Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome

Wouldn't you get pissed off if you suffered from symptoms of hypogonadism for 6 years but had elevated T and LH levels which indicate MAIS and people on this board told you that it's not MAIS?

I can certainly empathize with your plight. What I don't understand is why nothing has happened in the 2 months since the initial diagnosis. Personally, I'm the impatient type. I would have made somthing happen by now.
But, even if nothing has happened due to circumstances beyond your control, does it really make you feel one iota better to come on here and berate Dr's Crisler and Scally and the members of this board who are naturally curious as to why nothing has happened yet???

Personally, it has no affect on me one way or another whether you have MAIS or not. The only thing that affects me is to come on this board and find out that a man needed advice so desperately that he was willing to post his innermost secrets on the board and as a result, he found a solution to his problem.

The only reason I come here is to learn and because I find hope through others success. It's like watching a movie. I'm only interested in the movies where the hero overcomes adversity and wins at the end in the face of overwhelming odds.
 
I can certainly empathize with your plight. What I don't understand is why nothing has happened in the 2 months since the initial diagnosis. Personally, I'm the impatient type. I would have made somthing happen by now.
But, even if nothing has happened due to circumstances beyond your control, does it really make you feel one iota better to come on here and berate Dr's Crisler and Scally and the members of this board who are naturally curious as to why nothing has happened yet???

Personally, it has no affect on me one way or another whether you have MAIS or not. The only thing that affects me is to come on this board and find out that a man needed advice so desperately that he was willing to post his innermost secrets on the board and as a result, he found a solution to his problem.

The only reason I come here is to learn and because I find hope through others success. It's like watching a movie. I'm only interested in the movies where the hero overcomes adversity and wins at the end in the face of overwhelming odds.

That endo who diagnosed me was in London which is like 4-5 hours drive away. He reffered me to a specialist local to me, I waited and waited for the appointment date letter to come through the post and it finally arrived the beginning of this month. The app is in 3 weeks time. I can't do shit until that appointment date and there's no guarantee that he'll prescribe me test whilst I'm drinking.

I didn't have a drink Saturday or Sunday but couldn't sleep and was still wide awake at 6:am on Monday morning so I bought some more booze when the shop opened. This is when I got hammered and made those drunken rage posts. I'm sorry for that post I made yesterday directed towards you which got deleted, I can't even remember what I said,that's how fucked I was. I have three weeks left till that appointment and i need to give this shit up, I really do. Again I'm sorry for posting these drunken rage rants.
 
I didn't have a drink Saturday or Sunday but couldn't sleep and was still wide awake at 6:am on Monday morning so I bought some more booze when the shop opened. This is when I got hammered and made those drunken rage posts. I'm sorry for that post I made yesterday directed towards you which got deleted, I can't even remember what I said,that's how fucked I was. I have three weeks left till that appointment and i need to give this shit up, I really do. Again I'm sorry for posting these drunken rage rants.

You don't have to apologize to me. I don't take it personally because I assume it's a drunk rant.
By the way, my mom is from England. I have relatives in Cirencester. Don't make me send them to your house! Just kidding.:D
 
You don't have to apologize to me. I don't take it personally because I assume it's a drunk rant.
By the way, my mom is from England. I have relatives in Cirencester. Don't make me send them to your house! Just kidding.:D

I am going to apologise though because it was a 100% drunken rant!! I really didn't mean it. :)
 
Well, Almost no one.. Thats a hell of a post. Nice job....

FYI. Those pics of the female kinda got a rise out of me standing there is such a "correct position". Is that wrong...?!!!:D

Not exactly...

I have genetically confirmed MAIS. I received the genetic test a few years back, and it was positive for a mutation known to cause MAIS.

My dick and balls are normal. Everyone with MAIS has normal junk. When your genitalia has issues, then you're categorized differently:

CAIS: This is complete androgen insensitivity. Your body is that of a normal female (i.e. tits and a pussy), despite being having an XY karyotype. You grow up thinking you're a normal woman, but when you hit puberty, you find out something's wrong because you don't ever get your period (this is because there is no uterus, despite everything looking like a normal woman on the outside). Incidence is about 1:60,000 XY births. These people do not look masculine at all (see image below).
220px-Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome.jpg


PAIS: This is partial androgen insensitivity. These poor bastards really have a hard time fitting in because their genitalia is only partially masculinized. The genitalia can be anywhere in between looking like a penis or a vagina. There's a scale that's used to grade various points in this spectrum called the Quigley scale. Incidence is about 1:100,000. These people can look masculine OR feminine, OR somewhere in between... (See image below).
220px-Grade_4_partial_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome.jpg


MAIS: This is mild androgen insensitivity. Your body is that of a normal male. You have a normal penis and balls. Incidence is unknown. You do not look feminine. (See image below). The primary manifestation is infertility, which is common in men with MAIS, although there are exceptions.
150px-Mild_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome.jpg


You might ask why the category of MAIS exists at all if the body looks normal. It's because there are manifestations in the blood work. Specifically, since the androgen receptor does not work as well, the body's HPT naturally raises its own T levels to whatever it needs to in order to achieve the normal results.

There is a limit to how high the body can raise its own T to. If your T maxes out before the body is able to do what it needs to do, that's when you might get the ambiguous genitalia. But in that case, you are classified as PAIS, not MAIS.

In the last 20 years, a lot has been learned about how the same mutations can result in such drastically different body types. Here's the basic idea behind how that works:
  • Genes are sequences in DNA that encode how to synthesize a protein. As we all learned in school, these genetic sequences are made up of the nucleotides A, C, T and G.
  • There is more than one kind of mutation: when a nucleotide is changed, that is called a "point mutation." When one or more nucleotides are added in a sequence, that is called an "insertion mutation." When some are missing, that is a "deletion mutation."
  • The cell interprets these A's C's T's and G's in groups of 3. Every three nucletides tells the cell how to create a single amino acid. These groups of 3 are called "codons." The resultant amino acids come together to make the final protein encoded by the gene.
  • The cell knows when to stop making amino acids when it encounters the "stop" codon. The stop codon is just three nucleotides just like any other codon, except it tells the cell to "stop" making amino acids. The protein synthesis is finished as soon as the stop codon is encountered.
  • For those that are curious, there are exactly three stop codons: TAG, TAA, and TGA.
  • Obviously, if you insert or delete a large portion of a gene, the resulting protein is going to be all fucked up, and probably won't work at all. For the androgen receptor, this means that you will have a nonfunctional androgen receptor, so no amount of testosterone will work for you. You will have CAIS.
  • However, even if you have a single nucleotide change (i.e. a point mutation), very drastic things can happen. Suppose that in your androgen receptor you have a single point mutation that changed the triplet "TCG" to "TAG". This is only one letter different, the middle C is now an A. However, the cell interprets TCG as the amino acid serine, while it interprets TAG as "stop". This means that the cell immediately stops synthesizing the protein as soon as this "TAG" is encountered, even if the mutation happens at the very beginning of the gene. All the genetic code that occurs after this mutation is discarded. This too likely results in a non-functional androgen receptor.
  • When a point mutation results in a stop codon like this, it is called a "premature stop codon" and results in a "nonsense mutation".
  • If you have a single point mutation, and the resulting triplet encodes another amino acid, then you do not have this premature stop, but you will have created a slightly different protein in the end. These subtle mutations are more likely to result in a functional androgen receptor, but it just may not work as well. These mutations can result in MAIS or PAIS.
  • Depending on where in the androgen recpetor the mutation occurs, different things will happen. This is because different parts of the androgen receptor protein do different things. These different parts are called "functional domains." One functional domain is called the "ligand binding domain." It is the part of the androgen receptor that actually binds to the hormones testosterone and dihydrotestosterone. A point mutation in this area can dramatically impair the ability of the androgen receptor to bind to hormone, and thus can also result in extreme insensitivity to androgens (CAIS).
  • A deletion of only one or two nucleotides is actually worse than a deletion of three nucleotides. This is because the cell interprets these A C T and G's in groups of three. If you delete only one or two, you change not only the way that the cell will interpret that triplet, but all triplets that come after it, since the groupings will be "frame-shifted". This is called a "frameshift" mutation. In these cases, the cell may continue to synthesize amino acids long after the intended stop codon, since everything is off by one or two nucleotides. However, in practice, the frameshifted sequence often produces a stop codon early on. In any case, a frameshift is a complete reinterpretation of the genetic sequence, and thus results in a non-functional androgen receptor (CAIS).

So as you see, there are all kinds of interesting things that can happen on the genetic level. Depending on what is going on, you will have more or less insensitivity to androgens.

I have a single (point) mutation that did not result in a premature stop (these point mutations are called "missense mutations" as opposed to "nonsense mutations"). It is located in the transactivation domain (the first functional domain). This domain regulates transcription. In other words, my androgen receptors bind to T and DHT just fine, but they do not "work" so well once bound. As a result, my hypothalamus and pituitary "see" less T, and demand that my testes make more; I typically have T in the 1200s, but it has been as high as 1400.

I grew up normally. I went through puberty normally, and as I said earlier, my dick and balls are normal. I've had fertility testing and a testicular ultrasound: my sperm count is actually on the high end of normal --- the last count was 930 million (normal is considered over 40 million). And my testicular volume is right around 50 mL. I do have puffy nipples though --- the high testosterone I've been living gets aromatized just like everyone else. I don't have legitimate gynecomastia though (i.e. I'm not one of those guys that goes swimming with his shirt on).

The only signs that something wasn't quite right was the fact that I had a hard time putting on muscle and I didn't have much facial hair (I didn't need to shave except once every few days, and the facial hair I had was mostly at the mustache). Decreased facial hair is an uncommon finding with MAIS, so it didn't raise any suspicion with my doctors. They just figured it was normal male variation. MAIS was particularly not suspected since I am fertile. As we know, statistics are helpful, but not so much when your case is uncommon.

I feel bad for Sade since I pretty much was dismissed by all of my doctors too, until I did the research myself and insisted upon getting the genetic test.

It's true that there's always the possibility that he doesn't have MAIS until he gets genetic confirmation, but his blood work does support the diagnosis. I would guess that a lot of the back-and-forth that these threads have seen are less related to the possibility of him having MAIS, and are more related to his pissed-off drunken posts...

Be that as it may, I'm making the point MAIS is so subtle that you can have it without even knowing that you do (i.e. looking feminine is not part of the equation). After all, its primary manifestation is in the blood. If you have high T and high LH, but don't have signs of hyperandrogenism, then you quite possibly have it, and should get the genetic test.
 
Wouldn't you get pissed off if you suffered from symptoms of hypogonadism for 6 years but had elevated T and LH levels which indicate MAIS and people on this board told you that it's not MAIS?

For the record, suffering symptoms of hypogonadism doesn't 100% mean you have them from hypogonadism or sex hormone disorder.

I hope btw your treatment will work and you'll gladden us here fairly soon.

I'm even in worse position 'cause my sex hormones IDEAL, I have symptoms still, itching gyno included, WTF??!!
 
For the record, suffering symptoms of hypogonadism doesn't 100% mean you have them from hypogonadism or sex hormone disorder.

I hope btw your treatment will work and you'll gladden us here fairly soon.

I'm even in worse position 'cause my sex hormones IDEAL, I have symptoms still, itching gyno included, WTF??!!

Save up $2500 and get that genetic test. Just because you have normal LH levels doesn't mean you don't have MAIS!

The androgen sensitivity index (ASI), defined as the product of luteinizing hormone (LH) and testosterone (T), is frequently raised in individuals with all forms of AIS, including MAIS, although many individuals with MAIS have an ASI in the normal range [5]. Testosterone levels may be elevated despite normal levels of luteinizing hormone ]. Conversion of testosterone (T) to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) may be impaired, although to a lesser extent than is seen in 5?-reductase deficiency

If steroids fucked you up and killed your libido after coming off them then how do you know they weren't elevated before you took roids? Save some money up or get a loan or whateever and get genetically tested because no doctor will give you that test with a normal ASI. Structure had normal LH levels and a low ASI but he''s been diagnosed with MAIS genetically confirmed.
 
Well, Almost no one.. Thats a hell of a post. Nice job....

FYI. Those pics of the female kinda got a rise out of me standing there is such a "correct position". Is that wrong...?!!!:D

That is one hell of a nice post.

Glad to be of service :tiphat

BBC: That's funny, I had the very same thought. I mean, just look at that. It is worthwhile to note that virtually none of these XY women are attracted to other women; not only are their bodies feminine, but they do not undergo masculinization of the brain, so they think like women also.

Basically, it renders that Y chromosome all but useless since CAIS means that they cannot respond to T at all. So effectively they are women, albeit without a uterus.

As you might imagine, these XY women do have a huge shock to their self image when they find out that they were supposed to develop as males. Here's a video interview with one such person. She seems all fucked up about it: Medical Mystery: Women With Male DNA | Video - ABC News
 
I have not read this persons work. I would only like to point out that when I first endeavored in this venture, I was agass with the concept of once per month injections and arguing that urologists are incompetent due to DHT fears and the prostate ignorance/etc...

HOWEVER, as I begin to realize that (IMO) much of the middle aged Low-T male conundrum appears to be related to excess body fat and estrogen related shutdown. So I am now reversing my postition. If you give the(my) concept ANY credibiilty, then you have to acknowledge that the issue is REALLY a MINOR DEFICIENCY of TT AVAILABLE FOR ANDROGEN METABOLISM, and because the Estrogen will stay one step ahead -IN CHARGE - if I am correct. Therefore the only way to compensate is the ADD TT COMBINED WITH EXERCISE........... But just a little as this is all we are lacking due to the controlling estrogen issue. HOWEVER, there is ZERO POINT in excess supplementation beyond the minor margin lacking. Especially considering that the FAT is still in place. Really...... Why would one throw large amounts of TT on a body set up to make estrogens?? You DONT. So then the optimal fix for this would be a small dose, and WITH an ester, thus shutdown is minimized, yet a small supply for excess remains for 30-60 days depending.

Still its all rendered moot if there is no change in stimulus. I think the reason some uro's go for it is that (1) they feel the patient may be ready to make a change, or has tried and failed due to the prevailing estrogen related deficiency, OR (2) they suspect that the added TT for androgens may evoke the response as it will provide for these "feelings" reactions not experienced in how long...

So give it some thought.


He's still living in the dark ages though with the T injection treatment. He prescribes Testosterone Enanthate 250mg every three weeks. :(
 
Tordjman KM, Yaron M, Berkovitz A, Botchan A, Sultan C, Lumbroso S. Fertility after high-dose testosterone and intracytoplasmic sperm injection in a patient with androgen insensitivity syndrome with a previously unreported androgen receptor mutation. Andrologia. Fertility after high-dose testosterone and intracytoplasmic sperm injection in a patient with androgen insensitivity syndrome with a previously unreported androgen receptor mutation - Tordjman - 2013 - Andrologia - Wiley Online Library

We report on a case of a man with familial, X-linked, partial androgen insensitivity, in whom a new point mutation in the androgen receptor (AR) ligand-binding domain (causing a valine-to-alanine substitution at codon 686) was identified. High-dose prolonged testosterone therapy resulted in marked progression in patient's appearance and great improvement in sperm count and characteristics. In combination with intracytoplasmic microinjection, treatment resulted in fertility. This is believed to be the first report of such a case. This case supports high-dose testosterone therapeutic trial in this condition. Furthermore, it underscores the possibility of achieving fertility with current endocrine and assisted reproduction modalities, making some of these X-linked AR mutations paternally transmissible.
 
[Open Access] Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome

Hughes IA, Davies JD, Bunch TI, Pasterski V, Mastroyannopoulou K, et al. Androgen insensitivity syndrome. Lancet. 2012;380(9851):1419-28. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(12)60071-3/fulltext

Androgen insensitivity syndrome in its complete form is a disorder of hormone resistance characterised by a female phenotype in an individual with an XY karyotype and testes producing age-appropriate normal concentrations of androgens.

Pathogenesis is the result of mutations in the X-linked androgen receptor gene, which encodes for the ligand-activated androgen receptor--a transcription factor and member of the nuclear receptor superfamily.

This Seminar describes the clinical manifestations of androgen insensitivity syndrome from infancy to adulthood, reviews the mechanism of androgen action, and shows examples of how mutations of the androgen receptor gene cause the syndrome.

Management of androgen insensitivity syndrome should be undertaken by a multidisciplinary team and include gonadectomy to avoid gonad tumours in later life, appropriate sex-hormone replacement at puberty and beyond, and an emphasis on openness in disclosure.
 
Oestrogen Versus Androgen in Hormone-Replacement Therapy for Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome

Background - Women with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) after gonadectomy have complained about reduced psychological wellbeing and sexual satisfaction. The aim of this study was to compare the effectiveness of hormone-replacement therapy with either androgen or oestrogen in women with 46,XY karyotype and CAIS after gonadectomy.

Methods - This national, multicentre, double-blind, randomised crossover trial was performed at three university medical centres and three specialised treatment institutions in Germany. Eligible participants were women aged 18–54 years with 46,XY karyotype, genetically diagnosed CAIS, and removed gonads.

Participants were randomly assigned (14:12) by a central computer-based minimisation method to either oestradiol 1·5 mg/day for 6 months followed by crossover to testosterone 50 mg/day for 6 months (sequence A) or to testosterone 50 mg/day for 6 months followed by crossover to oestradiol 1·5 mg/day for 6 months (sequence B). Participants also received oestradiol or testosterone dummy to avoid identification of the active substance. All participants received oestradiol 1·5 mg/day during a 2 months' run-in phase.

The primary outcome was mental health-related quality of life, as measured with the standardised German version of the SF-36 questionnaire. Secondary outcomes were psychological wellbeing, as measured with the Brief Symptom Inventory (BSI), sexual function, as measured with the Female Sexual Function Index (FSFI), and somatic effects, such as signs of virilisation and effects on metabolic blood values.

The primary analysis included all patients who were available at least until visit 5, even if protocol violations occurred. The safety analysis included all patients who received at least oestradiol during the run-in phase. This trial is registered with the German Clinical Trials Register, number DRKS00003136, and with the European Clinical Trials Database, number 2010-021790-37.

Findings - We enrolled 26 patients into the study, with the first patient enrolled on Nov 7, 2011, and the last patient leaving the study on Jan 23, 2016. 14 patients were assigned to sequence A and 12 were assigned to sequence B. Ten participants were withdrawn from the study, two of whom attended at least five visits and so could be included in the primary analysis.

Mental health-related quality of life did not differ between treatment groups (linear mixed model, p=0·794), nor did BSI scores for psychological wellbeing (global severity index, p=0·638; positive symptom distress index, p=0·378; positive symptom total, p=0·570). For the FSFI, testosterone was superior to oestradiol only in improving sexual desire (linear mixed model, p=0·018).

No virilisation was observed, and gonadotrophin concentrations remained stable in both treatment groups. Oestradiol and testosterone concentrations changed substantially during the study in both treatment groups.

28 adverse events were reported for patients receiving oestradiol (23 grade 1 and five grade 2), and 38 adverse events were reported for patients receiving testosterone (34 grade 1, three grade 2, and one grade 3). One serious adverse event (fibrous mastopathy) and 20 adverse events (16 grade 1 and four grade 2) were reported during the run-in phase, and 12 adverse events during follow-up (nine grade 1 and three grade 2).

Interpretation - Testosterone was well tolerated and as safe as oestrogen for hormone-replacement therapy. Testosterone can be an alternative hormone substitution in CAIS, especially for women with reduced sexual functioning.

Birnbaum W, Marshall L, Werner R, et al. Oestrogen versus androgen in hormone-replacement therapy for complete androgen insensitivity syndrome: a multicentre, randomised, double-dummy, double-blind crossover trial. Lancet Diabetes Endocrinol 2018;6:771-80. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(18)30197-9/fulltext
 
Oestrogen Versus Androgen in Hormone-Replacement Therapy for Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome

Background - Women with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) after gonadectomy have complained about reduced psychological wellbeing and sexual satisfaction. The aim of this study was to compare the effectiveness of hormone-replacement therapy with either androgen or oestrogen in women with 46,XY karyotype and CAIS after gonadectomy.

Methods - This national, multicentre, double-blind, randomised crossover trial was performed at three university medical centres and three specialised treatment institutions in Germany. Eligible participants were women aged 18–54 years with 46,XY karyotype, genetically diagnosed CAIS, and removed gonads.

Participants were randomly assigned (14:12) by a central computer-based minimisation method to either oestradiol 1·5 mg/day for 6 months followed by crossover to testosterone 50 mg/day for 6 months (sequence A) or to testosterone 50 mg/day for 6 months followed by crossover to oestradiol 1·5 mg/day for 6 months (sequence B). Participants also received oestradiol or testosterone dummy to avoid identification of the active substance. All participants received oestradiol 1·5 mg/day during a 2 months' run-in phase.

The primary outcome was mental health-related quality of life, as measured with the standardised German version of the SF-36 questionnaire. Secondary outcomes were psychological wellbeing, as measured with the Brief Symptom Inventory (BSI), sexual function, as measured with the Female Sexual Function Index (FSFI), and somatic effects, such as signs of virilisation and effects on metabolic blood values.

The primary analysis included all patients who were available at least until visit 5, even if protocol violations occurred. The safety analysis included all patients who received at least oestradiol during the run-in phase. This trial is registered with the German Clinical Trials Register, number DRKS00003136, and with the European Clinical Trials Database, number 2010-021790-37.

Findings - We enrolled 26 patients into the study, with the first patient enrolled on Nov 7, 2011, and the last patient leaving the study on Jan 23, 2016. 14 patients were assigned to sequence A and 12 were assigned to sequence B. Ten participants were withdrawn from the study, two of whom attended at least five visits and so could be included in the primary analysis.

Mental health-related quality of life did not differ between treatment groups (linear mixed model, p=0·794), nor did BSI scores for psychological wellbeing (global severity index, p=0·638; positive symptom distress index, p=0·378; positive symptom total, p=0·570). For the FSFI, testosterone was superior to oestradiol only in improving sexual desire (linear mixed model, p=0·018).

No virilisation was observed, and gonadotrophin concentrations remained stable in both treatment groups. Oestradiol and testosterone concentrations changed substantially during the study in both treatment groups.

28 adverse events were reported for patients receiving oestradiol (23 grade 1 and five grade 2), and 38 adverse events were reported for patients receiving testosterone (34 grade 1, three grade 2, and one grade 3). One serious adverse event (fibrous mastopathy) and 20 adverse events (16 grade 1 and four grade 2) were reported during the run-in phase, and 12 adverse events during follow-up (nine grade 1 and three grade 2).

Interpretation - Testosterone was well tolerated and as safe as oestrogen for hormone-replacement therapy. Testosterone can be an alternative hormone substitution in CAIS, especially for women with reduced sexual functioning.

Birnbaum W, Marshall L, Werner R, et al. Oestrogen versus androgen in hormone-replacement therapy for complete androgen insensitivity syndrome: a multicentre, randomised, double-dummy, double-blind crossover trial. Lancet Diabetes Endocrinol 2018;6:771-80. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(18)30197-9/fulltext

[OA] Testosterone Replacement In Androgen Insensitivity: Is There An Advantage?

Androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) is the most common etiology of 46,XY disorders of sex development (DSD) (1). In the complete phenotype (CAIS), affected individuals present typically female external genitalia at birth, are assigned as female and present psychosexual development in agreement with sex assignment (2).

In CAIS, bilateral gonadectomy is necessary either due to inguinal hernia at childhood or to avoid germ cell tumor development (3). The consequence of bilateral gonadectomy is the need of oestrogen replacement as expected for matched-age women. However, despite an adequate hormonal replacement with estrogens, some CAIS women complained about reduced psychological wellbeing and sexual satisfaction after bilateral gonadectomy (4,5).

Birnbaum et al. designed a clinical trial to answer the question: is testosterone able to improve wellbeing and sexual functioning in patients with CAIS? That question was based on evidence that some sexual behavior brain activation is independent of a functioning androgen receptor and depends on the conversion of testosterone into estrogen by aromatase (6,7).

Batista RL, Mendonca BB. Testosterone replacement in androgen insensitivity: is there an advantage?. Ann Transl Med. 2018;6(Suppl 1):S85. Testosterone replacement in androgen insensitivity: is there an advantage? - Batista - Annals of Translational Medicine
 
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