Are International Sources Untouchable? The Long-Arm of U.S. Steroid Law Enforcement

[gr8whitetrukker]

Recent events of marijuana leniency and the changing general publics view has gotten laws passed and acceptance at least to some degree. I'm not a pot smoker but if I was honest 15 yrs ago I would have told you you were crazy if marijuana ever became legal. Yet here we stand with to my knowledge at least 2 states legalizing marijuana and others pending similar legislation. This is what they called a gateway drug for years. As alcohol was once illegal we see a changing public sentiment toward pot.

I wonder when AAS will get the same treatment. After all it was once legal. And if you get these ignorant talking heads off the damn TV and get real honest facts involved their isn't much to demonize. In my opinion AAS has a far better argument that the pro-marijuana crowd. Which intoxication is always a reality.

Also IMO Mr. Baker has done the AAS community a massive favor in changing perception of steroids and it's users. Even tho small it helps our cause. Open dialogue is better than ignorance any day. And the content of MESO'S message is more intelligent than the anti-PED crowd that you see on ESPN or any other major network in regards to steroids. How often do you hear ridiculous rumors and falsehoods spread by the most ignorant of them all? I just like to give credit where it's due.

So to sum it up. Why are we going after these dealers and users? Why is AAS so demonized? Foolish.

Thank you Millard

 

[jackmeoff1]

Recent events of marijuana leniency and the changing general publics view has gotten laws passed and acceptance at least to some degree. I'm not a pot smoker but if I was honest 15 yrs ago I would have told you you were crazy if marijuana ever became legal. Yet here we stand with to my knowledge at least 2 states legalizing marijuana and others pending similar legislation. This is what they called a gateway drug for years. As alcohol was once illegal we see a changing public sentiment toward pot.

I wonder when AAS will get the same treatment. After all it was once legal. And if you get these ignorant talking heads off the damn TV and get real honest facts involved their isn't much to demonize. In my opinion AAS has a far better argument that the pro-marijuana crowd. Which intoxication is always a reality.

What marijuana has that AAS never will, is a majority vote.

Some crazy number like 60 ish % of adults in America think it should be legal. It fits right in with the amercican way- stay numb, dumb and lazy.

Imagine being a politician "selling" your bullshit for votes. It sure is an easy issue to back while winning over the majority. Shit, it is now basically right out of the democrat play book (because the percentrage of dems/liberals who suppot legalization is probably more in the 90%).

I am not sure how many Americans use AAS but if we look at active gym membership data to tell us anything (making the assumption that most AAS users are amongst this group), it is less than 1%. Obviously not everone with an active gym membership uses steroids either, so... we are talking 1 and maybe 200 people as my estimated guess.

Add to that the agenda to pussify men (illusion of gender equality) and the odds are sure as fuck stacked against us.

 

[PinMeetMeat]

What marijuana has that AAS never will, is a majority vote.

Some crazy number like 60 ish % of adults in America think it should be legal. It fits right in with the amercican way- stay numb, dumb and lazy.

Imagine being a politician "selling" your bullshit for votes. It sure is an easy issue to back while winning over the majority. Shit, it is now basically right out of the democrat play book (because the percentrage of dems/liberals who suppot legalization is probably more in the 90%).

I am not sure how many Americans use AAS but if we look at active gym membership data to tell us anything (making the assumption that most AAS users are amongst this group), it is less than 1%. Obviously not everone with an active gym membership uses steroids either, so... we are talking 1 and maybe 200 people as my estimated guess.

Add to that the agenda to pussify men (illusion of gender equality) and the odds are sure as fuck stacked against us.

I agree with most of that and I'd add that another big part of it is that needles are seen as dirty and the worst perversions of drug use. People can't decouple needle use and "bad" from their minds no matter what.

 

[Docd187123]

What marijuana has that AAS never will, is a majority vote.

Some crazy number like 60 ish % of adults in America think it should be legal. It fits right in with the amercican way- stay numb, dumb and lazy.

Imagine being a politician "selling" your bullshit for votes. It sure is an easy issue to back while winning over the majority. Shit, it is now basically right out of the democrat play book (because the percentrage of dems/liberals who suppot legalization is probably more in the 90%).

I am not sure how many Americans use AAS but if we look at active gym membership data to tell us anything (making the assumption that most AAS users are amongst this group), it is less than 1%. Obviously not everone with an active gym membership uses steroids either, so... we are talking 1 and maybe 200 people as my estimated guess.

Add to that the agenda to pussify men (illusion of gender equality) and the odds are sure as fuck stacked against us.

Not everyone who smokes weed is numb, dumb, and lazy. Not even most are id go so far to say.

 

[Millard]

Recent events of marijuana leniency and the changing general publics view has gotten laws passed and acceptance at least to some degree. I'm not a pot smoker but if I was honest 15 yrs ago I would have told you you were crazy if marijuana ever became legal. Yet here we stand with to my knowledge at least 2 states legalizing marijuana and others pending similar legislation.

What marijuana has that AAS never will, is a majority vote.

Some crazy number like 60 ish % of adults in America think it should be legal.

Not everyone who smokes weed is numb, dumb, and lazy. Not even most are id go so far to say.

The reason for the trend towards marijuana legalization sadly has nothing to do with a principled stance against drug prohibition. The reason it has the majority vote is because the majority of people have used it and realize, from first-hand experience, that most of the propaganda and the stereotypes historically promoted by the government and society's moral guardians are bullshit.

If 60% of the population (at least the male population) used steroids, there would be much greater movement towards AAS law reform.

 

[Millard]

Also IMO Mr. Baker has done the AAS community a massive favor in changing perception of steroids and it's users. Even tho small it helps our cause. Open dialogue is better than ignorance any day. And the content of MESO'S message is more intelligent than the anti-PED crowd that you see on ESPN or any other major network in regards to steroids. How often do you hear ridiculous rumors and falsehoods spread by the most ignorant of them all? I just like to give credit where it's due.

Thanks @gr8whitetrukker - It's absurd that government/society think we should learn about steroids from "anti-steroid" groups. We don't learn math from anti-math teachers or science from anti-science teachers. That would be insulting. But when it comes to AAS, all intelligence goes out the window in public discourse. I am happy to be part of an alternate approach.

 

[popcorn]

Obama has spent more money on marijuana enforcement than any other president in history. Including going after states that have legalized it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/25/obama-pot-_n_3479283.html

http://www.safeaccessnow.org/report_obama_justice_department_has_spent_nearly_300_million_on_aggressive_medical_marijuana_enforcement

"Far outspending all of his predecessors, the report reveals that President Obama has dedicated nearly $300 million to such enforcement efforts, despite his repeated pledges to not use Justice Department funds in this way."

"The Obama Administration can also be recognized for its unprecedented effort to seize the property of patients, their providers, and the landlords that lease to them. Out of nearly 40 asset forfeiture lawsuits involving medical marijuana carried out since 1996, as many as 30 were filed by the Obama Administration."

 

[jackmeoff1]

Not everyone who smokes weed is numb, dumb, and lazy. Not even most are id go so far to say.

Didn't mean it to be intended like that brother...

Just a vast majority of people are looking for an outlet. Weed can be perfectly fine in this regard. It can also be just another numbing agent.

I use steroids and the gym as an outlet. Doesn't make me any better.

 

[jackmeoff1]

The reason for the trend towards marijuana legalization sadly has nothing to do with a principled stance against drug prohibition. The reason it has the majority vote is because the majority of people have used it and realize, from first-hand experience, that most of the propaganda and the stereotypes historically promoted by the government and society's moral guardians are bullshit.

If 60% of the population (at least the male population) used steroids, there would be much greater movement towards AAS law reform.

Exactly what I was getting at.

I think the TRT movement is a step in the right direction, personally. That in of itself won't change the legality of steroids but what it might do is, even if slightly, change the public opinion.

 

[Docd187123]

Didn't mean it to be intended like that brother...

Just a vast majority of people are looking for an outlet. Weed can be perfectly fine in this regard. It can also be just another numbing agent.

I use steroids and the gym as an outlet. Doesn't make me any better.

I appreciate the response and clarification.

I've been smoking weed since I was 12yo and the longest break I've taken was 3yrs for an ex gf. In some aspects you're right I do use it as a numbing agent to help with things that arise in life. Most of the time though it helps me be more social/extroverted (I really dislike ppl for the most part), appetite, aches and pains here and there, concentration, etc. Just like with anything else it can be abused but like you an dMillard alluded to, weed doesn't have a multi billion dollar lobbying arm like tobacco and alcohol.

 

[Millard]

I thought this was an interesting topic raised in another discussion that deserved its own dedicated thread...

The U.S. has had limited success with extradition involving international AAS sources. To the best of my knowledge, in the past 10 years, the U.S. has successfully extradited 4 individuals in AAS distribution cases - 2 with British Dragon and 2 with Musclebear.

They've been trying to extradite a 5th - Brian Wainstein with Axio Labs - from South Africa for over 2 years; as far as I can tell, Wainstein remains in South Africa. I think the feds may have succeeded in extraditing his wife from the UK but I'm not certain.

They tried to extradite a 6th - Mihael Karner with Asia Pharma - from Austria while he was in custody before he embarrassingly escaped custody and went to Slovenia; POTUS Obama designated Karner as a "Significant Foreign Narcotics Trafficker" or "kingpin" under the Foreign Narcotics Kingpin Designation Act.

Two years later, Karner is apparently still conducting business as usual. The Musclebear guys served their prison sentence on U.S. soil, were deported back to Ukraine, and apparently returned to business as usual as well.

U.S. government has successfully extradited foreign citizens for steroid trafficking on 4 out 6 cases.

"STEROID KING" Brian Wainstein MURDERED

 

[master.on]

I always wonder why central ,south and even Mexico play always with USA rules ?

No independence at all.

You guys think that it can be a benefit that Mexicans cartels get involve in the aas industry?
Or can get even worse ?

There's no market for them. It's just too easy for any individual to import a few hundred grams of powder from China, start brewing some gear, call themselves a UGL and start selling on the internet.

I would not be surprised if the Mexican cartels diversify from weed and narcotics and start dealing in AAS. Wouldn't that become a big headache for the USA?

If importing some hundres of raws make money ;Now imagine bringing some kilos down the border !
Maybe not forming an ugl
But a provider of the raws .

I don't see it. A wholesale US street value of $20,000 for a kilo of cocaine and $25,000 for a kilo of meth versus a kilo of AAS powder?

I haven't done a lot of research yet, but while I do, thought someone here might know. I am curious how much E2 the body "uses" (and replaces) every day. I'm mostly interested in the process of the liver getting rid of extra E2 when levels are high.

In other words, if your E2 level is 30, what portion of that is used up each day--in whatever functions. If I am using an AI to prevent further production (to x degree), how long would, say, 10ng take to "leave" my body and get me closer to an E2 of 20?

Hope that makes sense...

Dozens of users and small time sellers (just sell to gym buddies)
get chinese raws mailed to Jose and Juanita for them to repack and remail, hand them a few dollars so they can support their 7 kid family, true it happens a lot but just a couple hundred grams at a time.
Not a large scale as to require cartels involved.

Smuggling finished vials across the border is quite difficult in large quantities.

I've always wondered what prevents mexicans from driving their 18 wheeler thru the border with one of their fuel tanks filled with semi-finished oil, get illegal immigrants in AZ to filter it and fill vials all day long?
Probably it won't make them much money.
Perhaps only worth it if they sell the whole 5000 vials wholesale at once.
looks more like Hollywood than El-Chato

And yes, domestic remailers are totally stupid
they take an insanely high risk for little money.

 

[bickel29]

Smuggling finished vials across the border is quite difficult in large quantities.

Why in the world do you think that?

How do you think ALL OF THE OTHER DRUGS enter our country? You think blow and heroin and weed, etc is brought across the border by Juanita the home maker one baggie hidden in her bra at a time?! Come on, man.

As long as there is a multi-million/billion dollar demand present, the supply will be too. Which brings us to why cartels are not supplying UGL's with containers full of finished oils. Not enough demand for it.

Why would cartels mess with AAS when there is much, much more lucrative drugs to deal in?

Now, let our government continue to make it more and more difficult to get raws and gear through customs, and the market (demand) for that may grow big enough to make it worth a smaller scale smugglers time to feed that supply. Unintended consequences that our government most likely has not thought through.

 

[master.on]

Mexican cartels?
To find out let's do some math
just for information purposes/entertainment, not encouraging/condoning to break any laws

Ford F-250 twin fuel tank crossing the border
one tank contains Diesel, the other 19 gallons of semi-finished oil
about 71 liters,
1 liter = 100 vials 10 ml each
thus one fuel tank hold enough oil for 7100 vials
deduct raws, oils brewers, transportation, vials, filling costs
the 7100 vials are sold wholesale (at once) at a $5 net profit each
$35,500 total profit. Hardly enough to get cartels interested.

 

[IwantToGetBig.Frank]

U.S. government has successfully extradited foreign citizens for steroid trafficking on 4 out 6 cases.

"STEROID KING" Brian Wainstein MURDERED

No body guards? Didn't he make over 50 million on the sales of steroids?

Frank

 

[MindlessWork]

Mexican cartels?
To find out let's do some math
just for information purposes/entertainment, not encouraging/condoning to break any laws

Ford F-250 twin fuel tank crossing the border
one tank contains Diesel, the other 19 gallons of semi-finished oil
about 71 liters,
1 liter = 100 vials 10 ml each
thus one fuel tank hold enough oil for 7100 vials
deduct raws, oils brewers, transportation, vials, filling costs
the 7100 vials are sold wholesale (at once) at a $5 net profit each
$35,500 total profit. Hardly enough to get cartels interested.

Gear is a low-margin product compared to opiates and weed.

 

[master.on]

Gear is a low-margin product compared to opiates and weed.

True but gear is legal in some countries

I thought this was an interesting topic raised in another discussion that deserved its own dedicated thread...

The U.S. has had limited success with extradition involving international AAS sources. To the best of my knowledge, in the past 10 years, the U.S. has successfully extradited 4 individuals in AAS distribution cases - 2 with British Dragon and 2 with Musclebear.

They've been trying to extradite a 5th - Brian Wainstein with Axio Labs - from South Africa for over 2 years; as far as I can tell, Wainstein remains in South Africa. I think the feds may have succeeded in extraditing his wife from the UK but I'm not certain.

They tried to extradite a 6th - Mihael Karner with Asia Pharma - from Austria while he was in custody before he embarrassingly escaped custody and went to Slovenia; POTUS Obama designated Karner as a "Significant Foreign Narcotics Trafficker" or "kingpin" under the Foreign Narcotics Kingpin Designation Act.

Two years later, Karner is apparently still conducting business as usual. The Musclebear guys served their prison sentence on U.S. soil, were deported back to Ukraine, and apparently returned to business as usual as well.

What if they run a legal pharma lab and sell everything thru legal pharmacies, paying taxes and everything
then unrelated individuals buy gear at the pharmacies, no prescription and mail it abroad?
Is the lab safe from prosecution, even if 95%+ of their products end up abroad, but they "didn't know about it"?
just curious

 

[tenpoundsleft]

It's all about money. If they can't tax it and make money from it ,they make it illegal. They don't care about health. If they did cigarettes and alcohol would be illegal. The same with certain food. Peoples taxes fund LE. They have to show that there doing something with that money.

Read up on "forfeiture" - as used, this has become an unholy legal contortion where LEO (usually Feds as the big lion going for the kill, and State LEO as the hyenas coming in to get their kickback after) is TOTALLY incentivized to go after wealthy or wealthy-appearing targets. No due process, no conviction needed - just seize the cash, the property, whatever, and then make the owner go through hoops to try to get it back. And good luck with that.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

No harm that can come from AAS? You can't be serious.

There are few EFFECTIVE medications where you can consume the entire amount of the product and not have any severe consequences. Take a whole bottle of OTC Tylenol - and you might as well sign up for a liver transplant at the same time, if not funeral arrangements. Inject 10ml of Test Cyp and I doubt you'll notice much at all aside from some bloat.

***

Let's skip the fact that steroids are hormones - and really shouldn't be regulated at all, if it weren't for all the idiots who spend weekends watching sports and wring their hands over PEDs. Those fuckers (and a good many are probably on this board, ironically) are the ones that really caused steroids to get on the narc list. Led by Joe Biden.

 

[EazyE]

There are few EFFECTIVE medications where you can consume the entire amount of the product and not have any severe consequences. Take a whole bottle of OTC Tylenol - and you might as well sign up for a liver transplant at the same time, if not funeral arrangements. Inject 10ml of Test Cyp and I doubt you'll notice much at all aside from some bloat.

***

Let's skip the fact that steroids are hormones - and really shouldn't be regulated at all, if it weren't for all the idiots who spend weekends watching sports and wring their hands over PEDs. Those fuckers (and a good many are probably on this board, ironically) are the ones that really caused steroids to get on the narc list. Led by Joe Biden.

That damn Biden again. He had low T levels so he wanted to level the field by making these drugs illegal w/o script, potentially reducing opportunities for athletes to get their hands on. But you can smoke and drink your ass off and government is cool with that.