ADVICE PLEASE! Calorie intake for cutting while on Deca - getting mixed answers

[7ballp25]

Current Stats: 6ft, 215lbs, 19-20%BF

Current Cycle (I'm on wk 2)
300mg Deca/wk (14wks)
500mg TestE/wk (17wks)
50mg Tbol/day (5 wks)

After reading various forums and getting advice from peers, I'm hoping I could get some clarity here.

My goal/thought process - Understanding that diet is key to any results, my hope was to shred off some BF this cycle (my goal is to get down to 15%) and in a perfect world, have the deca assist with building lean muscle mass. So with my current stats, reduce BF by 5% and net weight gain would be 220-225.

Some people were saying that it's possible to have a low calorie intake (2,000-2,200) with Deca to reduce BF and with the support of the deca gain lean muscle. Others say that since Deca is calorie dependent, if you're one isn't consuming a minimum of 3,000-3,500 cal/day then that person wouldn't see any benefits from the deca (aka, wasted money on deca because of low calorie intake).

Currently I'm consuming around 2,000-2,200 calories a day, I want to validate that this is the right calorie intake (since I'm only in my first week of my cycle).. so my questions are:

1. Having a 2k calorie intake on Deca - will this help me achieve my goal?
2. If not, should I just bump it up to the 3,500 calories? what should the Macros be at? And will I still be able to achieve my goals even with the high calorie intake?

 

[PIZZABOY]

You lift? Cardio? Thats not many calories to build very much. So many different ways this is going to end up. My two questions, what are you eating, and what type of workout plan you got? Ok, 1 more, do you do any physical type labor for work, or drive a desk?

 

[Eman]

You want to lose 5% bodyfat and gain 10lbs of muscle?

 

[TRT]

You want to lose 5% bodyfat and gain 10lbs of muscle?

You don't think that's possible depending where he's at?

 

[Ironlord]

Common sense dictates you need a caloric deficit to lose and a surplus to gain.... Gear "bends" that rule, but people still specifically run bulking and cutting cycles because its better to focus on one aspect at a time.

Gaining 10 lbs of mass while hoping to lose 10 lbs of bodyfat isn't going to happen Imo... You're either going to cheat yourself of test gains, or rob yourself of fat loss..

 

[TRT]

Common sense dictates you need a caloric deficit to lose and a surplus to gain.... Gear "bends" that rule, but people still specifically run bulking and cutting cycles because its better to focus on one aspect at a time.

Gaining 10 lbs of mass while hoping to lose 10 lbs of bodyfat isn't going to happen Imo... You're either going to cheat yourself of test gains, or rob yourself of fat loss..

I mean, is it com.on sense that a study of young males were taking 600mg of test and DIDNT workout and gain muscle and lost fat. All had worked out for atleast a year before starting. It was 18lbs of lean mass and 2lbs of fat lost on "average". Just sharing info.

 

[Leancuisine]

When you lose 10 lbs of fat, you will look fucking massive. It's always when you start losing fat people will start asking if you gained weight.

I would focus on losing fat. But.... why take deca if cutting is the goal? Not that it can't be done, but water retention will be an issue.

 

[Eman]

You don't think that's possible depending where he's at?

I think it's going to be a major pain in the ass as compared to focusing on one or the other individually.

I mean, is it com.on sense that a study of young males were taking 600mg of test and DIDNT workout and gain muscle and lost fat. All had worked out for atleast a year before starting. It was 18lbs of lean mass and 2lbs of fat lost on "average". Just sharing info.

Post the study.

 

[Ironlord]

I mean, is it com.on sense that a study of young males were taking 600mg of test and DIDNT workout and gain muscle and lost fat. All had worked out for atleast a year before starting. It was 18lbs of lean mass and 2lbs of fat lost on "average". Just sharing info.

Meh. You can find a study to support or negate anything if you look hard enough. What was the length of the study? Was there a control group? What was their diet like? Was the amount of young males studied a big enough sample to even be relevant?
Too many variables.. Post it up.

It's pretty basic fact that losing takes a deficit and gaining takes a surplus... And it's very hard to do both. Again, I state the reason you'll see so many cutting and bulking cycles posted.

 

[7ballp25]

When you lose 10 lbs of fat, you will look fucking massive. It's always when you start losing fat people will start asking if you gained weight.

I would focus on losing fat. But.... why take deca if cutting is the goal? Not that it can't be done, but water retention will be an issue.

I see where youre coming from - I had chosen to stack test with deca because I know I. The long run it's going to establish a good foundation. My hope was to lose some fat in the process.

 

[DrinkFlintWater]

I mean, is it com.on sense that a study of young males were taking 600mg of test and DIDNT workout and gain muscle and lost fat. All had worked out for atleast a year before starting. It was 18lbs of lean mass and 2lbs of fat lost on "average". Just sharing info.

I think I know where you heard about that study....however, the actual study itself I couldnt find...share it if you got it. Thanks
Edit: looked up the video...found the study.
http://m.ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.long (AJPENDO : Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab)

 

[Test_Subject]

Running a compound predominantly intended for bulking in a caloric deficit in order to facilitate cutting seems a bit backward, to me.

Just leave the deca out and do more cardio if cutting is your goal.

 

[TRT]

Meh. You can find a study to support or negate anything if you look hard enough. What was the length of the study? Was there a control group? What was their diet like? Was the amount of young males studied a big enough sample to even be relevant?
Too many variables.. Post it up.

It's pretty basic fact that losing takes a deficit and gaining takes a surplus... And it's very hard to do both. Again, I state the reason you'll see so many cutting and bulking cycles posted.

I think it's going to be a major pain in the ass as compared to focusing on one or the other individually.



Post the study.

It was for 6 months and they averaged 125g of protein. They kept logs. No control group cause they were seeing what was gonna happen compared to them working out. We all know what would have happened if they were working out.
This was discussed in a training thread I think actually and someone did post it. A few of us read it before it was posted. This was months ago. Not looking for it. I'll post it if I can find it quickly.

 

[penche]

Me and nandrolone never get along when it comes to vascularity or cut. Now me and my friend Tren, we do well

 

[Ironlord]

It was for 6 months and they averaged 125g of protein. They kept logs. No control group cause they were seeing what was gonna happen compared to them working out. We all know what would have happened if they were working out.
This was discussed in a training thread I think actually and someone did post it. A few of us read it before it was posted. This was months ago. Not looking for it. I'll post it if I can find it quickly.

That's only 3lbs gained per month.. You can do that natty.. And they only lost 1/4lb per month lol.

OP wants to do 10 and 10 in 14 weeks...

 

[TRT]

That's only 3lbs gained per month.. You can do that natty.. And they only lost 1/4lb per month lol.

OP wants to do 10 and 10 in 14 weeks...

"Average"
They didn't workout at all though.

Edit: DO IT OP! AND POST BACK ON THIS. Time to experiment. Ha

 

[PIZZABOY]

Seems we are all searching for this holy grail. I have noticed the scale read within a few pounds of the same weight, while fat diminishes, or appears so while lean gains are made. A " transformation" of sorts

 

[Throwback]

I think it's going to be a major pain in the ass as compared to focusing on one or the other individually.



Post the study.

I think dr jim posted the study a couple years ago.
It was a very controlled group thing.
It also was a single compound study to see if just raising test levels would result in gaines vs raising it and working out vs just working out.
Op posted a result that i recall is accurate...BUT
Imo OP cycle at his size and with the choice of aas and calories ...s gonna be a push. No real loss and no real gain.
But feeling really worn out throughout.

 

[Sk8man101]

I always find it funny when people try to cut and bulk at the same time.

 

[Ironlord]

Every noob on here already thinks gear is the magic bullet.
Most of us know that you need to train twice as hard, and eat great to get results out of it.
Then you have guys like @TRT saying you don't need to eat anything or train, you're still going to get huge. Pure fiction.
You're going to have some noob reading this and doing the math from the above study, thinking that if they run 2g a week their results will be even better, and they won't have to train or eat!!
No disrespect to TRT, in fact I've liked a lot of his posts, but I Thought Meso was a safety board. Why encourage or fuel noob stupidity?