After many years of natty training I want to start my first cycle (pics and info in the thread)

[El Papacito]

Best base ive seen to start out a cycle, welldone

Thanks
I'll get back to you, I had total testosterone, E2 and DHT measured. Here are the results. I converted it into ng/dL for you because the lab here in Germany used a different measurement variable.

Please consider that I did a 6 week Anavar only cycle and then a 3.5 week PCT with Tamox. The blood was taken from me about 10 days after the last Tamox intake.

Testosterone should be 883 ng/dL

E2 5ng/dL

DHT 58.7ng/dL

 

[Para_33]

No need for EOD especially at that dose. But 250mg is hardly worth shutting down for. That's likely under ~2k total test, maybe even under 1500. If you're gonna go thru the procsss of shutdown I'd recommend 350-400 at a minimum. If you wanted to run a long cycle maybe starting at 250 and ramping up would work, but 250 straight is a waste IMO.

Longer cycles can be challenging for a number of reasons: recovering HPTA function, maintaining discipline over that long duration, keeping food and training progressing (the drugs don't do the work), etc

As a first timer no need to consider prop.

Steroids don't do a ton of heavy lifting in getting lean. In that circumstance they're primarily helping you retain tissue.

My advice is use your first cycle to grow with adequate caloric intake ramping with your growth. That doesn't mean be sloppy, but there's also no reason to expect you turn into a bloated mess just because you introduced test.

This is good advice. The only thing I’d say

No need for EOD especially at that dose. But 250mg is hardly worth shutting down for. That's likely under ~2k total test, maybe even under 1500. If you're gonna go thru the procsss of shutdown I'd recommend 350-400 at a minimum. If you wanted to run a long cycle maybe starting at 250 and ramping up would work, but 250 straight is a waste IMO.

Longer cycles can be challenging for a number of reasons: recovering HPTA function, maintaining discipline over that long duration, keeping food and training progressing (the drugs don't do the work), etc

As a first timer no need to consider prop.

Steroids don't do a ton of heavy lifting in getting lean. In that circumstance they're primarily helping you retain tissue.

My advice is use your first cycle to grow with adequate caloric intake ramping with your growth. That doesn't mean be sloppy, but there's also no reason to expect you turn into a bloated mess just because you introduced test.

I think this is all good advice.

What I would just add is, hcg on cycle is very useful I think when it comes to recovery. So even if your gonadotropins LH/Fsh were to kick back on right at the level they were previous, atrophy of the actual testosterone making equipment is conducive to lower testosterone levels. The size of the testicles relative to that individuals baseline is directly correlated to how much testosterone they can produce.

So that said, I think using hcg on cycle give you more time to ramp up and not feel like your racing to having it be short so that recovery is easier. Ideally, this would allow you to recover just the same as after a 8 week cycle compared to blasting a cruising for years. The caveat is that when nandrolone is used specifically it has metabolites that can keep suppressing you for up to a year. It’s not that you can’t recover, it’s just that there are still active Hpta suppressing compounds in your system.

The 250 may just be a good starting dose. I have a guy I’m working with and I’m having him start at 250 for his first time just for the first 5 weeks to get a blood panel on him to see how he converts estrogen etc. then that’s gunna tell me if we’re just gunna up the test or add in testosterone and Masteron together and in what ratio.

I’d say 250 test then work up to 400 test and 20mg Anavar preworkout on training days.

Every other day dosing will be more useful at 400mg per week than 250.

The guy above I’m quoting is right about that, 250 won’t likely be problematic and doesn’t need frequent dosing like that. But it still is good to do, because when you do bloodwork, you’ll be able to see your ratio of estrogen and get an idea for how you respond at thag dose and injection frequency. It will just be used for data down the line.

 

[Aman2127]

Frist of all my stats:

I'm 32 years old, 178cm/5'10" tall and currently around 78-79kg/171-174lbs.

I've been training naturally for almost 10 years now, but I have to say that not much has happened in the last 5 years. I look more or less the same.

View attachment 254218View attachment 254217

My plans:

Working out has helped me in so many aspects of life and has been very good for my human development. My goal this year is to get in the best shape of my life and do my first real cycle. Okey, I have to admit that I've already done a 5-6 week anavar only cycle at 20mg to test the waters (no problems or side effects).

I've researched the subject extensively, but I'd like to hear your opinion on my plans.

My goal isn't necessarily to aim for enormously huge gains, but rather a full, lean body without water retention.

This is what my current form looks like, I am currently on a diet. My goal is to reach real 10% body fat by the end of April/beginning of May and then to start with Testo only. I want to take as low as possible so I'm thinking of 250mg Testosterone Enanthate per week. I want to do a PCt and for the moment i don't want to blast and cruise/TRT.

Exact Plan:

- 250mg Test E per week, injected eod to avoid fluctuations in levels, so rounded up about 72mg per injection (will be hard to measure 100% accurately)
- Buy Clomifen, Tamoxifenfor PCT and in case of possible high Estrogen side effects Arimidex

- blood test with all important parameters before the cycle
- blood test with all important parameters after 4 weeks to see to see my hormone levels, whether estrogen is possibly too high and so on.

I have the following questions for you:

Length of the cycle: You read different things here, from 12 weeks, 16, 20 and so on, what would you recommend me? Please keep in mind that I am doing my first cycle over the summer and I can imagine that it is not so great to only cycle 12 weeks and do a PCT during the best time of the year. Would something speak against 20 weeks? So I could start my PCT at the end of September.

HCG: Does HCG make sense in my case during the cycle? Here you read different opinions, what do you say?

Enanthate or possibly propionate: As I said, my goal is to get/keep a lean shape. Would a daily injection of propionate be superior to a second daily injection of enanthate? I have no problem injecting myself daily.

Avoid bloat, water retention: Do you have any tips on how I can avoid bloat and water retention (if it occurs at all?) Controlling estrogen (if needed), eating clean and control kcal, controlling carbs and salt, drinking enough, anything else?

Thanks to all of you

Have you started the cycle yet? I just started my first and am glad I didn't listen to anyone telling me to start high from the get go. I just finished 2 weeks in with 200 mg a week an injection every 3 to 4 days and my blood pressure is creeping up a little more than it should so there are GREAT reasons to start low and thats your health. I am noticing a little bit of muscle put on with 200mg and i've found plenty of other forums with people getting great results with 200 - 250 starting out but obviously not as good as if you were to go higher. I really wanted to go up a little in dose but i'll have to keep a close eye on my bp. Keep in mind the average TRT dose is about 100mg a week to get a lot of guys around the 500 to 700 middle range and i've read several cases where guys taking 200mg got their T levels above 1200. Learning from Mike Israetel is a great resource. This guy gives a pretty thorough review of his experience doing 200mg for 3 months. No he's not massive but his before and after pics are pretty decent and he took bloodwork before and after i believe his level went from 500 naturally to over 1100 once he started 200mg a week


View: https://youtu.be/_PgHdZn1_tE

 

[marsupial]

Soooo did you cycle?

 

[RaddishPork]

Have you started the cycle yet? I just started my first and am glad I didn't listen to anyone telling me to start high from the get go. I just finished 2 weeks in with 200 mg a week an injection every 3 to 4 days and my blood pressure is creeping up a little more than it should so there are GREAT reasons to start low and thats your health. I am noticing a little bit of muscle put on with 200mg and i've found plenty of other forums with people getting great results with 200 - 250 starting out but obviously not as good as if you were to go higher. I really wanted to go up a little in dose but i'll have to keep a close eye on my bp. Keep in mind the average TRT dose is about 100mg a week to get a lot of guys around the 500 to 700 middle range and i've read several cases where guys taking 200mg got their T levels above 1200. Learning from Mike Israetel is a great resource. This guy gives a pretty thorough review of his experience doing 200mg for 3 months. No he's not massive but his before and after pics are pretty decent and he took bloodwork before and after i believe his level went from 500 naturally to over 1100 once he started 200mg a week


View: https://youtu.be/_PgHdZn1_tE

You have not gained muscle from the steroids in 2 weeks. It's not even fully saturated in your blood yet. You are shutting down your balls and probably barely out of natural test range.

I will never understand why people who have never done steroids come onto a forum, FOR STEROID USERS, and tell them what's best with their 0 days of experience.

Good luck on your cycle bud.