Ass to grass vs. Parallel squats

[Secret of Steel]

Weight is the most significant factor when it comes to lifting for all goals. Time under tension won't do anything for you if you're using the bar alone.

I tried saying this on another forum and everyone contradicted it, saying they "grew the most" once they stopped having a routine, worrying about weight, and instead "focusing on the muscle contraction." My thing is this: if you train for strength, you can always train for hypertrophy later with better results than the schmoe who benches 185 year after year and "really feels it"

 

[YelloBoi]

If you tried to squat even 385 in a real rack, the weight would likely crush you. I doubt you'd even want to attempt the squat. There's just no comparison to doing free squats.

EDIT: Just wanted to say I wasn't putting you down. I was stating what I believe to be true about anyone that would transition from smith machine squats to BB squats.

I was thinking that too. I wanna see how much of a difference there is between the squat rack and smith machine.

Heard the other gym might be buying new plates and dumbbells. If they do I probably change memberships and I could find out the difference. Also they have a sauna so that's a plus.

 

[insertnamehere]

I was thinking that too. I wanna see how much of a difference there is between the squat rack and smith machine.

Heard the other gym might be buying new plates and dumbbells. If they do I probably change memberships and I could find out the difference. Also they have a sauna so that's a plus.

Yeah, that would be great if you get a chance to try it out. If you do, let us know what you think.

 

[YelloBoi]

Yeah, that would be great if you get a chance to try it out. If you do, let us know what you think.

Thinking of paying $5 on one of my 2 leg days this week just to use the squat rack, if I do I'll let you know the difference. Right now I can do 3x5 315,325,335 on the smith machine. May bump weights up more as it's getting easy.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Just came to a fantastic realization today. With all my trials and tribulations I've been having with squats. Keeping my back from rounding going A2G and aggravating a degrading lower back I've found a simple solution.

Low bar squats.

I'm still perfecting it. Today was my first day. I squat with no pain today. Not much seizing in my lower back and I moved my usual weight with ease and drive thru my glutes.

Been watching some rippetoe vids and got the jist of the form. Pretty good so far. I have a long torso so with my high bar squat I typically utilize it has a tendency to fold me in half as I approach my max. The low bar position seems to leverage it out and keep the weight over my knees. Looks like I won't be having problems with 455 any more. I've been crushed the last 3x I've attempted it

 

[Secret of Steel]

Just came to a fantastic realization today. With all my trials and tribulations I've been having with squats. Keeping my back from rounding going A2G and aggravating a degrading lower back I've found a simple solution.

Low bar squats.

I'm still perfecting it. Today was my first day. I squat with no pain today. Not much seizing in my lower back and I moved my usual weight with ease and drive thru my glutes.

Been watching some rippetoe vids and got the jist of the form. Pretty good so far. I have a long torso so with my high bar squat I typically utilize it has a tendency to fold me in half as I approach my max. The low bar position seems to leverage it out and keep the weight over my knees. Looks like I won't be having problems with 455 any more. I've been crushed the last 3x I've attempted it

Yeah, going any more than just below parallel with a low bar squat will not work out well. My only thing with these, is that there seems to be a major shift in stimulation to the glutes and back. But Rip is the man. Ironically, his advice on barbell curls and skullcrushers is the one thing I've never deviated from since I read SS many years ago. And his deadlift instruction is the most perfect I've ever seen.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Soooo....
I'm a bit more than annoyed. Annoyed and fucking confused. After alot of VA visits with the doc and multiple chiropractor visits I was afforded more insight on to the condition of my lower back. Just recently came off a 6 week no leg training break to try and let everything heal up and eliminate overuse as an issue.

Hit up squats today on my first day back to leg training. Real light and easy.
I warm up with bar weight squats and unweighted good mornings, hip rolls and lunging stretches in an effort to open my hips and get ready for a serious set as I always do.

Nothing special 225x10, 225x10, 225x10. Not even close to what I can really do. All perfect A2G with 1 second pause in down position. Focusing on driving out with my ass. Feels great first 2 sets. Then bam 3rd set and that familiar extreme seizing feeling. That's the best way to describe it. If I ignore it I eventually drop to my knees with the inability to move or get back up. Knowing better I went to leg ext to try and sub the rest of my planned work there. After more crippling pain I just threw in the towel again. FUCK....spent the next 45 minutes laying down to find some sort of comfort.

Here in lies the problem. I love squats. And more often than not I pull the sledge hammer out of my choices of tools in my bag. It's my favorite tool. It accomplishes so much. Except now I feel hard work and determination aren't enough and squats must go. I hate to be that fucking guy but God damn I can't keep up with this pain. It seems to be anything that compresses my lower back that causes it. I tried hyper extensions to strengthen the lumbar but that's worse.

How do guys work around these issues and still build champion quality legs?
@tileguy123 , @lucabratzi @Docd187123

 

[Docd187123]

Soooo....
I'm a bit more than annoyed. Annoyed and fucking confused. After alot of VA visits with the doc and multiple chiropractor visits I was afforded more insight on to the condition of my lower back. Just recently came off a 6 week no leg training break to try and let everything heal up and eliminate overuse as an issue.

Hit up squats today on my first day back to leg training. Real light and easy.
I warm up with bar weight squats and unweighted good mornings, hip rolls and lunging stretches in an effort to open my hips and get ready for a serious set as I always do.

Nothing special 225x10, 225x10, 225x10. Not even close to what I can really do. All perfect A2G with 1 second pause in down position. Focusing on driving out with my ass. Feels great first 2 sets. Then bam 3rd set and that familiar extreme seizing feeling. That's the best way to describe it. If I ignore it I eventually drop to my knees with the inability to move or get back up. Knowing better I went to leg ext to try and sub the rest of my planned work there. After more crippling pain I just threw in the towel again. FUCK....spent the next 45 minutes laying down to find some sort of comfort.

Here in lies the problem. I love squats. And more often than not I pull the sledge hammer out of my choices of tools in my bag. It's my favorite tool. It accomplishes so much. Except now I feel hard work and determination aren't enough and squats must go. I hate to be that fucking guy but God damn I can't keep up with this pain. It seems to be anything that compresses my lower back that causes it. I tried hyper extensions to strengthen the lumbar but that's worse.

How do guys work around these issues and still build champion quality legs?
@tileguy123 , @lucabratzi @Docd187123

Don't lose hope as it might be possible for you to keep squatting Trukker. I'm going to get back to you with more on this later but let me ask a few questions first:

1) do you have an actual diagnosis as to what's wrong with your back? Not a guess, but has a diagnosis been made? Spine, disk, vertebrae, muscular, etc???

2) have you had any MRIs or X-rays done?

3) describe the pain in exacting detail. Be thorough. Where is it exactly, how bad is it on a scale 1-10, what aggravates besides squats? Where does it hurt the most in the squat ROM?

4) would you be willing to PM me a video of you squatting so I can look at your form?

I believe my coach figured out what was going on with my back and it's an extremely common issue for ppl who sit a lot while at work (assuming you sit in the cab for long long periods of time?). Some of what you said rings home with me and my back so if it's the same thing I got just the stuff for you to help it and if it's soemthing different we can most likely work around it and treat it to keep you squatting pain free.

 

[theprodgicalson]

We're you using a belt @gr8whitetrukker ?

Ice and Ibuprofen helps a lot. Don't lose hope man. If the determination is there, you'll get through this. Did the Dr. clear you to lift again?

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Don't lose hope as it might be possible for you to keep squatting Trukker. I'm going to get back to you with more on this later but let me ask a few questions first:

1) do you have an actual diagnosis as to what's wrong with your back? Not a guess, but has a diagnosis been made? Spine, disk, vertebrae, muscular, etc???

2) have you had any MRIs or X-rays done?

3) describe the pain in exacting detail. Be thorough. Where is it exactly, how bad is it on a scale 1-10, what aggravates besides squats? Where does it hurt the most in the squat ROM?

4) would you be willing to PM me a video of you squatting so I can look at your form?

I believe my coach figured out what was going on with my back and it's an extremely common issue for ppl who sit a lot while at work (assuming you sit in the cab for long long periods of time?). Some of what you said rings home with me and my back so if it's the same thing I got just the stuff for you to help it and if it's soemthing different we can most likely work around it and treat it to keep you squatting pain free.

1&2) disc issue yes x-rays have been done. Sorry I don't like to go in to too much depth here as it could reveal more about my identity and my service
3) pain comes from volume not weight. I've had 455 and 225 on my back it all does the same thing. Cause pain. It feels as if an engine is running with out oil in effect seizing. Eventually if I push thru the pain I go numb and fall over. Like I been shot with a 7.62. I tried front squats with the same result. Even leg presses down in a fully compressed fashion. I don't do leg presses half way. It seems to be my lower back is massively over compensating. Needless to say I don't do deadlifts any more. Not since senior yr high school. That would destroy me
4)yes I have videos but nothing recent

Thx for the help!

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

We're you using a belt @gr8whitetrukker ?

Ice and Ibuprofen helps a lot. Don't lose hope man. If the determination is there, you'll get through this. Did the Dr. clear you to lift again?

Ive never met a Dr that would clear any body to squat. From all the opinions I get they view it as back destruction. He said other than obvious damage I'm otherwise very healthy. Take that for what it's worth right?

Oh and I have a belt. I don't use it

 

[crossfitisgay]

seems like a belt would help A LOT however it has its trade offs

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

seems like a belt would help A LOT however it has its trade offs

The belt has always been used traditionally to have the abs some thing to push against on heavy squats and deads. Keeping pressure. Not necessarily for lower back protection

 

[crossfitisgay]

The belt has always been used traditionally to have the abs some thing to push against on heavy squats and deads. Keeping pressure. Not necessarily for lower back protection

The two are correlated, no? would help take some strain off of the lower back (back problems since 15yo, degenerated disk l5 lumbar) IME stregnthening core and using a belt are the only ways to go even though i also hardly use it lately

 

[Docd187123]

1&2) disc issue yes x-rays have been done. Sorry I don't like to go in to too much depth here as it could reveal more about my identity and my service
3) pain comes from volume not weight. I've had 455 and 225 on my back it all does the same thing. Cause pain. It feels as if an engine is running with out oil in effect seizing. Eventually if I push thru the pain I go numb and fall over. Like I been shot with a 7.62. I tried front squats with the same result. Even leg presses down in a fully compressed fashion. I don't do leg presses half way. It seems to be my lower back is massively over compensating. Needless to say I don't do deadlifts any more. Not since senior yr high school. That would destroy me
4)yes I have videos but nothing recent

Thx for the help!

Whenever you can, provided you're comfortable with it, PM me the video or YouTube link to it or something and I'll take a peak.

To me it sounds like you need to:

1) try inversion therapy, either with an inversion table or with a heavy resistance band choked off on a power rack. I can send vids on how to do it and a band will only set you back $50 vs a table ~125$. This will decompress your spine and discs, loosen your hips and pelvis and other areas in the region.

2) work on your mobility and rehab/prehab stuff. I can send links to some very good stretches to help accomplish this.

3) you need to stop going ass to grass on squats until your mobility improves if it does enough to do them ass to grass. Some people will just not be able to. The lower you go last parallel the more your hamstrings pull downwards on the pelvis.this will exacerbate back issues a lot. An easy test is to see if you get butt wink at the bottom of your squat. If yes, go to parallel and stop.

4) start adding in box squats to help cut your depth at parallel and not lower and it should also help take the stress off your back enough to keep squatting with less issues.

Few more ideas I'll get to you on.

 

[Docd187123]

The belt has always been used traditionally to have the abs some thing to push against on heavy squats and deads. Keeping pressure. Not necessarily for lower back protection

100% true here BUTTTTTTT when your abs have something to contract against, they can contract stronger. Doing that takes some of the pressure off the low back as it has to do less work and the abs can take up the slack n

 

[crossfitisgay]

100% true here BUTTTTTTT when your abs have something to contract against, they can contract stronger. Doing that takes some of the pressure off the low back as it has to do less work and the abs can take up the slack n

I was hoping someone that doesn't sound like an idiot, as in my response, would provide detail and confirm that belts indirectly help the lumbar. lol

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Whenever you can, provided you're comfortable with it, PM me the video or YouTube link to it or something and I'll take a peak.

To me it sounds like you need to:

1) try inversion therapy, either with an inversion table or with a heavy resistance band choked off on a power rack. I can send vids on how to do it and a band will only set you back $50 vs a table ~125$. This will decompress your spine and discs, loosen your hips and pelvis and other areas in the region.

2) work on your mobility and rehab/prehab stuff. I can send links to some very good stretches to help accomplish this.

3) you need to stop going ass to grass on squats until your mobility improves if it does enough to do them ass to grass. Some people will just not be able to. The lower you go last parallel the more your hamstrings pull downwards on the pelvis.this will exacerbate back issues a lot. An easy test is to see if you get butt wink at the bottom of your squat. If yes, go to parallel and stop.

4) start adding in box squats to help cut your depth at parallel and not lower and it should also help take the stress off your back enough to keep squatting with less issues.

Few more ideas I'll get to you on.

I'll take all the help I can get. Please, send links for stretches or anything else. I'm currently working on trying to figure out how to upload an older squat vid. I'll get it sooner or later.

Another thing, I've never understood butt wink. I have my idea of what your talking about but idk

And yes I think parallel will have to do from here on out
I really don't want to give up them squats

 

[MindlessWork]

Foam roller help, trukker?

 

[Switcher]

http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/radiofrequency-ablation

VA does them if you have access to a hospital and not just a clinic.