An insulin index of foods

[LW64]

I'm more concerned with the possibility that quinolone antibiotics have been fed to the animal. I think in a lot of animals they aren't supposed to be, but fish and turkeys I believe can still get them. And who knows what slips under the radar.

LW, just curious (no homo) [not that there's anything wrong with that] hows your physique on this diet for an extended period of time?

One of the reasons why they have to give antibiotics to cows is because they're fed GRAINS and they are as inflammatory for cows (they're natural herbivoires, and NOT grain eaters) as they are for people. You heard it here first.

I've put back some of the weight I originally lost (homeostasis is a bitch!) but, still: no excess fat anywhere except for some slight love handles which were larger at the begining - arms and legs and torso are lean and look muscular, and my face has narrowed to what it was like when I was in my 20s. My stomach flattened out to near washboard condition after six weeks on this diet. I'm 51 years old.

 

[GirlyMan]

Heh. My Ukrainian girlfriend wont like cooking for three.

I mean ... have you asked her?

Sure, but sometimes cold piss is better than no piss.

Granted ... I guess ... I mean for godsakes no, just no. It's just wrong. Do something with vodka instead. It really does go with everything.

 

[CubbieBlue]

One of the reasons why they have to give antibiotics to cows is because they're fed GRAINS and they are as inflammatory for cows (they're natural herbivoires, and NOT grain eaters) as they are for people. You heard it here first.

I've put back some of the weight I originally lost (homeostasis is a bitch!) but, still: no excess fat anywhere except for some slight love handles which were larger at the begining - arms and legs and torso are lean and look muscular, and my face has narrowed to what it was like when I was in my 20s. My stomach flattened out to near washboard condition after six weeks on this diet. I'm 51 years old.

Why do you think the love handles remain? Do you think if you cut the calories a bit they would go away?

 

[GirlyMan]

...

 

[LW64]

Why do you think the love handles remain? Do you think if you cut the calories a bit they would go away?

I refuse to count calories after being on this diet. When I want to tighten up, I cut back on carbs into the 20 to 30 range and the weight comes off, but not always from where I want it to. When my ribs started showing and my stomach flattened at week six, I stopped worrying about the handles. I tend to store fat there and on my ass, so when the weight came back, that's where it went. The overall improvement is quite dramatic, however, and more than compensates.

 

[LW64]

I mean ... have you asked her?

Dont have to; I know what the answer would be.

I'm dating the ONLY frikkin' Ukrainian woman in the world who doesnt like to cook!

 

[ergomaniac]

typical...
Meat: veal, beef, liver, pork-including bacon, lamb. Poultry no more than once a month.
Fish: Alaskan salmon, Canadian turbo, flounder, crab, shrimp.
Veggies: Peppers, onions, mushrooms, kale, spinach, broc, cali, salad greens.
Cheese: cheddar, pepper jack, (NO cottage cheese)
Butter
Eggs
heavy cream
mineral water (whatever is on sale - I like Pelegrino and Gerolsteiner)
Olive Oil (first cold pressed)
Nuts (Planters has a raw blend that's roasted in sea salt and no oil)
Yogurt: try FAGE and look for the one that's full fat-if they have it and most places dont. Anything with fruit or honey is to be avoided and thats 99% of the yogurt you will see in supermarkets so dont buy anything unless you see lots of fat on the label and very little sugar -less than 10 gm.
Lindt 90 % or Godiva 86% chocolate.

why no cottage cheese. it has less carbs than yogurt. or milk. whatever percent fat it is. and all have sugars. which arent totally evil.
where do you find raw, roasted nuts. you cant have both.
i have some question on diet. and some of the rationale.

 

[ergomaniac]

At my house the goal is zero sugar and starch. As to complex carbs; I dont even count em. Fresh vegs, legumes, rye grain, oats, barley ,fruit: all the same in my book. I can see why some would want to break it down to percentages but I eat some fat with everything, adding oliveor coconut if the ratio is low,as in oats,for instance.
Thw wife snacks the hell out of almonds.

arent complex carbs starches. legumes, rye grain, oats, barley. all starch. starch is glucose bonded together. some starches are higher on the glycemic index than glucose. veggies too. starch. im not getting some of the reasoning.

 

[LW64]

why no cottage cheese. it has less carbs than yogurt. or milk. whatever percent fat it is. and all have sugars. which arent totally evil.
where do you find raw, roasted nuts. you cant have both.
i have some question on diet. and some of the rationale.

Its easy to overeat soft cheese. Saying 'raw and roasted' was a mistake. Cheese and nuts in general are easy to overeat and are usually the reason why weight loss stalls when people first go on the diet.

re: starches. They should be restricted for weight loss but I dont believe zkt is doing this for that purpose. When physical activity is high they can be included but I wouldnt go hog wild.

 

[ergomaniac]

not trying to argue but some of the paleo dosnt make total sense. high in fat. are organs high in fat. because most wild animals arent. wild animals are higer in efas because of the way they eat. unlike domesticated. so demesticated animals should be fed good feed. so what other fat. butter. cream. is that paleo. is domestication that old. coconut oil and olive oil. assumes they had a way to press it. i eat whole olives. because of what i learned. and whole coconut. some anyway. and whole foods. and eaten together. theyre in two totally different locations. olives are more mediteranian. eggs. paleo. or eggs everyday. really you cant find that many. there are egg farms. so now you can have them everyday. same with fruit. its sesonal. so in a paleo way you couldnt eat it everyday anyway. maybe depending on location. maybe depending on genetics and ethnicity youd hadle it better. but like bodybuilders bulk with high carbs in part for the insulin maybe its not all bad. this is kind of my mind with cycling certain things. even foods and eating styles. like feast and famine. and sesonal foods. high or more moderate carbs and ketogenic diets. instead of finding the perfect diet. and eating it evenly throughout the day. unevenly you could take advantage of certain things throughout the day. and at the end of the day be at an average that is still in good health. maybe better. i eat less during my day. more later. and try to time some foods based on what i know. and choose foods because of what they contain. to optimise certain processes. im still learning. but ive learned alot. not sure if this is the right nutrition section.

 

[ergomaniac]

Its easy to overeat soft cheese. Saying 'raw and roasted' was a mistake. Cheese and nuts in general are easy to overeat and are usually the reason why weight loss stalls when people first go on the diet.

re: starches. They should be restricted for weight loss but I dont believe zkt is doing this for that purpose. When physical activity is high they can be included but I wouldnt go hog wild.

"raw and roasted" mistake. got it. i stick to raw. theyre more healthy because roasting alters the fat.
almonds might be safe. macadamias too. cashews have to be cooked. good luck with pistachios. and roasted peanuts. not good. plus theyre usually roasted in shitty oil. so yeah. raw. and really i could eat alot more roasted and salted. and spicy peanuts. not good for a diet. i eat mostly almonds. or pecans.

not completely clear on starch. or his wording of. unless its no bread. maybe potatoes. and other processed food. even sugar. fruit is included. fruit has sugar. some more fructose than other. cherries have less. peaches more. some seem like buzz words. i guess its just back to whole foods.

 

[LW64]

"raw and roasted" mistake. got it. i stick to raw. theyre more healthy because roasting alters the fat.
almonds might be safe. macadamias too. cashews have to be cooked. good luck with pistachios. and roasted peanuts. not good. plus theyre usually roasted in shitty oil. so yeah. raw. and really i could eat alot more roasted and salted. and spicy peanuts. not good for a diet. i eat mostly almonds. or pecans.

not completely clear on starch. or his wording of. unless its no bread. maybe potatoes. and other processed food. even sugar. fruit is included. fruit has sugar. some more fructose than other. cherries have less. peaches more. some seem like buzz words. i guess its just back to whole foods.

I'm more of a low-carber than Paleo; they overlap but they are not identical. Dairy is not Paleo and starchy tubers are. I try to eat what I like without letting the carb count go wild. I hear you on the roasted aspect changing the fats but the tail pipe of my car would probably taste good with sea salt on it, AFAIC, and I'd rather eat those than the ones roasted in frikkin' cottonseed oil. I do eat them raw too. No peanuts.

Starches - the Paleo ones (no bread) - are ok if you're not trying to lose weight. They're only glucose and no fructose. Fruit (just about all of it has been Luther Burbanked to increase sugar content) has both fructose and glucose and apart from having a few minerals and an attractive container, you're basically eating table sugar. High fiber slows it down, but it's still sugar.

 

[CubbieBlue]

I'm more of a low-carber than Paleo; they overlap but they are not identical. Dairy is not Paleo and starchy tubers are. I try to eat what I like without letting the carb count go wild. I hear you on the roasted aspect changing the fats but the tail pipe of my car would probably taste good with sea salt on it, AFAIC, and I'd rather eat those than the ones roasted in frikkin' cottonseed oil. I do eat them raw too. No peanuts.

Starches - the Paleo ones (no bread) - are ok if you're not trying to lose weight. They're only glucose and no fructose. Fruit (just about all of it has been Luther Burbanked to increase sugar content) has both fructose and glucose and apart from having a few minerals and an attractive container, you're basically eating table sugar. High fiber slows it down, but it's still sugar.

LW,

What do you think about diet soda? I know it's a waste, but if you are craving something is it OK in a pinch?

Also, what is all this "induction" crap I hear atkins people talking about?

 

[LW64]

LW,

What do you think about diet soda? I know it's a waste, but if you are craving something is it OK in a pinch?

Also, what is all this "induction" crap I hear atkins people talking about?

I dont drink it. In anticipation of eating/drinking, your pancreas will release some insulin just to be ready for it. If you drink something that tastes sweet - even without sugar - it's possible you'll trigger a larger insulin release and slow your weight loss. As an interim measure in going from sugary soda addict to no soda at all it might be ok, but it's best to just skip it and go right to water, tea, and coffee.

I dont know the strict definition of it, but it's roughly similar to being in or very near to ketosis. I.e., a very low carb intake of 20 gm/day to get the transition to running on fat started and begin losing weight.

 

[CubbieBlue]

I dont drink it. In anticipation of eating/drinking, your pancreas will release some insulin just to be ready for it. If you drink something that tastes sweet - even without sugar - it's possible you'll trigger a larger insulin release and slow your weight loss. As an interim measure in going from sugary soda addict to no soda at all it might be ok, but it's best to just skip it and go right to water, tea, and coffee.

I dont know the strict definition of it, but it's roughly similar to being in or very near to ketosis. I.e., a very low carb intake of 20 gm/day to get the transition to running on fat started and begin losing weight.

If insulin actually did this wouldn't it cause a hypoglycemic state if you weren't actually getting any sugar with that diet soda?

 

[LW64]

If insulin actually did this wouldn't it cause a hypoglycemic state if you weren't actually getting any sugar with that diet soda?

The quantity may not be sufficient to induce hypoglycemia (depends on your eating habits that day) but it will very likely make you feel hungry. The idea behind eating this way is to keep your insulin down, so why do it? I dont think it's been looked at in a study, so it's all speculation. After a few weeks eating this way, regular and diet soda will taste way too sweet anyway.

 

[CubbieBlue]

The quantity may not be sufficient to induce hypoglycemia (depends on your eating habits that day) but the idea behind eating this way is to keep your insulin down. I dont think it's been looked at in a study, so it's all speculation. After a few weeks eating this way, regular and diet soda will taste way too sweet anyway.

Actually, after only a few days of this I thought the same thing. I drank about 1/4 of hte can and said - ew - and threw the rest away.

 

[ergomaniac]

I dont drink it. In anticipation of eating/drinking, your pancreas will release some insulin just to be ready for it. If you drink something that tastes sweet - even without sugar - it's possible you'll trigger a larger insulin release and slow your weight loss. As an interim measure in going from sugary soda addict to no soda at all it might be ok, but it's best to just skip it and go right to water, tea, and coffee.

I dont know the strict definition of it, but it's roughly similar to being in or very near to ketosis. I.e., a very low carb intake of 20 gm/day to get the transition to running on fat started and begin losing weight.

which got me thinking. and ive read others where just the taste was enough to elicit a response. even bulemia. so bland foods for fat loss? without spice or flavor? foods that make you crave. white fish. chicken breast. and veggies. veggies without any dressing. suffer? atleats some of the time. feast then famine? then feast! im thinking...

 

[LW64]

which got me thinking. and ive read others where just the taste was enough to elicit a response. even bulemia. so bland foods for fat loss? without spice or flavor? foods that make you crave. white fish. chicken breast. and veggies. veggies without any dressing. suffer? atleats some of the time. feast then famine? then feast! im thinking...

The 'theory' (it's all speculation, so who knows?) is that anticipating carbs - especially sweets - gets the biggest insulin response. It's one of the reasons why, after a huge and very filling meal, you always seem to have room for more when they wheel out the dessert tray. You get that short-term dip in blood sugar after the insulin gets released and you're suddenly hungry again.

 

[zkt]

arent complex carbs starches. legumes, rye grain, oats, barley. all starch. starch is glucose bonded together. some starches are higher on the glycemic index than glucose. veggies too. starch. im not getting some of the reasoning.

Right. But it takes time to break the long chains down to glucose thereby keeping serum glusose AND insulin levels down. This has been discussed in depth already SOMEWHERE in here. It has to do with hepatic metabolism, triglycerides, VLDL, pattern B LDL, etc.
Try the lipids thread for more info.