Without SHBG to regulate Free (or bioavailable) Testosterone our active androgen levels would be far more variable and erratic. To me SHBG seems to be a post testosterone production regulator of Free or bio-available Testosterone and not the other way around.

 

[Axl]

Great response. Interesting because I've never looked at the HPG-system that way.
Still, even when you say that SHBG influences the HPG-axis in an indirect way, this can still mean that:
- increasing SHBG will, decrease free T, which will invoke the HPG-axis to increase the GnRH,
- which will increase LH and FSH,
- which (in a normal person) will increase total T. The increased amount of total T is necessary to get the free T in a normal range due to the elevated SHBG....

You see: I'm still convinced it might work this way....

 

[soa700]

I can't remember if I told you this or not but I was on gels and shots did your ever think to ask for Testogel and stay on your shots. I did this for a long time and as for E2 every thing I tried I needed to take some thing for high E2.
From what I remember if your SHBG is higher it binds T and keeps Free T down.

Hi pmgamer. I started a thread a few days ago asking for opinions on me stacking enth with transdermals as you have stated you did for a long time.

I just started TRT 8 weeks ago on 5 mg testogel but with little improvement so was switched to 250 mg primotest every 10 days (I am now splitting the shot into 125 mg every 5 days).

Anyway, I thought that seeing I have an unused 5 month subscription for testogel that I would stack it with the primoteston so as to keep my T levels at a more constant higher level as the ester broke down & also to get my T levels a high in the normal range as possible.

After about 3 weeks of doing this I felt great - high energy levels, sex drive through the roof, erections at the mere sight of my wifes cleavage, strength & muscle mass gains from the weights.

After about 6 weeks (current) these affects are fading. People have told me that stacking gel & enth together will cause high DHT & Estrogen.& that what I am doing is a bad combo & I will get other side effects like paic attacks.

Can you give me your feedback on your experience stacking these together as I have read many of your other posts & see that you are obviously extremely well researched & experienced with TRT.

Your help/feeedback will be much appreciated & anticipated.

 

[carbonium]

Before starting TRT 10 months ago, my average total T was 220 ng/dl.

I'm currently on 250 mg T enathate every 10 days. I take 0,25 mg Arimidex every 3 days. I do 250IU HCG the day before and two days before my T shots because I had some severe testicular atrophy. My balls hung very close and tight to my body, my testicles had the size of raizins and they crawled inside my body. I have been hypogonadal all my life. I'm 32 now. I look like a teenager.

After my 10th month of treatment, here are my labs:

total T: 553 ng/dl (280-1100) -> lowish, given my age (32) and the amount of T I inject, don't you think?

T binding Globuline 9 nmol/l (13-71) -> too low. It has always been this way... I think this is one of the causes why my total T has always been this low, correct???

Free T calculated: 179,6 pg/ml (50-280) -> warning: this value is "overestimated" because of an extremely low THBG!

Androstandediol Gluceronide: 293 nd/dl (34-220)

E2: 23 ng/l (10 - 44) -> exellent

LH: < 0,2IU/l (1,1 - 8,8) -> shouldn't HCG get this number higher???

DHEA-S: 355 mcg/dL (120 - 520) -> what does this tell me???

=> Since I don't have normal facial hair, I consider my TRT to be succesfull as soon as my body starts to show signs of virilisation (getting a normal muscular system and normal hair distribution). Up to know, nothing has happened.

My doc doesn't dare to give me more T because "I'm at the maximum that is medically allowed". He was satisfied with the rise of my total T from 220 ng/dl to 553 ng/dl while all other hormones stayed within the range. He would like to keep the treatment at this regimen. However, I do believe that a total T in the normal range of about 650 ng/dl might help me.

Any comments are very welcome!

2 1/2 years ago my doc started me on 200mg every 7 days. As my body dropped fat and my health improved 200 was too much. I dropped to 160mg every 7 days. Then 60mg every 3 days. That's 140mg per week. Now at 248 pounds and about 11.5% BF 100mg per week(total in divided doses) seems to be the best for me based on labs tests and how I feel.

250mg every 10 days is a roller coaster ride. Getting tested 9 days after your shot is really not helping as I bet your peak test is double what your tests show. Same with your E2. You feel best at 5 days after you shot sounds like your peeking too high and your estrogen might be getting too high for a few days. 250mg every 10 days should be dropped to 50mg every 3days. Or 100-120mg every 7 days while keeping the same 0.25 mg Arimidex every 3 days.

I would also think using 250mg every 10 days will eventually over time drive your Hematocrit and hemoglobin too high.

 

[Axl]

2 1/2 years ago my doc started me on 200mg every 7 days. As my body dropped fat and my health improved 200 was too much. I dropped to 160mg every 7 days. Then 60mg every 3 days. That's 140mg per week. Now at 248 pounds and about 11.5% BF 100mg per week(total in divided doses) seems to be the best for me based on labs tests and how I feel.

250mg every 10 days is a roller coaster ride. Getting tested 9 days after your shot is really not helping as I bet your peak test is double what your tests show. Same with your E2. You feel best at 5 days after you shot sounds like your peeking too high and your estrogen might be getting too high for a few days. 250mg every 10 days should be dropped to 50mg every 3days. Or 100-120mg every 7 days while keeping the same 0.25 mg Arimidex every 3 days.

I would also think using 250mg every 10 days will eventually over time drive your Hematocrit and hemoglobin too high.

Carbonium, what's your opinion on 10% compounded testosteron cream? It would defenitely give a more stable T-level, don't you think?

 

[James23]

Axl,

I don't quite understand this thread. It looks like it starts out with a discussion related to low SHBG, and then turns into a discussion about very high does of injectible T.

Are these two subjects supposed to be related to one another?

I have low SHBG, and I've tried up to 300mg of testosterone weekly. I've also tried up to 25g of Androgel (for a very short period.)