Advice: 35, fat, and looking to kickstart with a cycle

[Hornbeam]

I'm 35yo 260lbs, 30% BF and low energy and low motivation despite daily workout efforts. I just can't get traction.

It was worse when I was a 20yo: 300lbs @ an even greater BF than now and despite daily workouts I similarly couldn't get ahead and had poor recovery.

Around 21yo I started test and saw quick weight loss.
Ended up at 205lbs @ 12% BF and good muscle growth and I found some local success in powerlifting as a hobby, blasting and cruising steadily until age 25 when I came off cold turkey with no PCT.

I kept lifting, maintaining above average strength and took up running (10-25km races, always finishing among top 20% of runners) and felt great & looked fine for a lot of years afterwards


Recent situation:

Fast-forward to age 33 in 2020 and pandemic BS started. I had just finished a half marathon, was able to crankout pull-ups, and still no slouch with any lifts and suddenly life got fucked up with gyms and running events shut down, and working long hours and stress as a nurse I got fat fast.

I finally got my environment settled in early 2021, built my dream home gym and re-started working out and jogging, but have had no successes, held back by low self esteem and motivation about the progresses I'd lost and the crazy amount of fat Ive put on again.
After a year of this I'm still just an unmotivated fat blob with no "go". I'm just going through motions with nearly no weight loss and have shit recovery when I give my hardest efforts.

I feel like I did when I was 20yo all over again... In my case that is not a good thing.


My objective now:
I want to make a plan that is as simple and as painless as possible; The lowest effective dose for the shortest time possible with as thorough and fast a recovery as is reasonable with limited options for PCT.
I'm not looking to get into long term TRT, and I'm only looking for modest results from drugs in terms of strength and mass

My current idea is to run Test Cyp @ 250mg or up to 500mg/wk for somewhere between 12-16 weeks to help get me recovered and excited for workouts so I can experience some progress to set momentum for myself.

I know I should use PCT this time even though I haven't before, due to age and my expectation that coming off won't go as easily for me now as it did when I came off from my 4 year long blast & cruise a decade ago. I don't want to end up wrecked at the end of this cycle, and want to get back into doing the things and fitness routines I liked doing

for PCT I think Im limited to things that come in tablets (If HCG vials needs to be refrigerated, it won't survive being mailed to me?)
novadex and clomid seem to be the drugs most mentioned by others, but I could really use advice on how to best use those drugs in context with my plan.
I'll get some Cialis as well to try to keep my marriage going


This forum is a good resources for cycles and PCT that I've read through and will continue to go through, but it's tough to fit it together for my personal situation without experience or guidance to reflect on.

thanks to anyone who's got anything to say about this. Advice is really appreciated, especially with PCT for my circumstance

 

[steckdose0]

i'll keep it short and sweet- come back when you're in better shape. if you saw fat loss when you were on test in the past, get a blood test and check yourself out. you're unhealthy as it is by being overweight, you think you need steroids right now? you need a diet and cardio. maybe take some t3 if you really want to. sorry if that sounded harsh but it's true.

 

[Inspired]

What does your diet look like? How tall are you?
Around that age, a lot of things start to breakdown and/or show up. It's even more important now for you to get your diet under control. If you are eating carefully and fasting and you aren't losing weight while eating 2,000 calories a day for example, then you need to focus on diet.

If you are eating 2,000 calories a day and doing everything right, but nothing is working, you need to consider type 2 diabetes, thyroid problems etc. But I say, anything that gets you mentally over the hump and into action, is going to be good.

It gets harder the fatter you get. You have to make fundamental changes so that you don't end up regaining the weight AGAIN. Eventually you won't have the energy to lose it again.

 

[Btcowboy]

Steroids are not a magic pill, everything else should be #1 and then the AAS to assist and enhance.

Get your diet and training dialed in. Maintain that for a while, get the BF down. Higher fat levels and test is going to cause you issues with estrogen sides. If you say it is dialed in and nothing to show for it, then it isnt. Track every single thing you put past your lips, you may be surprised.

HCG is unconstituted, it is fine to ship to you. I dont PCT, I B&C but yeah clomid, nolva and hcg seems to be the go to.

 

[Rido]

i'll keep it short and sweet- come back when you're in better shape. if you saw fat loss when you were on test in the past, get a blood test and check yourself out. you're unhealthy as it is by being overweight, you think you need steroids right now? you need a diet and cardio. maybe take some t3 if you really want to. sorry if that sounded harsh but it's true.

I wouldn't even say t3. a good old Ephedrine+Caffeine stack would be more ideal for him for longevity.

TRT wouldn't be bad if his test is fucked in oblivion. But he would aromatize like a mfer.

 

[MFAAS]

i'll keep it short and sweet- come back when you're in better shape. if you saw fat loss when you were on test in the past, get a blood test and check yourself out. you're unhealthy as it is by being overweight, you think you need steroids right now? you need a diet and cardio. maybe take some t3 if you really want to. sorry if that sounded harsh but it's true.

Totally absolutely this.

Steroids are not the answer right now, all you're going to do is wind up aromatizing at a higher rate due to the extra body fat, which will make it harder to control estrogen. Then, on top of that, your lipids and biomarkers will likely suffer more. Plus you'll be at a higher risk of injury because your tendons and ligaments are not used to lifting--being on that extra test will cause your strength to shoot up and you'll wind up at a high risk of straining, spraining, or tearing soft tissue. Then you'll be fucked and out of commission and with you had just taken the advice of all of us on meso telling you to wait.

Lose some weight, get back into decent shape--THEN look to run a cycle. Running test right now simply isn't going to do what you want it to do. And then you're gonna have to PCT afterwards? Fuck that. Just get your health straight first. Focus on forming good eating habits. Stop buying junk food and get all the carp food out of your house so you aren't ever tempted to eat it. Then start lifting and doing some cardio--even just going for walks.

That fat will MELT OFF. Fast. Without any extra test at all. Ephedrine+caffeine is a very effective way to cut weight in my experience. I only need 6.25-12.5 mg of ephedrine per day, too. So 1/4 to 1/2 a pill. It's strong stuff.

Then once you're leaner and looking to bulk up to add muscle...THEN you run a 400-500mg test cycle and you'll have an amazing time doing it.

Steroids are not a magic pill, everything else should be #1 and then the AAS to assist and enhance.

Get your diet and training dialed in. Maintain that for a while, get the BF down. Higher fat levels and test is going to cause you issues with estrogen sides. If you say it is dialed in and nothing to show for it, then it isnt. Track every single thing you put past your lips, you may be surprised.

Again, this this this this THIS! You just gotta wait a little bit. Get your health straight, then look at adding the gear. This is what every knowledgeable member here and everywhere will tell you. If anyone says otherwise they're either dumb or trying to sell you something.

 

[Rido]

The effect and safety of an ephedrine/caffeine compound compared to ephedrine, caffeine and placebo in obese subjects on an energy restricted diet. A double blind trial - PubMed

The sympathomimetic agent ephedrine has potent thermogenic and anti-obesity properties in rodents. The effect is markedly enhanced by caffeine, while caffeine given alone has no effect. This study was undertaken to find out if a similar weight reducing synergism between ephedrine and caffeine is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

20mg of ephedrine/200mg of caffeine 3x a day. I would advise to start off with 2x a day at the start.

 

[Btcowboy]

The effect and safety of an ephedrine/caffeine compound compared to ephedrine, caffeine and placebo in obese subjects on an energy restricted diet. A double blind trial - PubMed

The sympathomimetic agent ephedrine has potent thermogenic and anti-obesity properties in rodents. The effect is markedly enhanced by caffeine, while caffeine given alone has no effect. This study was undertaken to find out if a similar weight reducing synergism between ephedrine and caffeine is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

20mg of ephedrine/200mg of caffeine 3x a day. I would advise to start off with 2x a day at the start.

Start low for sure, I run much higher doses of this but have used many times. 24mg ephedrine + 200mg caffeine + 81mg chewable Aspirin 3x a day plus coffee lol...

 

[Rido]

Start low for sure, I run much higher doses of this but have used many times. 24mg ephedrine + 200mg caffeine + 81mg chewable Aspirin 3x a day plus coffee lol...

I have tried 4x before and even after doing it for 10 weeks I felt like I Was having palpitations. lol.

I went on a 50% deficit until 20% bodyfat(30 lbs loss) and then started experiencing strength loss.

shit was a god send when I was young and natural

 

[Zerg]

Your energy may never come back but gear will definitely take the fat off.

 

[MFAAS]

The effect and safety of an ephedrine/caffeine compound compared to ephedrine, caffeine and placebo in obese subjects on an energy restricted diet. A double blind trial - PubMed

The sympathomimetic agent ephedrine has potent thermogenic and anti-obesity properties in rodents. The effect is markedly enhanced by caffeine, while caffeine given alone has no effect. This study was undertaken to find out if a similar weight reducing synergism between ephedrine and caffeine is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

20mg of ephedrine/200mg of caffeine 3x a day. I would advise to start off with 2x a day at the start.

Jesus christ man. That would kill me. Lots of people are sensitive to stimulants. I can barely even take 200 mg of caffeine once per day without getting jittery and anxious and feeling like shit. As for ephedrine, if I take a full pill I literally will just not eat the entire day lol. Also that amount of caffeine, especially taken 3x per day, seems like a great way to make your sleep go to absolute SHIT. Caffeine has a pretty long half life and in some people they metabolize it even slower so it can be even longer. There's no question about it, if you consume caffeine past noon you will reduce deep sleep and possibly make it harder to fall asleep and stay asleep.

All I am saying is @Hornbeam be careful and don't overdo it. Just like with any new drug, start low and work your way up. Yes, lots of people run those doses, but unless you know you aren't sensitive to stimulants, I would advise started with half an ephedrine pill and a normal dose of caffeine, maybe drink an extra cup of coffee or something. Then work your way up with the ephedrine.

Also I double checked my pill dosages, I had it doubled. A quarter pill, which will suppress my appetite SIGNIFICANTLY for several hours, is only 3.25 mg. That's literally all it takes. I take a mere 3.25 mg twice per day, or sometimes I take 6.5 mg all at once.

I may not be drastically increasing my fat burning via chemical means, but it allows me to very easily reduce the amount of calories I consume by a large quantity, and that is all you really need to lose weight. I am definitely more sensitive to stims than most, always have been. Just don't feel like you HAVE to take 20 mg/200mg 3x per day for it to work, because you don't. You can take it once per day, or you can take 10/200.

Just take whatever enables you to run a 400-500 calorie deficit and keep lifting without feeling super depleted so you can maintain you muscle mass. That's what's really important. You do that and the fat will melt off while the muscle mostly all stays behind. Then you run gear after that to bulk up and gain a bunch of muscle. Then repeat. That's how body builders are made.

 

[Demondosage]

Your issue isn’t lack of gear, it’s psychological. My guess is when you thought testosterone was helping you drop body fat, it was more the fact that you were on something and therefore putting in a better effort.

Not trying to be a dick, but Covid didn’t fuck you up, YOU FUCKED YOU UP!

The issue with your plan is that you are going to be in worse shape down the road when your test levels are lower and don’t come back to where they are probably at rt now. You said you are against getting on TRT, so if you ask me you are just pissing in the wind and what would seem like a quick fix now is going to be an issue down the road.

 

[steckdose0]

TRT wouldn't be bad if his test is fucked in oblivion. But he would aromatize like a mfer.

TRT wouldn't be bad, it's never bad, as long as it's actually TRT. the guy was talking about doing a cycle (250mg a week is a mini cycle IMO) which i am against if the person has high bodyfat.

 

[Btcowboy]

Jesus christ man. That would kill me. Lots of people are sensitive to stimulants. I can barely even take 200 mg of caffeine once per day without getting jittery and anxious and feeling like shit. As for ephedrine, if I take a full pill I literally will just not eat the entire day lol. Also that amount of caffeine, especially taken 3x per day, seems like a great way to make your sleep go to absolute SHIT. Caffeine has a pretty long half life and in some people they metabolize it even slower so it can be even longer. There's no question about it, if you consume caffeine past noon you will reduce deep sleep and possibly make it harder to fall asleep and stay asleep.

All I am saying is @Hornbeam be careful and don't overdo it. Just like with any new drug, start low and work your way up. Yes, lots of people run those doses, but unless you know you aren't sensitive to stimulants, I would advise started with half an ephedrine pill and a normal dose of caffeine, maybe drink an extra cup of coffee or something. Then work your way up with the ephedrine.

Also I double checked my pill dosages, I had it doubled. A quarter pill, which will suppress my appetite SIGNIFICANTLY for several hours, is only 3.25 mg. That's literally all it takes. I take a mere 3.25 mg twice per day, or sometimes I take 6.5 mg all at once.

I may not be drastically increasing my fat burning via chemical means, but it allows me to very easily reduce the amount of calories I consume by a large quantity, and that is all you really need to lose weight. I am definitely more sensitive to stims than most, always have been. Just don't feel like you HAVE to take 20 mg/200mg 3x per day for it to work, because you don't. You can take it once per day, or you can take 10/200.

Just take whatever enables you to run a 400-500 calorie deficit and keep lifting without feeling super depleted so you can maintain you muscle mass. That's what's really important. You do that and the fat will melt off while the muscle mostly all stays behind. Then you run gear after that to bulk up and gain a bunch of muscle. Then repeat. That's how body builders are made.

Its a big dose for sure and I do not recommend it for anyone. I run that high as I am not stim sensitive, shit I can drink coffee all day right up until I go to bed and still sleep. I just find for me it works, shit it was pretty much Ripped Fuels old formula and loved that stuff back in the day. I used to run T3 and Clen and that did not agree with me at all. Now its either ECA or DMAA, Albuterol and Caffeine, again NOT recommending this.

OP must get the foundation of calories, macros, cardio, lifting all natural until he gets it 100% dialed in anw working, getting his BF well under 20%

 

[Deezznutzz]

The effect and safety of an ephedrine/caffeine compound compared to ephedrine, caffeine and placebo in obese subjects on an energy restricted diet. A double blind trial - PubMed

The sympathomimetic agent ephedrine has potent thermogenic and anti-obesity properties in rodents. The effect is markedly enhanced by caffeine, while caffeine given alone has no effect. This study was undertaken to find out if a similar weight reducing synergism between ephedrine and caffeine is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

20mg of ephedrine/200mg of caffeine 3x a day. I would advise to start off with 2x a day at the start.

I wish the ECA stack still worked on me. I used it heavily in the late 90s early 2000s and now it does absolutely nothing. I must have worn something out in my body to where it doesn't work. I've even taken off of it for five years and tried it again a few times and it does absolutely zero. It used to be where I could take it and eat whatever I wanted and lose over 10 lb in 30 days back in the day. LOL now it seems the only thing that works is clen or ozempic.

 

[MFAAS]

Its a big dose for sure and I do not recommend it for anyone. I run that high as I am not stim sensitive, shit I can drink coffee all day right up until I go to bed and still sleep. I just find for me it works, shit it was pretty much Ripped Fuels old formula and loved that stuff back in the day. I used to run T3 and Clen and that did not agree with me at all. Now its either ECA or DMAA, Albuterol and Caffeine, again NOT recommending this.

OP must get the foundation of calories, macros, cardio, lifting all natural until he gets it 100% dialed in anw working, getting his BF well under 20%

I am a big fan of oral albuterol (salbutamol) for cutting. Especially combined with low dose ephedrine for appetite suppression. I don't ever change my caffeine intake for anything. I drink a cup or two of gunpowder green tea per day. Sometimes I drink a cup of coffee if I need it and then a cup of tea after.

 

[phenominal34]

I am a big fan of oral albuterol (salbutamol) for cutting. Especially combined with low dose ephedrine for appetite suppression. I don't ever change my caffeine intake for anything. I drink a cup or two of gunpowder green tea per day. Sometimes I drink a cup of coffee if I need it and then a cup of tea after.

Question sir …. Do you take the salbutamol 3 times per day when you use for cutting ?

 

[MFAAS]

Question sir …. Do you take the salbutamol 3 times per day when you use for cutting ?

No I take it twice. So just 4 mg twice per days. Once at morning and once at like 11 or noon. Taking it too late fucks with my sleep. That's why I can't take clen, the half life is way too long

 

[Btcowboy]

No I take it twice. So just 4 mg twice per days. Once at morning and once at like 11 or noon. Taking it too late fucks with my sleep. That's why I can't take clen, the half life is way too long

Damn I seem to be taking more than most. I start at 4mg fasted, then handling well, jump to another 4 later jn the morning

 

[Inspired]

You can take up to 32mg of salbutamol per day, officially. 8mg x four times per day.

It has a wide dosing range.