665 reasons to not order from UncleZ

[Kamala]

What are you talking about?

Why am I a POS for putting up a post at Steroidology about the sponsor I worked for? That was probably about a year ago, before he closed shop.

Because you are a hired gun for the highest bidder.

Lets be honest here dude, you get a ton of free gear for your "work". You are not always upfront about the fact that you are being compensated, and you see nothing wrong with being a rep and a mod on the same board. Its a clear conflict of interest, as a mod you need to have the members best interest in mind, but as a rep you need to have your brands best interest in mind.

 

[Millard]

I do know of some reps that I think have a bit more credibility than others.

The biggest thing IMHO is that a rep needs to be clear that THEY ARE A REP! Mr Arnold was over on another forum, in a moderator position ( which is a whole other can of worms ) praising Z...... But not telling people that he was working for Z.
This is wrong, there is no grey area here...... If you represent something, and are compensated for it, then be strait about it...... This is what is wrong.
It is a very clear conflict of interest, plain & simple.

I have nothing against company reps posting on meso. But I agree entirely with and have repeatedly encourage disclosure among all reps who post here.

I'm shocked at how many company reps simply refuse to do so. These are the worst - it is purposeful and intentional deceit.

As far as Mike Arnold is concerned, I think it has been fully disclosed all over the internet that he worked with UncleZ for some time. I've known this for well over a year. I've read some of the same posts you are referring to with this in mind. I think most people familiar with his posts know his history.

I actually assumed that he still worked with Z when he recently started posting on MESO. He has stated that he does not. So, he has even disclosed his association here on MESO whether you choose to believe him or not.

Which goes to an earlier question I posed: how and under what circumstances does a former company rep restore their credibility and escape the cloud of suspicion once they abandon the position

 

[biggerben69]

Can anybody else but me read the signature at the bottom of each post I make. My signature lists theironden.com and anabolicboard.com I'm a VIP on both. I'm here. I'm at IMF.
If you're so deep in the game and so concerned about your rep and know the business so well why is the only thing you know about Z's history is what's gone on since you've worked for him or for a total of 2yrs....1yr of which he's been gone?
You're so concerned about integrity etc, yet you wouldn't check Z's track record or posts about his the past? You just took his word for things when he said he's good to go?
You're obviously internet savvy...radio shows, moderator, but you jumped on board without knowing ANYTHING except what you learned when you first met him 2yrs ago.
Would you do that on the street if you are so respected and would never work or be involved with a company that had a controversial past?
Great...you finally addressed the past....YOU PLEAD IGNORANCE. LAME.

 

[Millard]

Because you are a hired gun for the highest bidder.

Lets be honest here dude, you get a ton of free gear for your "work". You are not always upfront about the fact that you are being compensated, and you see nothing wrong with being a rep and a mod on the same board. Its a clear conflict of interest, as a mod you need to have the members best interest in mind, but as a rep you need to have your brands best interest in mind.

I think it's a conflict of interest but it doesn't mean they will necessarily be dishonest.

As a forum owner, I personally wouldn't want a sponsor or company rep to be a moderator even if they were fair. Why? Because it gives the appearance of bias and doesn't facilitate immediate trust with the community.

But other owners have made different decisions and such moderators have worked to successfully gain the trust and respect of their respective communities and the forums have thrived.

I still like MY way better

Some of you guys have no qualms about attacking me for my conflict of interests based on the advertising-revenue model of this website - often as a convenient way of trying to discredit me when I say something that people disagree with.

It doesn't mean I am not being honest and not able to maintain my editorial independence. Yes, there is the potential for bias due to the revenue model of the site. Ultimately I think one should be judged by their actions and behaviors.

If I haven't convince you guys yet by giving you total freedom to attack every potential source of advertising revenue, they I don't think I could ever convince you

 

[Kamala]

I have nothing against company reps posting on meso. But I agree entirely with and have repeatedly encourage disclosure among all reps who post here.

I'm shocked at how many company reps simply refuse to do so. These are the worst - it is purposeful and intentional deceit.

As far as Mike Arnold is concerned, I think it has been fully disclosed all over the internet that he worked with UncleZ for some time. I've known this for well over a year. I've read some of the same posts you are referring to with this in mind. I think most people familiar with his posts know his history.

I actually assumed that he still worked with Z when he recently started posting on MESO. He has stated that he does not. So, he has even disclosed his association here on MESO whether you choose to believe him or not.

Which goes to an earlier question I posed: how and under what circumstances does a former company rep restore their credibility and escape the cloud of suspicion once they abandon the position

I don't know if working for a lab necessarily makes someone lose all credibility...... I think how that person acts while in that capacity has everything to do with it.

It all comes down to honesty. If a rep chooses to deceive people, then they are choosing to lose all credibility everywhere that isn't censored.

 

[Kamala]

I think it's a conflict of interest but it doesn't mean they will necessarily be dishonest.

As a forum owner, I personally wouldn't want a sponsor or company rep to be a moderator even if they were fair. Why? Because it gives the appearance of bias and doesn't facilitate immediate trust with the community.

But other owners have made different decisions and such moderators have worked to successfully gain the trust and respect of their respective communities and the forums have thrived.

I still like MY way better

Some of you guys have no qualms about attacking me for my conflict of interests based on the advertising-revenue model of this website - often as a convenient way of trying to discredit me when I say something that people disagree with.

It doesn't mean I am not being honest and not able to maintain my editorial independence. Yes, there is the potential for bias due to the revenue model of the site. Ultimately I think one should be judged by their actions and behaviors.

If I haven't convince you guys yet by giving you total freedom to attack every potential source of advertising revenue, they I don't think I could ever convince you

To be honest I don't see any labs openly advertising here with a banner, and I'm not aware of anything that you make advertising revenue from being pushed on any threads.
Based on past experiences with certain boards, whats being said on here usually isn't allowed.

 

[Millard]

To be honest I don't see any labs openly advertising here with a banner, and I'm not aware of anything that you make advertising revenue from being pushed on any threads.
Based on past experiences with certain boards, whats being said on here usually isn't allowed.

I've been attacked as having a current conflict of interest based on banner ads that last appeared on this site FOUR YEARS AGO.

When it wasn't a violation of the CSA to accept banner advertising from steroid pharmacies, I had several such banners on this site. Some critics think that constitutes a conflict of interest.

Some members will say I have a conflict of interest because some of the banners that appear on this site have links to other sites that may sell AAS.

So, yes some people will grasp at whatever they can

 

[Millard]

Based on past experiences with certain boards, whats being said on here usually isn't allowed.

I'm committed to this i.e. open/free discussion. I think this is the best approach.

It may deter some advertisers in the short-term. But that is fine. Ultimately, what's in the best interests of members is in the best interests of bigger, better and more successful forum in the long-term. So, there's no selflessness on my part.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

I've been attacked as having a current conflict of interest based on banner ads that last appeared on this site FOUR YEARS AGO.

When it wasn't a violation of the CSA to accept banner advertising from steroid pharmacies, I had several such banners on this site. Some critics think that constitutes a conflict of interest.

Some members will say I have a conflict of interest because some of the banners that appear on this site have links to other sites that may sell AAS.

So, yes some people will grasp at whatever they can.

Whether people like it or not, advertising is a necessity if you want to keep the lights on. That doesn't mean your "not able to maintain editorial independence" any less than say, the American Journal of Psychiatry because they except ads from Pfizer or Lily. If people are attacking you for paying your bills, they've got bigger issues than ads.

If I haven't convince you guys yet by giving you total freedom to attack every potential source of advertising revenue, they I don't think I could ever convince you.

You're always going to have complainers but if the above doesn't convince them, then being able to attack you on your own board and not get banned, (like they would on EVERY other board) certainly should. Alas, you can make some people happy some of the time, but you can't make all the people happy all of the time.

 

[biggerben69]

Oh, Mike Arnold, I was a member at OLM and PM since 2006. I was banned at OLM for calling out OUS and the benzo/opiate pusher reps there.....I was banned at PM for calling out pacman/horizon for ripping so many off.
Myself and a few other members told everyone months is advance that pacman had been a scam source using different names in the past. We told them that they were going to get ripped off after pac had sent the kiloclub guys and mods gh to be tested and the ones he sent them were off course good. When these "trusted" members gave the gtg sign the cash started coming in.
After it was discovered the kits sent to regular members were bunk, pacman started his own "re send campaign" He sent a supposed samples of new killer gh from a new batch to trusted members again(those tested good,surprise) but once again, the ones sent to members were bunk.
During his resend campaign he ALSO OPENED SHOP BEFORE MEMBERS WAITING MONTHS WERE MADE WHOLE.
Sound familiar? Asshole.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

..I was banned at PM for calling out pacman/horizon for ripping so many off.
Myself and a few other members told everyone months is advance that pacman had been a scam source using different names in the past. We told them that they were going to get ripped off after pac had sent the kiloclub guys and mods gh to be tested and the ones he sent them were off course good. When these "trusted" members gave the gtg sign the cash started coming in.

I watched that fiasco on pacman/horizon unfold. That incident showed what a scammer board PM is. When pac turned scammer, PM let him reopen under the horizen name and the scam continued. Of course they denied knowing it was the same person. When the shit hit the fan they let a couple of reps/vets take the fall and PM came out smelling like a rose - at least to the baglickers over there. They even went so far as to post pacs phone number - just to show how they look out for the members. Some of those boys lost more than $10 grand.

 

[Kamala]

I watched that fiasco on pacman/horizon unfold. That incident showed what a scammer board PM is. When pac turned scammer, PM let him reopen under the horizen name and the scam continued. Of course they denied knowing it was the same person. When the shit hit the fan they let a couple of reps/vets take the fall and PM came out smelling like a rose - at least to the baglickers over there. They even went so far as to post pacs phone number - just to show how they look out for the members. Some of those boys lost more than $10 grand.

I wasn't around for that one, I don't frequent PM very often..... I have single digit posts over about 5 years.
The scale of some of these scams is mindblowing...... And the sad thing is 2 years down the road, or even sooner, the same scammer will be back under a different name doing it all again.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

I wasn't around for that one, I don't frequent PM very often..... I have single digit posts over about 5 years.
The scale of some of these scams is mindblowing...... And the sad thing is 2 years down the road, or even sooner, the same scammer will be back under a different name doing it all again.

Some of those guys got scammed by pacman, gave their very next order to horizon and got scammed again. A few were in the thousands both times. Some guys knew the board had to have known pac/horizon was the same person and when they complained got banned and had their posts deleted. Maybe that's how BB got banned. Alot of them didn't question the board at all, though.

You're right about the scammers being back under a different name. They will probably scam some of the same people, too.

I don't go there much either. There is some good info and members there but it disgusts me to watch so many members suck-up to the vets, mods and admin. It's like a sheep offering to blow the wolf before he eats him. LOL Sometimes I reallly wonder if they're adding something to the gear to brainwash the members into submission.[)]

 

[biggerben69]

I'm putting it out in the open that I have retracted my promise to not follow Z and his cocksuckers around from board to board. I had no choice as I did promise to not travel.....but these garbage people gave me no choice. They can ban me 100 times and I will continue to tell the truth....has anyone ever heard of Ralph Nader? He's my hero....I will be more popular and effective than he ever was.

 

[Uncle Z.]

Blah ,blah, blah ,blah ,blah nothing to add -boring

 

[Millard]

Whether people like it or not, advertising is a necessity if you want to keep the lights on. That doesn't mean your "not able to maintain editorial independence" any less than say, the American Journal of Psychiatry because they except ads from Pfizer or Lily. If people are attacking you for paying your bills, they've got bigger issues than ads.

I can't underestimate the importance of disclosure at every level.