Adrenal Thread

[1cc]

Re: Adrenal Thread and over-the-counter treatments.

I put on 2.5 g. right before bedtime. That way I start the day with elevated cortisol. Because the HC cream is not a transdermal base, I doubt that it is absorbed that quickly. It would be interesting to do a 4x a day saliva test after putting on HC the night before.

It's because of this uncertainty with the release, that it would probably be better for you to use HC pills a few times a day as needed. At least you know that you'll be getting the HC when you need it. I haven't read or heard of any doctor using transdermal HC for Adrenal Fatigue. It would be best to go with a tried and tested method.

 

[love_en]

Re: Adrenal Thread and over-the-counter treatments.

It's because of this uncertainty with the release, that it would probably be better for you to use HC pills a few times a day as needed. At least you know that you'll be getting the HC when you need it. I haven't read or heard of any doctor using transdermal HC for Adrenal Fatigue. It would be best to go with a tried and tested method.

I know. This is simply first aid until the hydrocortisone tablets arrive.

 

[Matt Muscle]

Thank you Marianco for the very detailed reply.

 

[Chute]

Good stuff Marianco, what sort of nutritional interventions do you recommend?

 

[oki]

many thanks Marianco
i think adrenal fatigue sounds about right then...will post my blood tests asap... i just cant handle any stress... i seem to freak (im 32....for 30 years i was not this way). I spend most of the day in bed... my breathing is very erratic but my blood pressure is ok... kinda low when im lying down... 110/63
im taking adrenal rebuilder 4 times per day and chrysin 1500mg per day... any other advice please ? legenden knows that propecia is the cause of this sorry state of affiars... im a wreck... will i get better ? if cortisol comes back as normal range does this mean i will not need hydrocortisone treatment ?

 

[T Man]

I took my cortisol Saliva Tests to a a teaching and research endocrinology University clinic a few days ago. They told me SALIVA tests for cortisol are absolutely worthless. There is no correlation between the actual blood levels of cortisol and the saliva test. Its BS period. Cortisol needs either Blood or urine testing period. They said if they worked they would be using them. They said the alternative labs that do these cortisol saliva tests are providing misleading information and doing a diservice. They told me if anyone here believes otherwise. Tell them we want to see the documented research studies validating saliva corisol testing to actual blood levels. Interesting? Did I waste my money on my saliva cortsol test?

Obviously no one wanted to touch what the University Endo's had to say to me. I am looking for an answer to present to them if someone can point me in that direction. Why are these Endo'd so against saliva testing? Is it reliable or isn't it? I think this is a pretty fair question that everyone should have the answer to. Here are my salivas results taken some months ago months ago and a few blood tests. Can someone please comment on them.

Diagnos-Tech Saliva "Adrenal Stress Index" Test
Test time Result Range
7-8 AM 13 normal 13-24 nM
11-noon 5 normal 5-10 nm
4-5 PM 7 normal 3-8 nM
11 PM- Midnight 4 normal 1-4 nM
Cortisol burden 29 23-42
DHEA 2 low 3-10 ng/ml
Insulin fasting <3 low 3-12 uIU/mL
Post-prandial <3 low 5-20 uI/mL
Progesterone 29 normal 22-100 pg/ml
Total Salivary SIgA 9 low 25-60 mg/dl
Gliadin Ab, SIga 9 negative >15 Positive

Recent Quest Labs morning Blood test 9 AM
Morning Cortisol Blood level was 22.6 MCG/DL (4-22 normal range)
DHEA 368 (180-1250 ng/dl normal range)
Pregnenolone 23 (10-200 normal range)
Estradial sensitive 19 (10-50 normal range)
TSH 1.16 (.4-5.5 MIU/l normal range)
Prolactin 3.6 (2-18 NG/Ml normal range)
Homocusteine 10.2 (<11.4 normal range)

 

[1cc]

Obviously no one wanted to touch what the University Endo's had to say to me. I am looking for an answer to present to them if someone can point me in that direction. Why are these Endo'd so against saliva testing? Is it reliable or isn't it? I think this is a pretty fair question that everyone should have the answer to. Here are my salivas results taken some months ago months ago and a few blood tests. Can someone please comment on them.

Diagnos-Tech Saliva "Adrenal Stress Index" Test
Test time Result Range
7-8 AM 13 normal 13-24 nM
11-noon 5 normal 5-10 nm
4-5 PM 7 normal 3-8 nM
11 PM- Midnight 4 normal 1-4 nM
Cortisol burden 29 23-42
DHEA 2 low 3-10 ng/ml
Insulin fasting <3 low 3-12 uIU/mL
Post-prandial <3 low 5-20 uI/mL
Progesterone 29 normal 22-100 pg/ml
Total Salivary SIgA 9 low 25-60 mg/dl
Gliadin Ab, SIga 9 negative >15 Positive

Recent Quest Labs morning Blood test 9 AM
Morning Cortisol Blood level was 22.6 MCG/DL (4-22 normal range)
DHEA 368 (180-1250 ng/dl normal range)

My cortisol labs were similar to yours. My blood cortisol was over the top, but my saliva was below normal at AM, NOON, 11pm. Your saliva is on the border, which I would consider too low. Symptoms are just as important and actually more important than labs. If you have symptoms of adrenal fatigue, which is confirmed by the saliva labs, then try 5mg HC on waking in the morning and see how you feel. First thing in the morning is the best time to take HC, because the biggest demand on your Adrenals is in the morning. Your DHEA is also low, try 25mg DHEA in the morning after breakfast with about 2 teaspoons olive oil, to aid absorption.

 

[T Man]

My cortisol labs were similar to yours. My blood cortisol was over the top, but my saliva was below normal at AM, NOON, 11pm. Your saliva is on the border, which I would consider too low. Symptoms are just as important and actually more important than labs. If you have symptoms of adrenal fatigue, which is confirmed by the saliva labs, then try 5mg HC on waking in the morning and see how you feel. First thing in the morning is the best time to take HC, because the biggest demand on your Adrenals is in the morning. Your DHEA is also low, try 25mg DHEA in the morning after breakfast with about 2 teaspoons olive oil, to aid absorption.

I am hesitant to take anything without a doctor supervising. I am very sensitive to everything and anything. I do have the symptoms of Adrenal fatigue. I am very bad most mornings and seem to pick up speed as the days goes on. Usually I start to feel better at noon after eating lunch. Upon waking morning symptoms are stressed out/shaky with nervous or anxious feelings and sometimes GI tract spazaming,. Sort of a nauseus feeling and my lower GI starts spazaming. Brain fog for sure. Afternoons and evenings are usually pretty good for me. I feel the best late in the evening before bedtime. I meditate and breath after a hot shower. Life is good than.

Is this what you do? DHEA and HC? Where do you get the HC and has it helped you?? I don't think marianco was to thrilled about HC because of potential problems.

 

[1cc]

I am hesitant to take anything without a doctor supervising.

Good idea.

Is this what you do? DHEA and HC? Where do you get the HC and has it helped you?? I don't think marianco was to thrilled about HC because of potential problems.

I take 5mg HC every morning on waking. About 30 min later I have breakfast, followed by about 2 teaspoons olive oil and 25mg DHEA. I have cortef tabs tabs prescribed by my doc from my local pharmacy. Since you are just starting out treating your adrenals, I highly recommend you get the book "Adrenal Fatigue: the 21st century stress syndrome" by Dr. James Wilson. Besides HC and DHEA, there are nutritional supplements that you would need as well, in the beginning.

I don't think marianco was to thrilled about HC because of potential problems.

I'm sure you are mistaken about this. HC is of course not to be taken lightly, because taking too much may cause your Adrenals to get shutdown. You need to take the right dosages at the right time, for the right period of time. Later you can wean off of it and hopefully your Adrenals will be able to function without help and be restored.

 

[marianco]

Saliva test accuracy.

Obviously no one wanted to touch what the University Endo's had to say about the inaccuracy of saliva tests on the adrenal thread. So I will post here for more exposure. I am looking for an answer to present to them if someone can point me in that direction. Why are these Endo's so against saliva testing? Is it reliable or isn't it? I think this is a pretty fair question that everyone should have the answer to. Here are my salivas results taken some months ago months ago and a few recent blood tests. Can someone please comment on them.

Diagnos-Tech Saliva "Adrenal Stress Index" Test
Test time Result Range
7-8 AM 13 normal 13-24 nM
11-noon 5 normal 5-10 nm
4-5 PM 7 normal 3-8 nM
11 PM- Midnight 4 normal 1-4 nM
Cortisol burden 29 23-42
DHEA 2 low 3-10 ng/ml
Insulin fasting <3 low 3-12 uIU/mL
Post-prandial <3 low 5-20 uI/mL
Progesterone 29 normal 22-100 pg/ml
Total Salivary SIgA 9 low 25-60 mg/dl
Gliadin Ab, SIga 9 negative >15 Positive

Recent Quest Labs morning Blood test 9 AM
Morning Cortisol Blood level was 22.6 MCG/DL (4-22 normal range)
DHEA 368 (180-1250 ng/dl normal range)
Pregnenolone 23 (10-200 normal range)
Estradial sensitive 19 (10-50 normal range)
Total Testoserone 450 ng/dl (247-827 ng/dl range)
TSH 1.16 (.4-5.5 MIU/l normal range)
Prolactin 3.6 (2-18 NG/Ml normal range)
Homocysteine 10.2 (<11.4 normal range)

I've found that saliva tests for adrenal function are the best test for adrenal fatigue so far.

Adrenal fatigue is not Addison's Disease or Adrenal Insufficiency - where clearly there is an overall and below normal ability for the adrenal glands to function. In adrenal fatigue, there is impairment in the minute-to-minute performance of the adrenal glands. In adrenal fatigue, the adrenal glands are structurally normal. Like an overtrained muscle, they are simply fatigued and cannot reliably function.

It is important to be able to measure adrenal function through the course of the day, not just at one point or with a 24-hour measurement to determine the existence of adrenal fatigue. Hardly anyone does 4-8 blood draws in a day to measure cortisol and DHEA-s. It is easy to do 4-8 saliva tests in a day to measure cortisol and DHEA-s. The stress of a blood draw itself can increase cortisol to the point one gets a false negative. This is particularly true with adrenal fatigue, where the a person has difficulty in tolerating any stress.

In regard to 24-hour urine tests for cortisol, the problem is that in Adrenal fatigue, the result can easily be normal. The high values and low values through the day in cortisol production in Adrenal fatigue may cancel themselves resulting in a normal finding. If one has a low value for the 24-hour urine test, it should be considered Addison's disease/adrenal insufficiency instead and treated accordingly.

 

[marianco]

AAS and adrenal fatigue

Can AAS usage cause adrenal fatigue once you are off them? They do tend to rev you up like stimulants. Do AAS exert your adrenals? I really never heard this addressed. I have some of the symptoms stated above. But I don't have "low blood pressure" and don't "crave sweet or salty foods". I do get fatigued at times and everything does seem like achore at times. But I seem to have enough energy to work out with light weights or do long and fast walks for an hour or so. I just seem to wake up stressed a lot. I do experience anxiety for no reason at times as well. But these are classic symptoms of depression as well. I am looking into the adrenal connection to rule it out or not. Where can Dr Wilsons book be purchased??? Do I need to Google?

James Wilson's book is on Amazon.com. Any bookstore can order it for you as well.

The more likely cause of adrenal fatigue is bodybuilding.

A person who abuses adrogenic anaboic steroids, I would think, would only do so in order to increase muscle mass, increase strength, or improve their appearance by bodybuilding. The problem is bodybuilding itself is a cause of high nervou system stress. This is true during the bulking phase. This is true during the cutting phase. Bodybuilding as a behavior is the use of weights and nutrition to force the body to adapt to greater and greater stress loads in order to change one's appearance or strength.

Despite the rest which is acknowledged as necessary for muscle growth, a bodybuilder may end up not giving their neuroendocrine system time to recover. The more intense the exercise and dieting, the more stress one places on one's body. Maintaining a six pack can be very stressful to the body because it demands exercise and diet to maintain. Even professional bodybuilders feel very ill when they are in a ripped state. They can't maintain the state for a long time. During their off-season, many are practically obese - which illustrates the difficulty in maintaining a cut appearance.

If anything, adrogenic anabolic steroids allows a person to place even more stress on one's body by allowing the person's muscles to recover faster and allowing the person's muscles to lift greater weights. However, adrogenic anabolic steroids probably do not allow the neuroendocrine system to recover faster.

The adrenals, when fatigued, can take perhaps up to 2 years to fully recover, in the absence of any stress. Removing any source of stress is practically impossible in modern life. Psychiatrists use to be able to hospitalize people for 2 straight years before managed care came in. This allowed the adrenals to recover fully. But this is not practical as a treatment today. Thus adrenal fatigue generally persists for years even after the originating stress is removed, unless other measures are used to allow the adrenals to recover, i.e. unless it is targetted in treatment.

 

[chap]

Have any herbals been useful in helping adrenal function? I'm thinking maca, ginseng, ashwagandha?

 

[SPE]

I've tried all, and haven't had success with anything except cortef/isocort

 

[chap]

Is there ever a direct effect seen with cortisol on libido?

 

[SPE]

Actually, starting cortef made all the difference in my sex drive

 

[chap]

Actually, starting cortef made all the difference in my sex drive

Wow, I had never even heard of that before. How quickly did you notice effects?

 

[Matt Muscle]

Actually, starting cortef made all the difference in my sex drive

How did it improve your sex drive, i.e, did you have some degree of ED and if so did it help that?

The information in this thread is great!

 

[chap]

I was also under the understanding that testosterone blunted cortisol response, is that totally wrong? If testosterone was reducing cortisol, and yet you say that cortisol was your holy grail for libido, I wonder if that explains why so many see libido disruptions on testosterone.

 

[SPE]

I noticed it within a few days. The body needs cortisol. When given the appropriate amounts, it can finally deal with stress. As you know, once the stress is under control sex drive improves.

I didn't have any ED or anything although blood flow is MUCH improved as well. I would just say that desire is much better.

 

[Matt Muscle]

I was also under the understanding that testosterone blunted cortisol response, is that totally wrong? If testosterone was reducing cortisol, and yet you say that cortisol was your holy grail for libido, I wonder if that explains why so many see libido disruptions on testosterone.

I think what Marianco said, was that Testosterone has a calming affect, so that the stress response is reduced. Thus the adrenals dont have to work so hard. I suppose if your T levels were too low your adrenals may be more stressed and if they were too high the same might apply.