Almost recovered LH and FSH, but low testosterone

[mikelaurey84]

Hi to all,

is there any solution to raise the testosterone in a 42 years old man with LH = 2.2 mIU/ml and FSH=2.5 mIu/ml and testosterone = 0.283 ng/ml?

The story:
He was in TRT since several years, than it went off testosterone in order to try to recover his swimmers since he had LH and FSH = 0 for many years.
He took 50mg clomid ed, 2000 UI gonasi 3 days per week + 75UI hMG 3 days a week for a total of six months.
After this, he stopped everything and after 4 days had his bloodwork with these results:

LH = 2.2 mIU/ml and FSH=2.5 mIu/ml and testosterone = 0.283 ng/ml

Even if this is a very good result for him since he finally has his LH and FSH in the range, he has zero testosterone.
A sperm test reported an acceptable level of swimmers.

Is there any solution to raise his testo without having his LH and FSH come to zero again?

I think that if he come back on TRT, then he will lose all the good results obtained in these 6 months with LH and FSH.
Even if he will add Gonasi and hMG I guess his LH and FSH levels will be zero again.

Should higher dose of Gonasi or clomid help him to raise his testosterone?

 

[Gigantic]

Clomid 50mg EOD gives me almost a +400 ng/dL boost to my testosterone, and keeps my FSH and LH high.

 

[mikelaurey84]

If I have to speak for myself, 50mg Clomid every day raise my testosterone up to 10 ng/ml.
However, probably, his testicles are damaged after so many years in TRT so clomid doesn't work as usual.

Were you suggesting to use testo + Clomid?

Any idea?

 

[GuerillaPete]

Hi to all,

is there any solution to raise the testosterone in a 42 years old man with LH = 2.2 mIU/ml and FSH=2.5 mIu/ml and testosterone = 0.283 ng/ml?

The story:
He was in TRT since several years, than it went off testosterone in order to try to recover his swimmers since he had LH and FSH = 0 for many years.
He took 50mg clomid ed, 2000 UI gonasi 3 days per week + 75UI hMG 3 days a week for a total of six months.
After this, he stopped everything and after 4 days had his bloodwork with these results:

LH = 2.2 mIU/ml and FSH=2.5 mIu/ml and testosterone = 0.283 ng/ml

Even if this is a very good result for him since he finally has his LH and FSH in the range, he has zero testosterone.
A sperm test reported an acceptable level of swimmers.

Is there any solution to raise his testo without having his LH and FSH come to zero again?

I think that if he come back on TRT, then he will lose all the good results obtained in these 6 months with LH and FSH.
Even if he will add Gonasi and hMG I guess his LH and FSH levels will be zero again.

Should higher dose of Gonasi or clomid help him to raise his testosterone?

What where his testosterone levels when taking the hcg and hmg?

 

[mikelaurey84]

What where his testosterone levels when taking the hcg and hmg?

During gonasi+clomid and hmg his testosterone was about 2 ng/ml. It was a little bit higher but still low.

 

[GuerillaPete]

During gonasi+clomid and hmg his testosterone was about 2 ng/ml. It was a little bit higher but still low.

Yeah thats not right something is up.
Was he on legit trt for medical reasons?
Maybe he never was able to produce good numbers .
Thats not the norm for sure and at this point talking to a doctor might be the best thing to do.

 

[mikelaurey84]

He was on TRT because he used steroids for several years starting from age 20 so I guess the doctor told him to go on TRT because he wasn't able to produce testosterone anymore. He never thought about babies till now, so he came off TRT and started clomid+gonasi+hMG for 6 months trying to recover this sperms.

He had good numbers when he was young.

 

[Inspired]

What is his diet like and does he take any supplements? Zinc, boron, copper, antioxidant support (many options), pregnenolone, dhea, etc are ideas to read about. I would be aggressive with supplementation before I'd give up. The switch might just turn on. 6 months may not be enough. It can take 1 or 2 years to recover.

 

[GuerillaPete]

He was on TRT because he used steroids for several years starting from age 20 so I guess the doctor told him to go on TRT because he wasn't able to produce testosterone anymore. He never thought about babies till now, so he came off TRT and started clomid+gonasi+hMG for 6 months trying to recover this sperms.

He had good numbers when he was young.

Your answer is in what you just said .
If he would have at least used hcg might have helped .
A good doctor is his best bet that can guide him trough the process with bloodwork,suplements,diet etc.

 

[mikelaurey84]

What is his diet like and does he take any supplements? Zinc, boron, copper, antioxidant support (many options), pregnenolone, dhea, etc are ideas to read about. I would be aggressive with supplementation before I'd give up. The switch might just turn on. 6 months may not be enough. It can take 1 or 2 years to recover.

His diet is based on a high protein intake, 2500kcal, including fat and carbohydrates. He takes vitamin D, vitamin b12, ashwagandha, copper, zinc, magnesium, vitamin E.

Why pregnenolone and dhea? Isn't dhea useful to raise estrogens?

 

[mikelaurey84]

Your answer is in what you just said .
If he would have at least used hcg might have helped .
A good doctor is his best bet that can guide him trough the process with bloodwork,suplements,diet etc.

So do you think he won't recover anymore and the only option is to come back on TRT?
No hcg and hmg anymore since they wouldn't be useful?

 

[GuerillaPete]

So do you think he won't recover anymore and the only option is to come back on TRT?
No hcg and hmg anymore since they wouldn't be useful?

I mean if he really wants he can try but staying at those levels for a year is hell and even so he might not recover and suffer for nothing .
If its for fertility only a real trt 600-800ng/dl tops and hcg with hmg plus all the fertility suplements/diets is his best bet.
But this is what i would do but as i said a doctor who specializes in this scenarios is always the way to go .

 

[Inspired]

His diet is based on a high protein intake, 2500kcal, including fat and carbohydrates. He takes vitamin D, vitamin b12, ashwagandha, copper, zinc, magnesium, vitamin E.

Why pregnenolone and dhea? Isn't dhea useful to raise estrogens?

No polyunsaturated fatty acids (seed oils). Eat atleast 4 eggs everyday. The body needs the cholesterol in the eggs to produce testosterone.

Vitamin D3 10,000iu daily. Take vitamin K2 also.

Drop the ashwagandha.

I would take Tamoxifen 20mg daily and Enclomiphene 12mg-25mg daily for the longer term.

I would take 12mg boron daily. (Borax powder is good. Look up Borax Conspiracy for dosing).

5mg DHEA per day, sublingual. You have to buy the pills and cut them up.

100mg pregnenolone daily.
These are precursors to testosterone. Yes, DHEA does raise estrogen but at 5mg, it won't raise it much.

He needs Lugol's iodine and selenium. Lugol's: start with a drop everyday and increase in drops until you hit 50mg and feels good. Then he can lower it down over the long term. 200mcg-400mcg selenium everyday to protect thyroid.

Antioxidant support is also needed. Ubiquinol and astaxanthin for example.

Detox. Stay away from plastics. Does he work around plastics or chemicals?

 

[mikelaurey84]

No polyunsaturated fatty acids (seed oils). Eat atleast 4 eggs everyday. The body needs the cholesterol in the eggs to produce testosterone.

Vitamin D3 10,000iu daily. Take vitamin K2 also.

Drop the ashwagandha.

I would take Tamoxifen 20mg daily and Enclomiphene 12mg-25mg daily for the longer term.

I would take 12mg boron daily. (Borax powder is good. Look up Borax Conspiracy for dosing).

5mg DHEA per day, sublingual. You have to buy the pills and cut them up.

100mg pregnenolone daily.
These are precursors to testosterone. Yes, DHEA does raise estrogen but at 5mg, it won't raise it much.

He needs Lugol's iodine and selenium. Lugol's: start with a drop everyday and increase in drops until you hit 50mg and feels good. Then he can lower it down over the long term. 200mcg-400mcg selenium everyday to protect thyroid.

Antioxidant support is also needed. Ubiquinol and astaxanthin for example.

Detox. Stay away from plastics. Does he work around plastics or chemicals?

He works in a clean environment.
For how long should he go on with the protocol? And what should he expect from it?

 

[Inspired]

He works in a clean environment.
For how long should he go on with the protocol? And what should he expect from it?

I don't know what he should expect from it, and I certainly can't promise anything. I think he needs more time to recover. Almost nobody is permanently shutdown forever, but it happens.

Are you sure his clomid was real? He should try another brand even if he thinks it is real.

 

[mikelaurey84]

I mean if he really wants he can try but staying at those levels for a year is hell and even so he might not recover and suffer for nothing .
If its for fertility only a real trt 600-800ng/dl tops and hcg with hmg plus all the fertility suplements/diets is his best bet.
But this is what i would do but as i said a doctor who specializes in this scenarios is always the way to go .

Thank you for the suggestion.
So do you think a low dose of testosterone as TRT together with HCG and hmg should help him to continue to recover? As soon as you get the first injection of testo, then the body set the LH and FSH at zero .

 

[mikelaurey84]

I don't know what he should expect from it, and I certainly can't promise anything. I think he needs more time to recover. Almost nobody is permanently shutdown forever, but it happens.

Are you sure his clomid was real? He should try another brand even if he thinks it is real.

Everything he used was from legal pharmacy and purchased with medical prescription.

 

[GuerillaPete]

Thank you for the suggestion.
So do you think a low dose of testosterone as TRT together with HCG and hmg should help him to continue to recover? As soon as you get the first injection of testo, then the body set the LH and FSH at zero .

What is his end goal?
1)Lean of trt and live without exogenous testosterone or 2)have a baby?
Pick one 1) or 2) and i give you the answer.
Don't pick both pease ok?

 

[mikelaurey84]

Having a baby in the mid terms, but without spend several months with no testosterone like now. Even if now his LH and FSH are almost in the range, being low in testosterone makes him feel with no energy, depressed and with low libido.

 

[GuerillaPete]

Having a baby in the mid terms, but without spend several months with no testosterone like now. Even if now his LH and FSH are almost in the range, being low in testosterone makes him feel with no energy, depressed and with low libido.

Well he has 3 options i will tell you in what order i would try them.
First option go on a low dose testosterone like 90-100 mg per week.
Start hcg 1000-2000 ius 3 times per week
Also run hmg 75-150 ius 3 times per week alternating days with the hcg
Start with the lower dosage and titrate up as the months pass and based of his sperm testing results.
This will bypass the bodies natural Lh and Fsh production and hopefully the high levels will make him produce sperm.
He can also add proviron at 50 mg per day but this is optional.
Keep his estrogen in range upper range if possible.
Do this for a year or a year and half testing sperm every 3 months to see if he is making progress.
Most people conceive this way in 5-6 months .
For him it might be more because he had problems from the beginning.
Second option this is more controversial but it has merit to it .
He needs to take a very high dose of testosterone over a gram if possible and he can handle it two grams .
He needs to have enough testosterone in his body that it stimulate the Sertoli cells to produce sperm bypassing Fsh .
This is controversial and i have only seen personal reports of this happening and i dont know if there is real research behind it .
If this fails also there is only option 3.
Option 3 is come off everything use hcg,hmg,clomid/enclomiphen suffer for a year or two and hope for a miracle .
This is what i would attempt in his plaice in this order its a long and hard process and it sucks and is expensive.
But as i said a doctor that specializes and had success with people in this kinds of situations is still his best bet .