Ass to grass vs. Parallel squats

[A-a-Ron]

Fukena! I've always been a leg press guy and as I stated above, this article convinced me to do squats...no matter how awkward they feel. I've been going ass to grass so deep, even the regular squatters mention it (i even tore the ass out on my shorts last week) I've been on the smith up until this week and graduated up to just me and the bar this last Tuesday. I've always had pretty thick legs and do 720 on the leg press knee to chest. On the smith machine I've been doing 225 and Tuesday I dropped down to 135 while I improve my form. I have to say, even with the lighter weight, my legs have exploded! To everyone who does presses...at least you are doing legs. But move to squats. I'm sold after 5 weeks. Thanks guys!

 

[brutus79]

Fukena! I've always been a leg press guy and as I stated above, this article convinced me to do squats...no matter how awkward they feel. I've been going ass to grass so deep, even the regular squatters mention it (i even tore the ass out on my shorts last week) I've been on the smith up until this week and graduated up to just me and the bar this last Tuesday. I've always had pretty thick legs and do 720 on the leg press knee to chest. On the smith machine I've been doing 225 and Tuesday I dropped down to 135 while I improve my form. I have to say, even with the lighter weight, my legs have exploded! To everyone who does presses...at least you are doing legs. But move to squats. I'm sold after 5 weeks. Thanks guys!

Squats on the smith machine are HORRIBLE for you brother. Switch to a rack and barbell. Weight on your heels, chest up and rigid core. Smith machine squats are terrible for your spine. I also wouldn't go that low on the leg press - never let your butt lift or your back bend. You can shear your spine if you fail.... you only get one back my friend! Be nice to it.

 

[TyroneMoreGains]

I've been doing atg squats for a while but I have one problem. My calves hurt
Like hell after every set. I'm think it might just be tight hamstrings.
any ideas on how to fix this?

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I've been doing atg squats for a while but in have one problem. My calves hurt
Like hell after every set. I'm think it might just be tight hamstrings.
any ideas on how to fix this?

As a former runner...I mean former. I used to stretch my calves by standing face first Into a wall put one foot sole against the wall. Now lean forward. Best calf stretch

 

[A-a-Ron]

Squats on the smith machine are HORRIBLE for you brother. Switch to a rack and barbell. Weight on your heels, chest up and rigid core. Smith machine squats are terrible for your spine. I also wouldn't go that low on the leg press - never let your butt lift or your back bend. You can shear your spine if you fail.... you only get one back my friend! Be nice to it.

Thanks for the advice. I'm a little ignorant on squats as they've always been awkward. I moved to the rack this week, and I will stay there per your warning. I definitely know there is a difference in what muscle ls you are using. I'm burning from my quads up and over to just south of the boys.

 

[ruckin]

Fukena! I've always been a leg press guy and as I stated above, this article convinced me to do squats...no matter how awkward they feel. I've been going ass to grass so deep, even the regular squatters mention it (i even tore the ass out on my shorts last week) I've been on the smith up until this week and graduated up to just me and the bar this last Tuesday. I've always had pretty thick legs and do 720 on the leg press knee to chest. On the smith machine I've been doing 225 and Tuesday I dropped down to 135 while I improve my form. I have to say, even with the lighter weight, my legs have exploded! To everyone who does presses...at least you are doing legs. But move to squats. I'm sold after 5 weeks. Thanks guys!

Congrats brother, welcome to the club! I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again: THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR THE SQUAT!

 

[cdoubleu]

Squats are one of those things that are hard to do in front of a bunch of people if you suck at them or are weak at them. I was one of those guys skipping leg day because of it. I finally got over myself and said no more skipped leg days and i have truely benifeted.

 

[Kinikuman]

Squats are one of those things that are hard to do in front of a bunch of people if you suck at them or are weak at them. I was one of those guys skipping leg day because of it. I finally got over myself and said no more skipped leg days and i have truely benifeted.

When I started my current comeback, now in my late 40s, my 10 rep max on the Squat was a pair of 25s added to the bar. No joke. Chicks half my body-weight were squatting me under the table. It just motivated me more. That was six months ago - and now most guys in the gym don't wanna squat with me. There are a few who can stack more plates than me and grind out reps just short of parallel but not many are willing to down into the hole with me with any significant weight across their shoulders. The Squat is like anything else: you have to practice it a lot to do it well. As many here have stated, it is the King of exercises. I firmly believe that if young Americans learned the squat as their first and favorite lift rather than the bench press or the curl that we would retake our rightful place at the top of the world's strength athletes...

 

[Docd187123]

When I started my current comeback, now in my late 40s, my 10 rep max on the Squat was a pair of 25s added to the bar. No joke. Chicks half my body-weight were squatting me under the table. It just motivated me more. That was six months ago - and now most guys in the gym don't wanna squat with me. There are a few who can stack more plates than me and grind out reps just short of parallel but not many are willing to down into the hole with me with any significant weight across their shoulders. The Squat is like anything else: you have to practice it a lot to do it well. As many here have stated, it is the King of exercises. I firmly believe that if young Americans learned the squat as their first and favorite lift rather than the bench press or the curl that we would retake our rightful place at the top of the world's strength athletes...

Congrats on the progress.

Maybe this would belong in it's own thread but I too have some ideas why Americans aren't atop the strength world as some other parts of the world are. It is an interesting topic to talk about.

 

[weighted chinup]

Maybe this would belong in it's own thread but I too have some ideas why Americans aren't atop the strength world as some other parts of the world are. It is an interesting topic to talk about.

Have you had a chance to read Practical Programming for Strength Training?

Rippetoe talks about this in one of the early chapters 'Periodization and the American Kid'.

'U.S Kids play sports to get in shape, while kids in Soviet-type systems get in shape to play sports'.
​

Very interesting, and I think he is on point when he discusses why there is such a difference in strength.

 

[Docd187123]

Have you had a chance to read Practical Programming for Strength Training?

Rippetoe talks about this in one of the early chapters 'Periodization and the American Kid'.

'U.S Kids play sports to get in shape, while kids in Soviet-type systems get in shape to play sports'.
​

Very interesting, and I think he is on point when he discusses why there is such a difference in strength.

I have read it at least 4x through and currently going back over it as I've switched to a Texas Method Style of programming. I have it on the kindle app on my phone and iPad so I can read it at the gym when I need a question answered. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that book. One of the best lifting books ever written in my opinion. I think there's more to it than just that such as training frequency of the lifts but I didn't want to derail this thread too much lol

 

[mojuice87]

I love squats but my gp to leg workout is legs press. Idc what anyone says. Leg press will build some nice legs.

 

[Ozzy619]

Fukena! I've always been a leg press guy and as I stated above, this article convinced me to do squats...no matter how awkward they feel. I've been going ass to grass so deep, even the regular squatters mention it (i even tore the ass out on my shorts last week) I've been on the smith up until this week and graduated up to just me and the bar this last Tuesday. I've always had pretty thick legs and do 720 on the leg press knee to chest. On the smith machine I've been doing 225 and Tuesday I dropped down to 135 while I improve my form. I have to say, even with the lighter weight, my legs have exploded! To everyone who does presses...at least you are doing legs. But move to squats. I'm sold after 5 weeks. Thanks guys!

My wife gets pissed with how many work pants blow outs I have. Im averaging a pair of jeans a month. As far as squats, I had to go a lot lighter to get better form for going lower and have seen a huge improvement.

 

[A-a-Ron]

My wife gets pissed with how many work pants blow outs I have. Im averaging a pair of jeans a month. As far as squats, I had to go a lot lighter to get better form for going lower and have seen a huge improvement.

I'm just glad I had black on under my shorts so I could finish my workout. Only a few people saw and laughed. But you know you are doing them right when you tip the seams.

 

[Dr JIM]

While I absolutely agree the squat is probably the BEST compound exercise overall, using a near perfect form is the key to enhancing muscular development while preventing MS injuries

Consequently I would not recommend an "ass to grass" extreme many are referring to, in all BUT the most experienced BB!

From an anatomical perspective femur displacement below 90 degrees (+ or - 10 degrees) movement places undue stress on the menisci with a disproportionate improvement on muscular development.

Oh I know some swear by such extremes maneuvers but hyperextension or flexion of essentially any joint may actually weaken joint integrity bc the peri-articular structures (tendons, ligaments, fascia) are what's being "stretched".

So when do these injuries occur? Once a joints ROM limits have been reached (when joint stressors have peaked) and actin and myosin overlap are minimal, the lifter realizing he cant's make the lift uses "compensatory" body mechanics and shifts the weight to one side, placing severe stress on an isolated portion of a specific joint. The end result, something "gives".

Now don't get me wrong mates, even though A-G squats can indeed be beneficial, the risk benefit ratio increases so remarkably that form, technique, and overall body mechanics become even more important to diminish the frequency of injuries.

Finally, if your the type of mate that has "bad knees' it goes wo saying any squat below horizontal is asking for trouble, IME

 

[Mayne]

Olympic lifting shoes are key for my ATG, a lot of us simply have not been built in the way an ATG requires, I can front squat with flat shoes but ATG high bar or what I believe is called an oly not really, my body cannot be kept upright, I can feel the weight like shifting from my heels to my toes unless I am in my Romaleos 2. Also hack squats are extremely weird on my knees because the platform in our gym is not adjustable every occasion I put heavy weight my heels get raised...

 

[A-a-Ron]

While I absolutely agree the squat is probably the BEST compound exercise overall, using a near perfect form is the key to enhancing muscular development while preventing MS injuries

Consequently I would not recommend an "ass to grass" extreme many are referring to, in all BUT the most experienced BB!

From an anatomical perspective femur displacement below 90 degrees (+ or - 10 degrees) movement places undue stress on the menisci with a disproportionate improvement on muscular development.

Oh I know some swear by such extremes maneuvers but hyperextension or flexion of essentially any joint may actually weaken joint integrity bc the peri-articular structures (tendons, ligaments, fascia) are what's being "stretched".

So when do these injuries occur? Once a joints ROM limits have been reached (when joint stressors have peaked) and actin and myosin overlap are minimal, the lifter realizing he cant's make the lift uses "compensatory" body mechanics and shifts the weight to one side, placing severe stress on an isolated portion of a specific joint. The end result, something "gives".

Now don't get me wrong mates, even though A-G squats can indeed be beneficial, the risk benefit ratio increases so remarkably that form, technique, and overall body mechanics become even more important to diminish the frequency of injuries.

Finally, if your the type of mate that has "bad knees' it goes wo saying any squat below horizontal is asking for trouble, IME

Where would you cut suggest cutting off the movement at? I'm working on getting my form down, so it won't be difficult to change my squats up. If there is going too low...then I'm definitely guilty. I know the answer will vary person to person, but would you suggest going to just parallel or maybe a couple inches past? My parallel has my butt 18" off the ground and my ATG is at about 10" (luckily know one caught me in the office measuring).

 

[romaleos]

If you can go all the way down and back up with no pain, then do it that way and only that way. Slow progression with the load, strength comes over a lifetime. It's not a sprint, strength is a marathon. Find a good program and stick to it. When you plateau, change it up. The human body is an amazing thing, you will adapt and progress. But you will also have times when you are stuck, how you deal with those times is what determines the type of person you are. A man or a pussy. Don't be a pussy!

All the stuff about below parallel being bad for you only applies to pre-existing injury and limitations and pussies who are scared to squat.

 

[MoriorInvictus]

I'm surprised I missed this thread for so long.

I love squats! One of my favorite exercises. IME as to ground is only beneficial at certain weights specifically for reasons that Dr.Jim described above. Everyone has different weights that they can move comfortably without jerking their body or using "english" as I like to call it. When preforming deep squats control & form are of the upmost importance. You need to keep your head looking up, chest out and you should be pinching those shoulder blades back. You can then allow yourself to go down and go as low as possible (with proper weight).

Now when I start using heavy weights the as to ground goes out the window. I only focus on breaking parallel and keeping good form. Box squats is good for this because you can set a box that is just below parallel (for you) and then do touch and goes off the box (you don't want to sit & stand!). But when using heavy weight on squats it is easy to get down in the hole on your 4th or 5th rep and realize that you don't have the energy or strength to fire out of the hole. That's when shit can go bad, I've seen guys rock to one side (unintentionally) and end up pulling a muscle. I know a few big powerlifters that always drop into the hole and if they can't fire out of it they just throw the weight back off of their shoulders (really dangerous).

Shoes are actually really important with the squat and IME basketball shoes work the best. They give decent ankle support while providing just enough of a heel to allow you to really push. I've tried squatting with my wrestling shoes (I use them for DL) and I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Kinikuman]

If you can go all the way down and back up with no pain, then do it that way and only that way. Slow progression with the load, strength comes over a lifetime. It's not a sprint, strength is a marathon. Find a good program and stick to it. When you plateau, change it up. The human body is an amazing thing, you will adapt and progress. But you will also have times when you are stuck, how you deal with those times is what determines the type of person you are. A man or a pussy. Don't be a pussy!

All the stuff about below parallel being bad for you only applies to pre-existing injury and limitations and pussies who are scared to squat.

Double what Romaleos said. Toss the ego and get strong. Start with a weight you can handle all the way down with perfect form. Again, the emphasis is 99% on good, correct form that works with your anatomy.

Most people simply do movements with the most weight they can and then wonder why their progress is so inconsistent and injuries so frequent. The smart lifter uses the movement to work the muscles so that he can become stronger at the movement.