Aromatase “deficiency” ? Can’t get my E2 above reference range. On cycle- Never taken an AI or DHT

[AromasinSucks]

Have you taken anything else around the time you took aromasin : a hep vaccine or minoxidil ?

No, I was taking test-e with aromasin and then I came off and was taking aromasin with nolva and Clomid during the pct thinking I needed it still.

What was interesting was after I finished my pct, the aromasin kept my test levels above 1200 for almost a year after I quit test injections. I’m guessing the low estro had my body trying to produce test to compensate but the aromasin destroyed my aromatase enzymes.

None of my symptoms have improved so I just had recent bloods 1.5 mths ago, 400 ng tt, 18 pg estadioI. Did an Enclomiphene restart that finished 2 weeks ago, trying to increase my Tt and increase conversion but not feeling any different. Plan to get bloods in a month to see where I’m at.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

No, I was taking test-e with aromasin and then I came off and was taking aromasin with nolva and Clomid during the pct thinking I needed it still.

What was interesting was after I finished my pct, the aromasin kept my test levels above 1200 for almost a year after I quit test injections. I’m guessing the low estro had my body trying to produce test to compensate but the aromasin destroyed my aromatase enzymes.

None of my symptoms have improved so I just had recent bloods 1.5 mths ago, 400 ng tt, 18 pg estadioI. Did an Enclomiphene restart that finished 2 weeks ago, trying to increase my Tt and increase conversion but not feeling any different. Plan to get bloods in a month to see where I’m at.

Transdermal testosterone base is the answer.

 

[Dr JIM]

No, I was taking test-e with aromasin and then I came off and was taking aromasin with nolva and Clomid during the pct thinking I needed it still.

What was interesting was after I finished my pct, the aromasin kept my test levels above 1200 for almost a year after I quit test injections. I’m guessing the low estro had my body trying to produce test to compensate but the aromasin destroyed my aromatase enzymes.

None of my symptoms have improved so I just had recent bloods 1.5 mths ago, 400 ng tt, 18 pg estadioI. Did an Enclomiphene restart that finished 2 weeks ago, trying to increase my Tt and increase conversion but not feeling any different. Plan to get bloods in a month to see where I’m at.

My advice for what it's worth, stop using PED's or ancillaries.

 

[AromasinSucks]

My advice for what it's worth, stop using PED's or ancillaries.

Hey thanks @Dr JIM. It’s been two long years of waiting and not being on anything so I grew tired of waiting for my natural levels to recover. I won’t be hopping on anything ever again.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

My advice for what it's worth, stop using PED's or ancillaries.

Go fuck yourself, both PEDs and ancilliaries are sometimes needed to feel better and to live a life worth living.

And remove that "Dr" already you fucking fraud, people are going to assume you know what you are talking about.

 

[AromasinSucks]

Go fuck yourself, both PEDs and ancilliaries are sometimes needed to feel better and to live a life worth living.

And remove that "Dr" already you fucking fraud, people are going to assume you know what you are talking about.

I appreciate your advice on the transdermal. If I still don’t recover after the restart, I may go down that path. I had planned to stay off everything but what have I got to lose at this point??? I was told by lots of people and felt that if I came off everything I would eventually come back to normal but it’s been over 2 years. Heard some guys can take up to 5+ Yrs to recover from deca, nandrolone.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

I appreciate your advice on the transdermal. If I still don’t recover after the restart, I may go down that path. I had planned to stay off everything but what have I got to lose at this point??? I was told by lots of people and felt that if I came off everything I would eventually come back to normal but it’s been over 2 years. Heard some guys can take up to 5+ Yrs to recover from deca, nandrolone.

We always have plenty more to lose don't kid yourself.
But transdermal testosterone base is as safe as it gets, you risk almost nothing.

 

[Jaxino]

My ultra sensitive Estradiol is only 24.5 pg/ml
Ref.Range (8-35pg/ml) and I’m taking 600mg Testosterone per week and no AI or DHT derivative. My Testosterone is from my prescribed compounded pharmacy too and doesn’t contain any other Ai formulated into it. I’ve actually never taken an AI pill in my life ever.

I’ve thought about reaching out for anecdotes as well as anyones input from research on this area.

_______
I’m on
600mg/week Testosterone Enanthate- 630mg/week Nandrolone Decanoate - HCG 2000iu/week- 50mg/day DHEA/Pregnenolone- HMG I’ve added in recently at 75iu every other week or so.

______

The reason I actually discovered this is when I was a lifetime natural looking to optimize and get blood tests done and discovered I had seriously low E2 4.5 pg/ml (ref. 8-35 pg/ml) despite my total T being 380- 500 ng/dl.

I am taking suboxone that I’m tapering off still, so I was able to see that suboxone was lowering my total T a significant degree, but at even 450ng/dl. That should still be enough to provide an E2 that’s somewhat close to in range- where as mine was half the bottom number on the reference range.

Long story short, I got on TRT because of Low E2 more so than Low T.

But I then went on to find that standard trt dosages putting my total t at 900+ at trough, was still not enough to even break 20 pg/ml.


________


Any experience of hearing of “low aromatizers” ?

I know some people can “get away” with taking high doses of Test with no AI, but I always assumed they still had an elevated E2 , just that it wasn’t high to the point of being problematic for them.

I seem to have gone searching for TRT, only to find out that “ERT” is actually what I needed lol. Obviously that probably wouldn’t work given taking exogenous E2 would shut down my T.

I seem to need a TRT regimen/ Blast Cruise regimen that requires some sort of exogenous injectable estradiol cypionate or estradiol valerate to be optimized and reduce my risk of Alzheimer’s and trashed lipids. ( side note my hdl is 51 mg/dl, that high/good for being on this high of a dose right ?)

Idk if it matters but my SHBG is still staying higher than I would expect. The gear is real from my pharmacy and my total T being above the reference range plus reflects this as well.

So, am I a weirdo ? Or am I missing something stupidly obvious and I’m just an idiot lol ?

A friend of mine had a quite similar issue.... In the end it was a prolactinoma. Took Dostinex prescribed from his doc and solved the issue in 3-4 months.

Despite how much he was using of Test his E2 were always around 20ish, libido was bad, anxious, sometimes depressed.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Deleted member 59947]

A friend of mine had a quite similar issue.... In the end it was a prolactinoma. Took Dostinex prescribed from his doc and solved the issue in 3-4 months.

Despite how much he was using of Test his E2 were always around 20ish, libido was bad, anxious, sometimes depressed.

Just my 2 cents

Classic sign of low serum e2 and high tissue e2 : high prolactin.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

My ultra sensitive Estradiol is only 24.5 pg/ml
Ref.Range (8-35pg/ml) and I’m taking 600mg Testosterone per week and no AI or DHT derivative. My Testosterone is from my prescribed compounded pharmacy too and doesn’t contain any other Ai formulated into it. I’ve actually never taken an AI pill in my life ever.

I’ve thought about reaching out for anecdotes as well as anyones input from research on this area.

_______
I’m on
600mg/week Testosterone Enanthate- 630mg/week Nandrolone Decanoate - HCG 2000iu/week- 50mg/day DHEA/Pregnenolone- HMG I’ve added in recently at 75iu every other week or so.

______

The reason I actually discovered this is when I was a lifetime natural looking to optimize and get blood tests done and discovered I had seriously low E2 4.5 pg/ml (ref. 8-35 pg/ml) despite my total T being 380- 500 ng/dl.

I am taking suboxone that I’m tapering off still, so I was able to see that suboxone was lowering my total T a significant degree, but at even 450ng/dl. That should still be enough to provide an E2 that’s somewhat close to in range- where as mine was half the bottom number on the reference range.

Long story short, I got on TRT because of Low E2 more so than Low T.

But I then went on to find that standard trt dosages putting my total t at 900+ at trough, was still not enough to even break 20 pg/ml.


________


Any experience of hearing of “low aromatizers” ?

I know some people can “get away” with taking high doses of Test with no AI, but I always assumed they still had an elevated E2 , just that it wasn’t high to the point of being problematic for them.

I seem to have gone searching for TRT, only to find out that “ERT” is actually what I needed lol. Obviously that probably wouldn’t work given taking exogenous E2 would shut down my T.

I seem to need a TRT regimen/ Blast Cruise regimen that requires some sort of exogenous injectable estradiol cypionate or estradiol valerate to be optimized and reduce my risk of Alzheimer’s and trashed lipids. ( side note my hdl is 51 mg/dl, that high/good for being on this high of a dose right ?)

Idk if it matters but my SHBG is still staying higher than I would expect. The gear is real from my pharmacy and my total T being above the reference range plus reflects this as well.

So, am I a weirdo ? Or am I missing something stupidly obvious and I’m just an idiot lol ?

Have you tried Dbol ?
Has it momentarily solved the problem ?

@AromasinSucks same question to you

 

[Para_33]

Have you tried Dbol ?
Has it momentarily solved the problem ?

@AromasinSucks same question to you

I went on to a phase where I used Deca, and Anavar, and used injectable estradiol. It worked great. I then carried on the tren to my cutting phase and sealed the Deca for Tren, Masteron, Winstrol.

So this part of the cycle was Tren, masteron, winstrol, no testosterone. ( 2.4mg per week estradiol valerate to get my e2 where I like it around 60pg/ml)

I later added testosterone into this part of the cycle but only 100mg per week. I just decreased the dose of the exogenous estradiol and this also worked.

I did a lab at the highest point and accidentally got my E2 to 90pg/ml. Lowered the dose somewhat.

At another point I lowered it too much down to 20pg/ml


I wonder if the issue is still occurring so on my cruise I’m doing measurements on just 120mg testosterone per week. See what it reads. Go up slowly to start my blast again on 300mg or so and see what e2 reads again


One odd thing, the first e2 check on 120mg per week, my e2 was in the high 30s with a 950 total T.

Last year on 600 test/700 Deca, multiple times it was between 45-51 pg/ml with a 3800ish total T. So very close to the same estrogen level despite radically different doses and total Testosterone levels.

 

[Rido]

I guess I still do not understand the point of increasing your e2 at all.

 

[Para_33]

I guess I still do not understand the point of increasing your e2 at all.

If I want to run trt. all last year it resulted in an e2 at the bottom of the range or below at times despite a total and Free that were out of the ref range. I just felt better with it in the upper middle or even somewhat over.

During a blast Id rather be around 60-90 which is what I like best personally for a whole bunch of reasons according to me.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

I guess I still do not understand the point of increasing your e2 at all.

That's because you haven't had permanently lowered e2 from Aromasin use and not addressed it for years onwards.

Low e2 for months is true depression, zombie life, no will, no libido, no drive, not even the guts to commit suicide. You're stuck in hell.

Anything that slightly boosts e2 makes life worth living again.

 

[Rido]

That's because you haven't had permanently lowered e2 from Aromasin use and not addressed it for years onwards.

Low e2 for months is true depression, zombie life, no will, no libido, no drive, not even the guts to commit suicide. You're stuck in hell.

Anything that slightly boosts e2 makes life worth living again.

I understand the issues with crashing e2.


but this is baseline for him.

I thought aromasin wasnt associated with permanently lowering it but arimidex was?

 

[Deleted member 59947]

I thought aromasin wasnt associated with permanently lowering it but arimidex was?

That's because most people using aromasin never come off AAS.
If they do come off and feel like shit, they will blame the lack of AAS, not the lack of e2.

I played with aromasin way before I played with any AAS, that's how I could isolate the culprit.

 

[Jaxino]

My ultra sensitive Estradiol is only 24.5 pg/ml
Ref.Range (8-35pg/ml) and I’m taking 600mg Testosterone per week and no AI or DHT derivative. My Testosterone is from my prescribed compounded pharmacy too and doesn’t contain any other Ai formulated into it. I’ve actually never taken an AI pill in my life ever.

I’ve thought about reaching out for anecdotes as well as anyones input from research on this area.

_______
I’m on
600mg/week Testosterone Enanthate- 630mg/week Nandrolone Decanoate - HCG 2000iu/week- 50mg/day DHEA/Pregnenolone- HMG I’ve added in recently at 75iu every other week or so.

______

The reason I actually discovered this is when I was a lifetime natural looking to optimize and get blood tests done and discovered I had seriously low E2 4.5 pg/ml (ref. 8-35 pg/ml) despite my total T being 380- 500 ng/dl.

I am taking suboxone that I’m tapering off still, so I was able to see that suboxone was lowering my total T a significant degree, but at even 450ng/dl. That should still be enough to provide an E2 that’s somewhat close to in range- where as mine was half the bottom number on the reference range.

Long story short, I got on TRT because of Low E2 more so than Low T.

But I then went on to find that standard trt dosages putting my total t at 900+ at trough, was still not enough to even break 20 pg/ml.


________


Any experience of hearing of “low aromatizers” ?

I know some people can “get away” with taking high doses of Test with no AI, but I always assumed they still had an elevated E2 , just that it wasn’t high to the point of being problematic for them.

I seem to have gone searching for TRT, only to find out that “ERT” is actually what I needed lol. Obviously that probably wouldn’t work given taking exogenous E2 would shut down my T.

I seem to need a TRT regimen/ Blast Cruise regimen that requires some sort of exogenous injectable estradiol cypionate or estradiol valerate to be optimized and reduce my risk of Alzheimer’s and trashed lipids. ( side note my hdl is 51 mg/dl, that high/good for being on this high of a dose right ?)

Idk if it matters but my SHBG is still staying higher than I would expect. The gear is real from my pharmacy and my total T being above the reference range plus reflects this as well.

So, am I a weirdo ? Or am I missing something stupidly obvious and I’m just an idiot lol ?

A friend of mine had 5ish pg/ml estradiol even on 1g TestE.

In the end he found a good doc that asked him to do an MRI to his brain, long story short they found a prolactinoma, got cured with Dostinex. Now he is fine after YEARS of low e2.

 

[Para_33]

A friend of mine had 5ish pg/ml estradiol even on 1g TestE.

In the end he found a good doc that asked him to do an MRI to his brain, long story short they found a prolactinoma, got cured with Dostinex. Now he is fine after YEARS of low e2.

That’s interesting, maybe I lack the understanding, but off hand, I can’t see any way that makes sense to me personally. As in I can’t see how prolactin would serve to decrease the aromatization of testosterone.

It’s not that I don’t believe you. That’s just the first time I’ve heard of a prolactinoma causing low e2

 

[Para_33]

That's because you haven't had permanently lowered e2 from Aromasin use and not addressed it for years onwards.

Low e2 for months is true depression, zombie life, no will, no libido, no drive, not even the guts to commit suicide. You're stuck in hell.

Anything that slightly boosts e2 makes life worth living again.

What else have you seen in terms of info/anecdotes of this happening ? In terms of aromasin leading to a permanent reduction in aromatase activity ?

I’ve come across a handful of other reports or people stating this I’ve just failed to see how this would work and be the case long after the drug has cleared. Maybe there is some long lasting metabolites that last for several months ?

I’m just curious with how it all works, for me I never used an Ai in my life, it’s just that naturally as a lifetime natty I had almost undetectable levels of e2 with a mid range total T. And then even when I got on trt and boosted myself to the top of the total and free t reference range, my e2 still hardly budged. I mean it increased a little bit but it was still at the very bottom of the reference range or below despite my free/total T being at the top.

It went on for a whole year like this checking it every other month or so. At times more often than that

Idk if something has changed, but now, I just went on cruise for the first time on 120mg testosterone, and my T:E2 ratio is actually normal and like what you would expect for most people- which is a first for me. So 120mg put me at 950 Total T and 38 E2 All last year that was putting me at 900 total T and an E2 of 12-15

 

[Para_33]

I understand the issues with crashing e2.


but this is baseline for him.

I thought aromasin wasnt associated with permanently lowering it but arimidex was?

To sum it up, I personally feel benefits when it’s a bit higher than where e2 seems to fall naturally. Particularly when I’ve been on lesser doses of testosterone.

If I had to describe it- Things seem a bit more vivid, sensation is heightened somewhat. Speaking I’ll be more apt to just talk for the sake of it instead of being super clinical about everything. Sex being better is probably the most noticeable effect. Not like I’m thinking about it more, but when I actually do it, I’ve felt like there is a bit more enhancement of some of the more subtle things.

It’s weird, hormones aren’t like something I feel at any given time like a drug, I’m just gathering this from a dozen anecdotal situations in my life

That’s just what my personal preference is for the time being.

I could change my mind though.