Anybody watch 60 minutes last night?

Hogg

New Member
60 minutes aired a piece on the treatment of prisoners at the iraqi prison...uh, forgot the name. Anyway, the prison was staffed by a group of perhaps 7 US personnel while holding upwards of 900 prisoners. The story was aired on a 2 week delay by the request of the Defense Department due to some very disturbing pictures that have leaked to the media.

Now, if you have not watched the show last night, you missed out as I cannot regurgitate the entire segment here in text. For those who have watched it, I wanted to compare my thoughts with yours on this issue.

What I found rather unsettling was the fact that the reserve in charge of the facility was a corrections officer in Virginia. Now, mind you, his excuse for the behavior that occurred at the prison was that he was not given direction....I personally have some issues with it as the photos seemed to display behavior that was reminiscent of nazi-like behavior in concentration camps, yet I suppose without the gas and ovens. It seems very odd to me that 7 weekend soldiers could run a prison of 900 inmates without an upheaval, unless perhaps their methods were draconian. We heard the story of dogs being used on inmates, of psychological and physical 'readying' prior to interrogation, and even allegations of an interpreter ragging a teenage male prisoner up the ass.

The photos confirmed that the prisoners were humiliated and we might say "But they are fucking iraqis and deserved it".....that is fine, providing that we do not bitch when a US soldier is captured and has his fingernails pulled off or is beaten mercilessly during interrogation.....I mean, sure, lets all play by the rules right?

Beyond that, the commander of the prison and that dike with the grit hanging out of her mouth looked like the stereotypical redneck white trash that this country allows to breed without measure....I personally see a good reason to legalize abortion and to sanction sterilization in cases where continuation of the lineage will only propagate another generation of illiterate democrats. Anyway, my question is, would you want an idiot like Frederick deciding your fate if you were a prisoner in this scenario? He seemed far less than competent and perhaps one who was easily influenced. The story suggested that the intelligence agencies played him like a puppet all the while keeping their own hands clean. If I said, "Hey, the CIA needs some money for their next covert operation but we have to keep the money secret in the interest of national security, go into that bank with this mini gun and grab a million dollars in cash, I'll cover for you", would you do it? "But the guy from the CIA told me to do it!" But who did it? Ultimately, who robbed the bank? Were it that we could quit claim responsibility for our own actions, I would be a very rich man right now.

It really puzzles me how we can chastize groups such as the nazis and stalin's forces when there are elements in our own military who act no different. We are not a moral and ethical people. If the media is not around to monitor our activities, we default to our true personnas.

The segment concluded with a photo of a man in a body bag which I found very disturbing. I would wager that the man's death was certainly not painless. Now imagine if Al Jazeerah aired a photo of a US serviceman in similar condition. Would the entire country call for annihilation of Iraq? What will happen when the iraqis see these photos?

As I have stated numerous times, the US needs to demobilize from Iraq, take a bit of verbal browbeating from the international community, and allow time to wash the issue away. I fear that similar stories will appear if this conflict continues and we will face a greater backlash from the international community for our failure to conduct ourselves in a respectable manner. It seems that we preach humane treatment of the world's people but act otherwise.

Now I will turn the floor over and sit here and wait for the response of a true patriot, you know, someone with some real intelligence...the type of guy that will respond: "Love it or leave it man, we should fucken nuke those fucken iracki fucken fuckers, god bless all our fucken soldiers man, fucken fuck iraq"
 
got what they deserved lol. actually I haven't seen it but seems to be a double standard if they are being treated inhumanely. dont know the best route for this. at first we thought torture could get them to tell us where the dude on the donkey is. Since that didnt work i am not sure of the point
 
Simply put- there is an overwhelming abundance of evidence that the contrary is true. You indicated that 7 reserve solders were in charge of a couple of hundred prisoners. If they were so mistreated then they would have revolted.
My area of expertise is in the use of non-verbal behavior for lie detection and emotional expression in interrogation, negotiation and interview. I did not catch the 60 minutes episode but I can tell you, from first hand experience, the large majority of POWs and political prisoners have an improvement in the quality of there life. I realize that it may be difficult to comprehend how someones life can improve after they have freedoms revoked, but it comes down to an issue of simple needs explained in Maslows hierarchy. Freedom is not so important when you are starving to death.
I can also tell you that inflicting pain is about the worst interrogation technique. It is actually counterproductive and almost never used. The first thing any competent negotiator will do is establish rapport through empathic attunement. Rapport is golden and prized. It is then a matter of simply creating a psychological obstacle where the individual feels they are accomplishing some psychologically rewarding task by telling the interviewer what they want to know. All in all the worst I have seen done was sleep deprivation. The use of electrodes on an individuals testacies is nothing more then a Hollywood rendition and solved by people like the current governor of California.
The CIA, Department of Defense, NSA, etc. are not out to hurt the public and exist to further our best interest. I do not consider myself a patriot (any more then the next guy) but I can say with confidence that no other country or political power, with possibly the exception of Alexander the Greats empire, has done more for the human condition. As a country we do not have an untarnished history but to compare a POW camp to a concentration camp is apples and oranges and mildly insulting.
Please let me know when 60 minutes plans to air an episode about the effects of the trauma experienced when a child grows up fatherless due to a terrorist attack.
 
I was in the Army for 10 years. I have first hand experience with refugee camps in GTMO. I can also tell you that there is no possible way that 7 reservists could control 900 prisoners if they did not want to be "controlled." I will also tell you that when I was there in 94 the refugees posed a much larger threat than you would imagine. I had three people in my unit get speared throught the leg, and feet by tent poles that had been sharpened on the concrete. Many of the "riots" we had to put down were no less than hand to hand fighting for you life. I would be slow to criticize anyone in that situation. I did not and do not condone violations of human rights or mistreatment of prisoners. I will however be slow to judge those in that position. I am glad I am no longer in their shoes and I pray that you don't ever have to fill them. Not flaming, just my humble opinion.
 
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thanks for the link. interesting read. US is going to take some more international beatings over this
 
Bob Smith said:
F*ck them, we should nuke their ass! :D
I saw it, and the Sergeant said while being interview on the phone, that he and his team were not giving proper training, Ok thats fine so do what you want to the prisoners, LOL they had about 10 of them naked sitting on top of eachother, LMFAO but here is the other thing also mentioned in his phone conversation, the interergators told them to get them prep for them and just about any means they had to, so who is a falt, I think the interigators should get the blame, I thought it was funny, at least we did not drag them across the street by a rope buck ass naked! like they do to us, they got what they deserved, and we got answers. just my 2 cents
 
thanks for the insight. it is nice hearing from people who have been in those situations. It is easy for hollywood or others to criticize soldiers actions b/c their lives aren't in danger
bigpmp said:
I was in the Army for 10 years. I have first hand experience with refugee camps in GTMO. I can also tell you that there is no possible way that 7 reservists could control 900 prisoners if they did not want to
 
thick said:
thanks for the insight. it is nice hearing from people who have been in those situations. It is easy for hollywood or others to criticize soldiers actions b/c their lives aren't in danger
bigpmp said:
I was in the Army for 10 years. I have first hand experience with refugee camps in GTMO. I can also tell you that there is no possible way that 7 reservists could control 900 prisoners if they did not want to
there is no way that could be done, I am sure there is about 50 more involved
 
mAKE SURE YOU SEE THE SEGMENT BEFORE YOU COMMENT...tHE PRISONERS WERE NOT RESISTING IN ANYWAY....and what's up with that lady soldier pointing at all the guys cocks....She's a freak, and needs the people's thumb
 
peytonpaw said:
mAKE SURE YOU SEE THE SEGMENT BEFORE YOU COMMENT...tHE PRISONERS WERE NOT RESISTING IN ANYWAY....and what's up with that lady soldier pointing at all the guys cocks....She's a freak, and needs the people's thumb
I saw that to, she was so funny almost every photo had her in it pointing at there wee wee's I thought the photo with them all buck ass naked climbing on each other was fucking funny as hell, bunch of fags who like to feel a pecker on there back,
 
I would rather fight and get my ass kicked then get on my knees naked and pretend to suck some guy's cock.....He might not have been pretending..I wish they would have interviewed that lady..she was really getting off on it
 
ramboj70 said:
LMFAO but here is the other thing also mentioned in his phone conversation, the interergators told them to get them prep for them and just about any means they had to, so who is a falt, I think the interigators should get the blame, I thought it was funny, at least we did not drag them across the street by a rope buck ass naked! like they do to us, they got what they deserved, and we got answers. just my 2 cents

Interesting, so the person who commits the act is not to blame? I'm not saying that the puppetteers who played Frederick like a pawn should not receive some blame but the fact remains that he and his team performed the acts and are thus liable for their actions.

And granted, you are right, we did not drag them around in the streets buck naked, but then again, we are supposedly a civilized nation, not a bunch of 3rd century lawless tribesmen. Perhaps another way to look at this is to consider the LA Riots of the early 90s. Officers beat up Rodney King and it was unwarranted. The people of south central revolted and beat the ever-loving shit out of Reginald Denny. Your argument is akin to saying that it would be ok for the officers to kick rioter's asses a little bit because at least we are not beating the shit out of them like they did to reginald denny.....again, who is civilized ? who is the lawless, barbaric animal? Is it justified to act as they do under any circumstances? No.

As far as the allegation that 7 people ran the prison, I am inclined to believe that 7 people ran operations within the prison but the prison was more likely held by a greater support force in the areas beyond the prison walls.
 
Because she was a raging dike and thought it was funny.

Hmmm, not only did they force them to pose in homosexual positions, they also wrote on their bodies with markers.

But then again, at least we didnt brand the prisoners like cattle right?

peytonpaw said:
I would rather fight and get my ass kicked then get on my knees naked and pretend to suck some guy's cock.....He might not have been pretending..I wish they would have interviewed that lady..she was really getting off on it
 
when it comes to war i don't think anyone is totaly civilized - i do understand your point Hogg but then again who are we to judge we were not in the front lines -
 
big louie said:
when it comes to war i don't think anyone is totaly civilized - i do understand your point Hogg but then again who are we to judge we were not in the front lines -
We werent in Nazi Germany either, but that doesnt mean we dont have a voice or the right to judge.
 
I didn't see 60 min. But if human rights violations did occur then those responsible need to be held accountable. I am sure that they will be. That is one good thing about living in a free and open society founded on Christian ethics. These things are exposed, considered reprehensible, and those responsible held accountable.

PS If I were going to be taken as a prisoner of war by any country the US would be at the top of my list.
 
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