19-NOR metabolites suppressive for over a year PCT is pointless?

[Gbaby12]

So I'm arguing with someone on reddit, and reddit is full of idiots so I wanted to bring this question over here to Meso where people actually know things...

Apparently you have to blast and cruise if you use a 19-nor because the metabolites will remain in your system and suppress you for 18-months.

This is the study that was shared... Long term perturbation of endocrine parameters and cholesterol metabolism after discontinued abuse of anabolic androgenic steroids - PubMed

I've been on YouTube and tried some Google Foo and struggled to find other studies or info on it.

Is this really a fact? Personally I've ran NPP and Tren and bloodwork looked alright after a pct. The cycle I'm coming off now I ran mtren for 2 weeks and had a couple days I used tren-NE as a preworkout. So I'm not going to be able to recover now because I have 19-Nor metabolites in my system? LOL

I think this may be an exaggeration, but there is this study on the matter that seemed to find it to be a very real issue. Interested in hearing some other thoughts on it.

 

[klokke23]

This part of their broscience runs DEEP. Their previous mod decatest I think is extremely stupid. He was constantly looking for any kind of study about basically anything and treat it as definite proof of something; "hey guys, look what I found. Actually MENT is neuroprotective and cures cancer". The hivemind's broscience is very strong as has leaked into /r/PEDs and /r/bodybuilding. I believe it's impossible to turn around.

I've seen people try and speak up against the subs hate on 19-nors (nand and tren). But what's the point. Tomorrow there's a new ask anything thread and whatever you posted was seen by 5 people and is now gone forever. You aren't even allowed to make threads there. There is no way for members to gather and discuss and share knowledge. Just day to day with the same questions from noobs, and the hivemind answers. In our homebreweing section we have a thread on how to make transdermal test. The community has been wroking together for weeks. Testing and sharing experiences to figure shit out. This could never happen on reddit. How that sub is just so FLAWED. And their current mod team is extremely ban happy. Make a thread on this and watch yourself get muted for 12 days real quick. If they actually allowed threads, then the hivemind knowledge would progress and get better.

Here is the answer to your question. They are WRONG. The study decatest added to the wiki to backup his claim is flawed. And he never even read it. He always just quoted the abstract and never payed for access.

19 Nor

Is It true that the hormone 19 nor in deca n tren, will keep hpta suppressed for up to 5 months and there's no point on doin pct till then?

thinksteroids.com

Do Nandrolone metabolites have a large impact on natural recovery?

While its commonly known that deca is a very long estered compound and takes forever to clear out of your system. I've read and heard about how the metabolites of the nandrolone can be detectable in your system for up to 18 months after your last dosage. While I know the politically correct...

thinksteroids.com

tl;dr (I highly suggest you read the posts though)
Nandrolone's metabolites are not suppressive in practice.
Test is way more suppressive.
Deca will be suppressive due to the nature of the long ester.
NO data on tren. But the sub will claim there is ("all 19-nor bad, except MENT hurr durr).

 

[Alphalfa]

So decatest is kicked off the mod team due to power tripping banning people who speak against his research on hgh EOD being better than ED, 19-nors being highly suppressive, 19-nors being cardio and neurotoxic and MENT being a miracle drug. The subreddit is working on changing the views on MENT. He was also caught working with a MENT vendor.

Quoting you from the thread you pasted in your last message here, where can I read about what happened with decatest on reddit? I was several months without checking r/steroids, because I was a bit busy and did not find it enjoyable since the daily ask anything was literally what you said, same stupid questions and same repetitive replies, and found strange not to see Decatest posting or throwing in some studies regarding 19-nors, lol.

I am a bit shocked but not surprised about the MENT vendor relation after all the extreme spam he was doing with the MENT.
At least the salbutamol/albuterol stuff he was spreading was good, and way better than clenbuterol regarding side effects and half life.

 

[Type-IIx]

Quoting you from the thread you pasted in your last message here, where can I read about what happened with decatest on reddit? I was several months without checking r/steroids, because I was a bit busy and did not find it enjoyable since the daily ask anything was literally what you said, same stupid questions and same repetitive replies, and found strange not to see Decatest posting or throwing in some studies regarding 19-nors, lol.

I am a bit shocked but not surprised about the MENT vendor relation after all the extreme spam he was doing with the MENT.
At least the salbutamol/albuterol stuff he was spreading was good, and way better than clenbuterol regarding side effects and half life.

Damn brother, you thought that fear-mongering over clen was good? That was ridiculous and the inspiration for me actually researching it (before using it). Let me just say, that individual was a serious ax-grinder, that likes to use fear as a motivator to get people to... agree with him, basically. Very insane.

 

[Alphalfa]

Damn brother, you thought that fear-mongering over clen was good? That was ridiculous and the inspiration for me actually researching it (before using it). Let me just say, that individual was a serious ax-grinder, that likes to use fear as a motivator to get people to... agree with him, basically. Very insane.

Well, I just stick with what I believe to be better based on science and experiences. Regarding the clen/salbutamol stuff, I find way more enjoyable to control a way shorter half-life B2-agonist like salbutamol rathen than clenbuterol.
I can confirm the lipids stuff of salbutamol, it seriously increased my HDL and decreased my LDL.

But yes, probably he was just very hard/non tolerant regarding non-concordant opinions, and that is not something you want in a forum/subforum of that size.

By the way @Type-IIx , I wanted to try Mirabegron( commercial name Betmiga 50mg), the only B3-agonist med available, and got some, I hate his half life (it is a extended release version, the only one available) but going to give it a try at low doses.
Do you have any experience? I have not seen you talking about it on your B-2 agonists (clen mainly) thread, but I do remember you talking about the agonist effects of rHGH on both B1 and B3 adrenergic receptors.

 

[Gbaby12]

This part of their broscience runs DEEP. Their previous mod decatest I think is extremely stupid. He was constantly looking for any kind of study about basically anything and treat it as definite proof of something; "hey guys, look what I found. Actually MENT is neuroprotective and cures cancer". The hivemind's broscience is very strong as has leaked into /r/PEDs and /r/bodybuilding. I believe it's impossible to turn around.

I've seen people try and speak up against the subs hate on 19-nors (nand and tren). But what's the point. Tomorrow there's a new ask anything thread and whatever you posted was seen by 5 people and is now gone forever. You aren't even allowed to make threads there. There is no way for members to gather and discuss and share knowledge. Just day to day with the same questions from noobs, and the hivemind answers. In our homebreweing section we have a thread on how to make transdermal test. The community has been wroking together for weeks. Testing and sharing experiences to figure shit out. This could never happen on reddit. How that sub is just so FLAWED. And their current mod team is extremely ban happy. Make a thread on this and watch yourself get muted for 12 days real quick. If they actually allowed threads, then the hivemind knowledge would progress and get better.

Here is the answer to your question. They are WRONG. The study decatest added to the wiki to backup his claim is flawed. And he never even read it. He always just quoted the abstract and never payed for access.

19 Nor

Is It true that the hormone 19 nor in deca n tren, will keep hpta suppressed for up to 5 months and there's no point on doin pct till then?

thinksteroids.com

Do Nandrolone metabolites have a large impact on natural recovery?

While its commonly known that deca is a very long estered compound and takes forever to clear out of your system. I've read and heard about how the metabolites of the nandrolone can be detectable in your system for up to 18 months after your last dosage. While I know the politically correct...

thinksteroids.com

tl;dr (I highly suggest you read the posts though)
Nandrolone's metabolites are not suppressive in practice.
Test is way more suppressive.
Deca will be suppressive due to the nature of the long ester.
NO data on tren. But the sub will claim there is ("all 19-nor bad, except MENT hurr durr).

Kudos man, both those threads were awesome and answered my question... That's what I figured, even if the metabolites did stay in your system for that long they're not going to be actively suppressing the HTPA as the concentrations will be too small to activate the receptors.

And that study that was shared, I literally went through it and tried to find any specifications on the actual tests that were done, looked through the sources to find the experiments. Like what controls where used, age of the participants, length and dosages, were others substances involved, any predisposition. I'm no researcher, but from what I saw, I could not find any of that information. The study is moreso a statement being made that they're purporting as a blanket statement to all 19-nors.

You pretty much some up the entirety of r/steroids, glad to see other people here see all the bullshit over there. had no idea decatest was in with a MENT vendor, that explains ALOT, they literally preach that stuff like it's a godsend and you should trt with it LMAO. Seriously a fucking echo chamber over there.

 

[Type-IIx]

Kudos man, both those threads were awesome and answered my question... That's what I figured, even if the metabolites did stay in your system for that long they're not going to be actively suppressing the HTPA as the concentrations will be too small to activate the receptors.

And that study that was shared, I literally went through it and tried to find any specifications on the actual tests that were done, looked through the sources to find the experiments. Like what controls where used, age of the participants, length and dosages, were others substances involved, any predisposition. I'm no researcher, but from what I saw, I could not find any of that information. The study is moreso a statement being made that they're purporting as a blanket statement to all 19-nors.

You pretty much some up the entirety of r/steroids, glad to see other people here see all the bullshit over there. had no idea decatest was in with a MENT vendor, that explains ALOT, they literally preach that stuff like it's a godsend and you should trt with it LMAO. Seriously a fucking echo chamber over there.

Your impression is correct, there is nothing to support the claim that 19-nortestosterone derivatives are particularly suppressive, in that paper, or the literature generally. Certainly, MENT is particularly suppressive due to its multifold effects on HPG axis suppression (e.g., potent aromatic product negatively feeding back at hypothalamus, slowing of GnRH pulsatility, progestagenic hypothalamic dysregulation via KNDy dendron signalling/pulsatility, increased prolactin expression) - hence why it has some potential efficacy at least worth investigating for male contraception - MENT ticks all the boxes for acute and chronic suppression. Whereas nandrolone is less suppressive than testosterone. Their entire "19-nor" monolothic framework isn't even correct, it's broscience (e.g., tren a triene is considered a 19-nor by their model).

 

[Type-IIx]

Well, I just stick with what I believe to be better based on science and experiences. Regarding the clen/salbutamol stuff, I find way more enjoyable to control a way shorter half-life B2-agonist like salbutamol rathen than clenbuterol.
I can confirm the lipids stuff of salbutamol, it seriously increased my HDL and decreased my LDL.

But yes, probably he was just very hard/non tolerant regarding non-concordant opinions, and that is not something you want in a forum/subforum of that size.

By the way @Type-IIx , I wanted to try Mirabegron( commercial name Betmiga 50mg), the only B3-agonist med available, and got some, I hate his half life (it is a extended release version, the only one available) but going to give it a try at low doses.
Do you have any experience? I have not seen you talking about it on your B-2 agonists (clen mainly) thread, but I do remember you talking about the agonist effects of rHGH on both B1 and B3 adrenergic receptors.

I'm not familiar with it, I only have a cursory understanding of beta3- receptors & functions at present, honestly.

 

[klokke23]

Quoting you from the thread you pasted in your last message here, where can I read about what happened with decatest on reddit? I was several months without checking r/steroids, because I was a bit busy and did not find it enjoyable since the daily ask anything was literally what you said, same stupid questions and same repetitive replies, and found strange not to see Decatest posting or throwing in some studies regarding 19-nors, lol.

I am a bit shocked but not surprised about the MENT vendor relation after all the extreme spam he was doing with the MENT.
At least the salbutamol/albuterol stuff he was spreading was good, and way better than clenbuterol regarding side effects and half life.

The drama unfolded in different comment chains around the sub. The good ones has very recently been removed.

Decatest was getting increasingly ban happy, and a second steroids sub was created by people who were sick of getting 12 day mutes for basically nothing. The 2nd mod PenguinSmuggler was brought in as a mod on there too, and everyone was happy about it as if decatest was the only problem. But now Penguin runs two subs and is banning for fucking nothing on both subs.
Penguin and decatest apparently are not good friends anymore. Swolemedic has the highest admin rights but isn't moderating. He has told Penguin repeatedly to stop fueling the drama about decatest.
Decatest has made a few attempts at defending MENT still, but his comments gets removed by Penguin.
It's too bad the drama comment chains I had saved are removed now. They must have done that very recently. He made a very poor attempts at defending himself and his followers seems to be just as dumb as him. And yes, he was peddling MENT in PMs on the board.

From the upvotes, it is clear he still has a strong following. He always will.
steroids/comments/sh0oui/daily_ask_anything_20220131/huztezl
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/sh0oui/daily_ask_anything_20220131/huztezl/


There's some stuff here. But not as juicy. This was just a few days after he was removed from the mod team. All the juicy drama ensued later.
steroids/comments/s7pmb4/daily_ask_anything_20220119/htcyw7i
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/s7pmb4/daily_ask_anything_20220119/htcyw7i/

There's parts of the deleted comment chain still available to read on his own profile page.

 

[klokke23]

Some comments from Penguin

https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/sp62cn/daily_ask_anything_20220210/hwgfsi7/

Recovered comments from the comment chain that appeared shortly after his mod removal.

reveddit

Reveddit reveals content secretly removed from your reddit account.

www.reveddit.com

This one went on for a while. I see now why swolemedic removed it.

reveddit

Reveddit reveals content secretly removed from your reddit account.

www.reveddit.com

 

[Alphalfa]

Some comments from Penguin

https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/sp62cn/daily_ask_anything_20220210/hwgfsi7/

Recovered comments from the comment chain that appeared shortly after his mod removal.

reveddit

Reveddit reveals content secretly removed from your reddit account.

www.reveddit.com

This one went on for a while. I see now why swolemedic removed it.

reveddit

Reveddit reveals content secretly removed from your reddit account.

www.reveddit.com

Appreciate it.

Well, I found some of his info useful like the sabutamol stuff, and some other topics like reasonings behind first cycle amount and lenght.

But the MENT stuff was excessive and was spammed on every single subthread talking about any 19-nor which was annoying.

It was just the way he behaved, extremely authoritarian and not allowing debate on his theories, like pure official statements that should not be questioned at all.

 

[klokke23]

Appreciate it.

Well, I found some of his info useful like the sabutamol stuff, and some other topics like reasonings behind first cycle amount and lenght.

But the MENT stuff was excessive and was spammed on every single subthread talking about any 19-nor which was annoying.

It was just the way he behaved, extremely authoritarian and not allowing debate on his theories, like pure official statements that should not be questioned at all.

I disagree with their absolute stand on 500 mg first cycle though. But that's just me. Their sub is for the most part just a tutorial on how to plan your shopping list, how to pin and what to expect. If you want to learn more, they refer you to the compound experience threads lol.

 

[Tmisatix]

Well, I just stick with what I believe to be better based on science and experiences. Regarding the clen/salbutamol stuff, I find way more enjoyable to control a way shorter half-life B2-agonist like salbutamol rathen than clenbuterol.
I can confirm the lipids stuff of salbutamol, it seriously increased my HDL and decreased my LDL.

But yes, probably he was just very hard/non tolerant regarding non-concordant opinions, and that is not something you want in a forum/subforum of that size.

By the way @Type-IIx , I wanted to try Mirabegron( commercial name Betmiga 50mg), the only B3-agonist med available, and got some, I hate his half life (it is a extended release version, the only one available) but going to give it a try at low doses.
Do you have any experience? I have not seen you talking about it on your B-2 agonists (clen mainly) thread, but I do remember you talking about the agonist effects of rHGH on both B1 and B3 adrenergic receptors.

Hmm, did so happen to increase your cardio and clean up your diet while using salbutamol, though? Could have been multifactorial

 

[Alphalfa]

Hmm, did so happen to increase your cardio and clean up your diet while using salbutamol, though? Could have been multifactorial

Indeed you might be right, but I have never had and HDL of 91(usually around 55-65) in my life, LDL was slighty better around 80(normally 85-105), triglicerides always around 40-45, but I have had the same cardio and diet other times.

But you are right, was not just the salbutamol but I plan to add some salbutamol(safer doses obviously) when bulking and running some orals to check if it helps to temporally improve the lipids.

 

[OmL]

Well shit. I thought the only ones there that weren’t idiots were Decatest and BuritoBandito.

 

[klokke23]

Well shit. I thought the only ones there that weren’t idiots were Decatest and BuritoBandito.

Seriously? Goes to show how talking the loudest can make one seem intelligent. BicepBandito is seriously the dumbest regular on there. Almost everything he says is downright stupid and wrong. He's incredibly rude to everyone as well. Just looking through his profile page right now makes me cringe at the upvotes of his shitty info. He's a big problem on the board imo.