Assorted thoughts and questions; progress report

[infoseeker]

I'm sure some of you remember my husband (mrw2k)'s case. I don't read a lot here, but I read here and there and Megazoid's recent post prompted me to check in with some points to ponder. THe hub knows I type here about him and has posted and read some, but frankly, he just does not particularly enjoy reading about you guys and your dingdongs and thus hardly reads here. No offense, of course - it's just a guy thing, I guess. He's just busy doing other comptuer-nerd type things.

So he's on 10mg per day of Testim; (now, I'm not trying to point anyone out for predicting incorrectly, just checking in with progress) - pmgamer, you said you thought his T level would be in the 600s by now (I thought you'd be right!) after it was 450 or so three months ago, but it's in the low 400s, and his urologist said that's fine. No, he's not getting the full rundown of tests, that's not going to happen (not saying I don't agree with you guys, it's just the type of doctor we have right now and we're not going to order extra tests.) Who knows what his level was in the AM - he got by the lab when he could which was about 1PM. So I guess theoretically it could be in the 600s at other times of day.

Byetta (primarily) is bringing his blood sugar down to completely normal, and while he has not lost much in the way of actual pounds, he appears to have lost fat and possibly gained muscle due to the Byetta and possibly the Testim (didn't see this effect with just testosterone supplementation, or maybe it was just slow to set in.) It's pretty notable - he can now feel ribs; he just has a different shape now, with an inverted-triangle-shape torso from the back - you know, broad shoulders and muscled back with smaller waist - I guess he was always that way and always well-muscled but he just had a thicker fat covering. He's always been the kind of guy (and this is pure genetics) who could pick up a little free weight and pop out even more muscles right away - and this was even when his T was 200, so go figure.

HIs TSH was elevated (about 4 or 5, nothing outrageous like 10 or something) and we're hoping that'll fall into line as his blood sugar stays in line and his body fat decreases. He's now on a campaign to lose some more weight before his 46th birthday in one month. Shooting for under 200 lbs. He hardly looks like a "fat guy" anymore. If he sucks in the gut he does not even look fat. (He basically has a football-player physique - you know, or like a big, mean bouncer. Not mean, though! Although he can look it when he tries.) People are starting to say "why?" when he says he's trying to lose weight.

His main concern now is the Peyronie's which *appeared* to begin about 2 months after some very sudden onset ED appeared. I put that in asterisks because I have no idea how this affliction starts, and it seems that even urologists do not know. Does anyone know if the inflammation / injury / pre-scar tissue that characterizes Peyronie's appears because of ED and injuries associated with that, or if ED results from Peyronie's? Like I said, frustrating, but I don't think the doctor knows. (any doctors, please chime in with your opinion.) He's on colchicine, purpose of which is to prevent tissue from calcifying (which would then not be reversible) and the doctor seems pleased that it was caught before that point and may even be regressing (that's the goal of treatment.) By the way, I nagged him to ask the doctor at last visit - why would ED appear so suddenly, as in: not there at all one day and a big problem within a span of days or weeks, and a persistent problem? The dr. said that's unfortunately how it often happens. This is weird to me... you'd think a problem stemming from a chronic process would have a gradual onset, but whatever.

Megazoid mentioned not being able to afford viagra-type drugs for every um... instance. True - the stuff is expensive. I read with interest pmgamer's advice to someone else to use cialis and use it every 72 hours and within 4 months improvement would be seen. Well, the hub was first given Cialis and he felt that the results were not very good and certainly didn't last 72 hours, maybe just 6 or so (rapid dropoff in concentration after that was enough to affect him negatively). The doctor clued him in that viagra is really much better for his situation and he did feel that it worked great, and he takes it whether he intends to really "use it" or not, because supposedly it's good for the areas's circulation and all, but cialis would make sense, in my mind, because it lasts longer (whether or not giving the exact desired effect.)

But what would you guys think if someone said they got better erections WITHOUT any of those drugs? This is partly what has made me (at times) wonder if (at least part of) his problem is emotionally-based, because he's saying now that when he's taken NO med, his erections are better. While taking the med (I think viagra's the only one he's taken in a while) erections are usable but abnormal (and possibly this has to do with the Peyronie's), as in: almost painful, and more "inflated" in one spot than others - just not normal.

I wonder if his observation that erections are better and more "normal" without meds has to do with his T level being in the 400s or so now. (and I wonder if that observation is a good sign, too - any insight?? I'm not a guy but logic would tell me that just because some people need or benefit from meds that facilitate erection does not mean that they would benefit everyone who might not need them.) 400s doesn't sound high, but it's better than the pre-treatment 200. By the way, no overt signs of any estrogen problems. All due respect but I'm not convinced that every man has high E just because he's using some Testim. As far as I understand the symptoms of high E, I don't think he has any of them.

Any comments or thoughts? Thanks in advance.
*edited to correct typos - spelled colchicine wrong first time

 

[pmgamer18]

He sounds like he is doing good. Once we are on TRT it does not matter what time we do the Blood work because the levels are not from his testis amymore. So even if he did the blood test first thing in the morning they could be lower. It sounds like he put the gel on in the morning and did the test a 1pm. So if this is what he did then his levels are higher for the first 4 hrs after putting on the gel. Most do there blood work first thing in the morning then after this put the gel on. This shows there lowest levels.

As for doing Cialis every 72 hrs. this works after you have been on it this way for about 1 to 2 weeks then you can have sex and not worry about waiting for a pill to work.

 

[plymouth city]

Peyronies disease is 99 percent of the time a gradual process - and a majority of the time it is from masterbation (not implying masterbation is bad, one must be carefull).

There is a great thread over at another board about it - I will post a link, if that is not allowed just edits mods and I will PM it to her - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/61621-dr-john-peyronies.html

Check out my various replies to the thread.

The bodies natural healing process coupled with non invasive medical attention is the best way to combat this issue. Do a google search as well. Many, many men as they age are experiencing this problem, especially in the USA were most men are circumcised.

 

[infoseeker]

Thanks; I read the thread. I don't know why those guys are giggling about it but I guess it's their right; I can be pretty immature but geez... I thought it was common knowledge that plenty have some sort of curve or bend. (bend being Peyronie's - curve usually just being normal.)

All right, I don't think it matters differentiating between with partner or without... as I understand it (and this would explain the blood-pressure medication connection, as we all know BP meds can cause some ED), having sex with the penis less than fully erect leaves it vulnerable to injury, and this is what causes scar tissue to begin to form. Either one trauma that was possibly unnoticed at the time or repeated "abuse." I guess I didn't learn more than I already knew, but I thought some doctor or another, who might know more than the hub's doctor, might know which came first - the chicken or the egg.

Phil, do you think that cialis regimin would work even if it has not worked short-term for him? I mean, he considered the results barely better than baseline and certainly not lasting for days as this med is promoted to work. And I know that he even tried taking them once per day, and still no improvement. I guess he's considering going on that for a once-every-three-days dosage if there's really a chance it'll mean long-term improvement (you can see how he's wary of that since it didn't bring him much short-term improvement.)

 

[pmgamer18]

What dose did he try my Dr. put me on 20 mgs. and said to take it every 72 hrs. He said doing this will keep morning wood going and this is healthy for the penis making blood go in and out so the vessels stay clean. Also if keeps ones BP down and you doing feel the sides like you do if you just take it for sex. The pill is said to work for 48 hrs but when you take it every 72 hr. it works all the time. Just need to give it a week or so.

 

[infoseeker]

The highest does that is standardly prescribed.

I think I probably will not post here again. Nothing to do with any of you guys. I think I'm just giving up. I just realized that all of this is a moot point becuase the same way this has unfolded for the umpteenth time over the last year (and even before that) I have to face the fact that no matter what is done, no matter what medication is added or how many arguments we have over it, the guy simply does not want to have sex with me. Now, he does act like he does, and acts like he loves it, but if I don't put the subject in his face, a week goes by, two weeks go by, at times three or four or more weeks have gone by. Each time I've been promised it won't happen again. I realize no one here cares and no one needs to hear this, but since I'm the lone female voice here (for now) I guess in case some of you don't know this and it might be useful in your lives at some point, nothing makes a woman feel more rejected. (except maybe in the case of those women who don't care about sex - and I understand there are plenty of them and I am sorry for anyone married to one of those. But they're not me.) I think I've been patient as long as I can and and I don't know how long I can keep caring.

Once I tried to get you guys to explain, if you can, what "libido" even means, and by this I mean what is the difference between getting your organs to work and actually wanting to have sex? I assumed there was a real difference, althought it's easy to see how one could negatively affect the other. There was no clear answer. I know some of you definitely make a distinction, but many times it seems to be presented in this simplistic way: Get your dick to work and naturally the first thing you'll do is go at it. It's not that simple, though, obviously. And I'm sick and tired of trying to tease out the difference.

I've been told everything in the book, after the initial denial that there is any problem: "I have no libido." "I have almost no libido." "I have plenty of libido but can't get things to work right." Finally, last time, I thought he was finally honest with me (and himself) when he said, "I do have libido but have held back for way too long due to fear of being humiliated by not getting anything to work right. I am sorry, this was completely wrong to neglect you in this manner." I thought we ironed out those problems. NOPE - back to square one: If I say nothing, and do nothing, then NOTHING happens. This guy's sex drive could be toppled over with a feather. (making me wonder if he even has as sex drive or is simply trying to keep me happy now and then.) Yeah, I know.. maybe my role is to do more than nothing. Yet, from my viewpoint, it's all up to me. Or at least, if I wait... nothing happens... a big, fat nothing. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying I should do "nothing." I'm used to doing a lot more than nothing. But frankly, most women do not want to continually be the aggressor, the seductress, the one who "makes things happen." They don't like the creeping suspicion or the outright observation through trial and error that if they don't at least make obvious overtures to start things, just about every time, nothing will get started and the relationship will remain nearly sexless. All right, I know this is not a social problems forum. I'm just so ****ing sick of it. I just had to air these concerns. You know, we've run the gamut of thinking it's this physical problem or that physical problem, or that this or that will correct things, or maybe things are getting better (nope, must have just been a placebo effect, back to zero *apparent* interest - he has tried to convince me that he has interest but something is interfering with that interest, but I'm not buying it anymore, what is apparent is most often what's true) and I just naturally keep coming back to blaming myself. No one except the most conceited people are totally confident in their appearance or desirabily, so I keep thinking it's me: I'm old, I am not perfect, I don't look like a magazine model, yet the reality is, I'm 41, look approx. 28, have a figure better than 98% of the women mostly because I am not fat and I'm tall (in other words, I sort of do resemble a model!) and I'm said to look "hot" by both the husband and some others. In fact, he says so all day long, grabs my ass constantly, makes overtures that are hollow and go nowhere (I don't believe he's "acting," either), and I'm so tired of it. If anyone has any real advice (and please spare me the "maybe he's gay" or "maybe you're just a hag" jokes), go for it. I'm starting to think he appreciates a hot chick just like the next guy does, but just naturally has a low-medium sex drive that is just getting lower over time and with familiarity and it doesn't matter if he ever gets his johnson fixed, the whole sex life is just doomed. I think he'd rather find good prices on electronics or music equipment. Good think we like each other quite a bit, so we can grow old together in our brother/sister relationship that's a little perverted as he loves to grab my ass and other parts and go on and on about how "hot" I am and never follow up.

I once posted about this on another board and was eventually ridiculed (by one woman who doesn't like and has never liked sex and one man whose wife never gives him any, therefore he's constantly bitter) and told that maybe I should accept it that people just get old and don't always care about sex anymore, especially those who were never total horndogs in the first place. I'm beginning to think that could be true. There's been so much mental energy wasted in our marriage on this topic, and I see plenty of energy expended here (maybe more on the physical side of things, which is understandable) but when it comes to what I think of as "libido," maybe they're right: Maybe people just get old and don't like it the same way they used to and they should just pick up other hobbies and realize their heyday is over with, angry spouse or not. The hub has gone to doctors saying, "My wife is going to leave me any day now, please help" (not true, by the way) and he's just handed bottles of cialis or viagra. When he tells them the libido is just still not there (he takes the stuff and half the time does not even attempt to "use" it), they just shrug and say, "sorry, no clue," as if that part of the puzzle is his problem. Maybe we're all making it more complicated than it is. Maybe there is no chemical answer.

Pardon my bitterness, I just don't like feeling like Mrs. Roper. And I don't see any end in sight to this "problem." I'm just starting to think it's not a "problem," but rather THE WAY IT JUST ****-ING IS.

 

[Megazoid]

Infoeseeker, i have spoken to you and your husband and you are both beautiful and caring people. I cannot imagine your husband not "wanting" you in any sense of the word and simply believe he is like me with a "bit" of a libido but not much. I fully (and i truelly mean this - even if it's just text on a screen) that i DO symphazie with you and your situation. You and your husband are in a dark place right now, like most of the guy's here on the forum. This illness strips you of almost everything and leaves you with nothing. I have never felt so alone or in the dark since getting this, it's difficult to cope with day in and day out.

Your husband has had a hell of allot to deal with too. First all the low t symptoms (which causes low libido among all the other nasty things), the lifestyle changes and the peyronies (Which could be the worst illness ever), he's probably over worried and stressed (but most likely hiding it). This illness has literally kept me awake scared at night due to the side-effects and the way it has made me feel. It's really tough to deal with and i have forced myself to keep a distance between me and my girlfriend in the hope of findings answer on how to treat this before making any sexual moves. The chance of loosing an erection half way through or not satisfying her fully is my worst fear.

The chances are your husband (like me) isn't responding well to the gel's. I've been told that body builders when on cycles they are "horny" all the time and have a really high libido, for whatever reason. I used to have this myself (i am only 24) but i literally lost the energy and want to look at women anymore. I sometimes never even felt like a man and i wouldn't put my girlfriend (or any girl in fact) through that. I literally developed complete ED, was very effecting for me and any confidence i had (which was little to start with).

You're husband is probably putting his mind on other thing's (hobbies and such like) in the hope of recovering his libido back to normal and dosen't want to loose you. The little ass touches and thing's are just way's of saying he cares. Without being too personal, there is more to libido than just intercourse/pentration, maybe you could try different sexual practices to lower the stress on him (oral, teasing, etc). Sometimes focusing so much on sex will be putting stress on him to perform and trust me when i say this, he WILL be scared. He won't be confident because of the testosterone symptoms and peyronies.

I personally don't think it's anything with you as a women or how beautiful you are,i seen your photo and you do look good, really good infact! I think your husband is probably just as stressed as you are and maybe scared of loosing you because of these problems. Allot will be going through his mind right now.

I personally would miss the female opinion on this board if you left, i guess everything is just getting to you (as i can fully understand) but you have to stay strong like your husband is.

What is his HRT routine like? I personally think he might respond better to injections (which i am on myself). Has he considered using HCG as a way of bringing up natural t levels? assuming his testicles are capable of producing.

 

[infoseeker]

Thanks; I appreceiate your reply. As for all the things I could do different and all the understanding I'm supposed to have - well, I do understand, and he has verbalized his fears. And I have done plenty, but women are going to give up really soon and stop doing anything if a guy leaves it totally up to her to start things. He doesn't start anything because... this is my gut feeling after living with him a bunch of years - he likes it but not that much. The way I might like a particular food from a particular store and if someone put it right in front of me I'd eat it and talk about how much I love it, but I never think of it enough to go out and actually buy it; it's just not that important to me. The fact is that he's completely capable of "performing" (sounds terrible) and I don't know when he's had one of those dreaded episodes, like you described, of losing erection, etc. I thought he got a handle on not being afraid of that. It just seems that every time we overcome one problem, the same old problem keeps coming back: He simply does not appear interested. There's no way to put a positive spin on that. Last night I know he took something because he chatted about this and that with his stuffy nose, and then went to sleep. I think he values my friendship, which is flattering, but... And I've heard "money problems" (solved), "no job" (solved, and the job's an excellent one), "not enough sleep" (we get the same amount of sleep and I'm OK.)

I hate to tell you this, but putting distance between you and a girlfriend is most likely going to be interpreted by her as a freeze-out. Your best chance is to fully explain any distance because thinking she won't notice or interpret your ams-length approach is likely to backfire. My husband said he was shutting me out in the same manner and won't do that anymore (this was a promise made about about 10 episodes ago wherein he paid attention for a few days and then ignored for weeks at a stretch till I piped up unhappily again), but what I see is just lack of interest. I really think he's capable of keeping his promises and even enjoying himself but he's just lazy in this area or nearly completely uninterested (like you said, a "bit" of a libido.) It's obviously not a priority to him. There's no way to make that appealing to a partner.

He's not going to do anything outside of the standard doctor-office Rx, and I'm guessing they're not going to prescribe anything other than T gel. His doctor feels that 400-something T level is fine, and like I said, they just shrug and act like it's outside of their department if everything appears physically normal and labs look OK but the libido is lagging.

And it makes me feel like crap to have no nag and ask him to keep promises. That is not the stuff of female self-esteem. I guess it's not the stuff of anyone's self-esteem, but it's just part of nature that females do not want to feel like they're pursuing, harrassing and coercing. I mean, I don't want to take some kind of prima donna stance and act like I deserve everything handed to me on a silver platter - on the contrary, I think I'm willing to meet him halfway or more - but it's like the friend who won't call you unless you call him, won't go anywhere unless you go pick him up... you know what I mean. Someone said he was able to get into things only if his GF approached him. WARNING to all men: If you ONLY respond and never or rarely do the approaching, whether or not things work right or not, it may be the death knell for your relationship (at least your sexual relationship.) I'm guessing that may be one of the reasons women buy twin beds and move into their own room, because they can't take the humiliation and sense of not being appreciated anymore. Most women are not going to happily continue being the aggressor and intiator.

Thanks for your kind words. You saw one of my worse photos (in my opinion) of only my face. I'm told I look good but I keep thinking all the other women have it going on and I don't. Even though I'm an intelligent person, there's no way I can convince myself otherwise - it's just my reptilian brain, I guess, doing the thinking. It's been hard-wired in for eons, I guess. At least he is nice enough to say it's not me, it's him... I've read forums where this problem is discussed, and you'd be surprised how many similar situations exist where there is no physical problem (at least none known about) and the guys tell their women, "it's because you're too fat" or that they don't clean the house well enough or whatever... I'm sure in some cases there are real problems there that most likely are far beyond the scope here and the extra fat is a red herring, etc.

Oh well, at least soon enough I'll be one of those old menopausal ladies who only think about crafts and shopping, and would rather go out to lunch with one another than pay attention to a man. Wouldn't that be classic - if he got himself turned around the same time I join a book club and start getting short, sensible haircuts.

 

[pmgamer18]

Today I am an old man I could not get it up for over 10 yrs. yet I got a pump and pumped it up and put a ring on it to keep it up to take care of my wife. Now my problem is fixed and when I want sex I get this shit go play with your self or quit taking all them drugs and act your age. Well let me tell you I wasted no dam time getting in her face about all the things I did to take care of her when I was sick. I just told her like it is no sex I am gone if you partner thinks they can have there cake and eat it to guess what. You need to make your mind up do you want to live like this for the rest of your life. Hey I love my wife but I love my sex too and at age 63 I am not ready to hang it up. So I told my wife if she has no desire for sex anymore then see a Dr. and find out what is wrong. Why I told her this was because I what to make love to her and if she dose not enjoy it WTF it's not worth it. She seen her Dr. he told her she has gone through the change and some women get like this. I told her this ass hole is usless see a new Dr. she did and he found a problem put her on some DHEA and upped her thyroid meds and in less then 4 weeks she was her old self again. You need to do what is best for you I would not live like this I took care of my wife for 10 yrs. and could not reach an orgasm why because I love her is he loves you he will take care of you. You need to read him the riot act when push comes to shove he will have to make up his mind.

 

[Naturdoc]

Magazoid and pmgamer have given you some good information. Low libido and Peyronies are difficult for a guy to admit and deal with. MAybe look for another doc but your husband does need to want to get better.