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Anabolic Steroids

PCT - Lets get it ironed out (Dr Scally?)

IRQ_001

IRQ_001

New Member
As many of you know, PCT is an integral part to any cycle. Unfortunately, there seems to be many misunderstanding about the subject. The purpose behind this thread is to share knowledge in an effort to sort out these misconceptions about PCT. I’m hoping to have Dr. Scally lead the discussion.

Dr. Scally, you had mentioned that you would be on a radio show for a second time in May to discuss PCT for a cycle of Test E at 750mg/wk. I thought why not challenge you with some PCT questions before hand in case you miss something during the show and so that I can go to sleep better :)

The questions – assuming a dose of Test E @ 750mg/wk:

1) Many AAS users advice that PCT starts two weeks after last injection of test. According to my research, PCT start date is dependent on the dose of test taken and of course half-life. In the case of Test E @ 750mg/wk and as per the online PCT calculator (PCT Calculator | Post Cycle Therapy Calculator), PCT should start about 35+ days after last injection, while a dose of 250mg/wk would require about 15 days. Do you agree that PCT is dose dependent given the relative levels of diminishing exogenous Test?

2) It seems like the calculator above suggests a PCT start date when exogenous Test levels fall below 120mg. Do you agree with this? If not, how low will the Test levels have to drop before starting PCT? Your answer will also dictate a new understanding of PCT start date regardless of the calculator above.

3) What is best for PCT? Nolva, Clomid or a combo of both?

4 )What dose do you recommend Nolva and/or Clomid be taken and for how long for PCT?

5) The body needs estrogen to function at an optimal state. Would you still advice for using Arimidex during an aromatizing cycle, such as 750mg/wk of Test E (especially combined with another compound, like Dbol) which would prevent test from converting into estrogen? If Armidex is advices to be taken, what dose would you recommend and at what frequency? Would Nolva be a better choice given the difference in function?

6) How would use hCH effectively – When do you take it, at what dose and for how long when combined with Nolva and /or Clomid?

7) Do you believe that hCG is always required for PCT?

8) Deca’s metabolites are detected for up to 18 months in your body. Do you believe that Deca’s Metabolites are the reason behind Deca’s slow recovering users?

These are the questions I have in mind…. Looking forward to the response and thank you in advance!

IRQ
 
ApeShitFuckJacked said:
Fuck yeah good thread Irq

There is a thread where dr scally has answered some of these questions but certainly not all of them.

Bump
Click to expand...

...thanks for the encouragement but where the heck is your contribution??!! lol

Come on Ape... take a shot at some of those. I consider your advice valuable given some of your posts...
 
BIGMESC said:
You kinda have to piece it all together, it would be great to have him go through your list and lay it all out there.
Click to expand...

I agree. It would be nice to have him answer all the questions in one thread so that we can refer to vs piecing it all out. Once I'm done with my reading, i'll try to answer some of my questions and hope that Dr. Scally confirms my findings.
 
Ok here is what I think is a good answer to my Q5 based on the readings from the first two links provided by BIGMESC. Before I go into the answer, just a quick reminder of the functions of AIs Vs. SERMs.

AIs - used to reduce conversion of testosterone, Dianabol, and Equipoise (not an exclusive list of aromatizable AAS, but the main ones) to estrogen.

SERMs - usually very effective in restoring natural testosterone production. It acts by blocking estrogen receptors at the hypothalamus and pituitary. If androgen levels are not elevated, this is enough to cause production of at least normal amounts of LH, or often more LH than normal.

Given the above, I would say use AIs while ON CYCLE to manage E2 and therefore side effects arising from aromatization (i.e. bloating). HOWEVER, if you are prone to gyno, SERMs should be kept on hand while ON CYCLE to combat gyno (I like Scally’s Castle analogy). Please note that I said use AIs while on cycle to MANAGE E2 - this where things get a little complicated. I strongly believe that TOO MUCH AI dosage will be harmful, as it will prevent any conversion of estrogen, which is needed by the body. So what dose is healthy for AIs while on cycle and how will it differ from one dose of Test to another? I have no idea, however, people seem to take 0.25mg or 0.50mg EOD when using test plus other aromatizing compounds like Dbol. The aforementioned doses seem to come from thin air but it also seems to work for people I have come across on forums.

I'm such a fkn nerd! [:o)]

Folks, I'm not saying my findings are spot on, it's only based on my readings and I would be interested to see what you guys think. However, I must say that the use of AAS is no game. If you are willing to look for answers and educate yourself then it's a plus for you but if you use AAS without the education I say ... you are one irresponsible MOFO.
 
ok here is a parial answer to my Q 1 and 2.

As per the third link provided by BIGMESC, the doctor advised that on a 12 weeks TE 500 MG/QW will take about a month (or slightly more) to clear before the HPTA will be in an environment for LH/FSH stimulation (SERM/AI). The link to the calculator I provided above stipulates a waiting period of about three weeks. There seems to be a discrepancy. I’m guessing that Dr. Scally believes that exogenous Test levels should be below 50mg before the start of PCT.

Doc, I need you on this one and I would appreciate you backing this answer with a study if possible PLEASE.
 
Way to dig into IRQ
I am almost afraid to tell you but the Dr. has a book out and I think he is working on one now.
Check this link

Book - PCT/AIH - Page 4

And yes I think he starts Pct when Test is almost down to nil
 
Last edited:
Look in the Doc's signature
Email for free copy (pdf), "Anabolic Steroids - A Question of Muscle: Human Subject Abuses in Anabolic Steroid Research."
Get the book then look on about page 117 chapter is Solutions
He lays out dosages and timelines with charts even on a Hcg,Clomid and Nolva PCT

I think it on his blog page also
 
Last edited:
BIGMESC said:
Look in the Doc's signature
Email for free copy (pdf), "Anabolic Steroids - A Question of Muscle: Human Subject Abuses in Anabolic Steroid Research."
Get the book then look on about page 117 chapter is Solutions
He lays out dosages and timelines with charts even on a Hcg,Clomid and Nolva PCT

I think it on his blog page also
Click to expand...

Big thanks Bro!
 
IRQ - please be carefull starting conversations like this one. I fear that you are going to expose us juicers. Society considers us 'wreckless meathead drug users' who have no respect for our own health. They look at us as idiots who think about nothing beyond how much we can bench press. Your attempts to gain and share knowledge about how to better and more safely use these substances may reveal us to be the cerebral, intelligent, forward thinkers that we are.

We don't want that, now. ;)
 
Last edited:
the sem stuopid ;bitches siadn teh y dont awan t uyoto talk to me dame dbecuaste they dsaids nid wa sbuckd saing durnk sid ebutf fucmking boiwhoings in wahdlf shellf. FHEHUIL KDIC HELL
 
About the only question I don't believe he has addressed is the "optimal TT level" before PCT is begun.

Understandingly NO ONE likes the answer (< 200ng/DL, IMO) and some aimlessly choose to remain ignorant of it's importance by suggesting exogenous AAS are GTG up to, and including the PCT interval (for some).

Things like "low dose TT", "a weak oral like Var", "just bridging doses of AAS", etc come to mind.

Of course their rationale is "to diminish the reduction of gains achieved during a cycle"

Jim
 
1-2) Pct wait Time is dose and compound dependent. Different compounds are more or less suppressive to the HPTA at equal doses therefore more half lives must pass in suppressive compounds before an environment for HPTA restoration can be achieved. In the case of testosterone Exogenous T levels should be equal to or less than 500ng/dl this is the equivalent of about 50-75mg of test.

3/6/7) After an optimal HPTA environment is reached HCG should be taken for two weeks 2000iu EOD Dr scally mentions that without a long AAS history 1000iu may be sufficient but I can find no reason not to lean on the side of caution and adopt the more aggressive protocol.

4) Clomid 100mg and Nolva 40mg taken for 4 weeks (first two are during administration of HCG)

5) Arimidex is a poor choice as an AI for BB IMO

Arimidex lowers the anabolic hormone igf-1 by up to 26%

While letrozole and Aromasin
Raise igf-1 levels by 26% and 28% respectively.

Everyone is different regarding their AI dosage. But I would recommend starting doses of 12.5mg ed aromasin and 1mg ed letrozole for 500mg of aromatizable AAS

You should confirm your dosage via blood test not by sensitive/insensitive nipples.

8) When using Deca HPTA suppression generally continues for around 35-40 days after 1 100mg shot of deca.

The half life of the parent hormone is 7-12 days. Pct should be started 40 days after enough half lives have past to reach 100 mg.

In some cases users experience HPTA suppression for longer periods.
 
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