Try and get those pre-cycle labs posted. I really think you will need to do another PCT. If you have low test your doc might consider putting you on TRT.
mands
mands
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Axis doesnt restart
- Thread starter OtisDriftwood
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OtisDriftwood
New Member
Labs of apr and may 2014....I think its hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, it feels like hypofisis cant react to testo changes...the axis feedback doesnt work and it could be an hypotalamic issue as well...very difficult diagnosis imho, thats why the specialists I consulted in the past didnt tell me what was the real problem and didnt put me on trt...
I think stimulating hypofisis indirectly with clomid is not the treat in my case...I need something that acts on hypofisis directly, like triptorelin or gonadorelin...plus some hcg to allow nuts to produce testo...clomid will never work on me, never...I might use gonadorelin as PCT in the future after every cycle...if it works...dont know!
I think stimulating hypofisis indirectly with clomid is not the treat in my case...I need something that acts on hypofisis directly, like triptorelin or gonadorelin...plus some hcg to allow nuts to produce testo...clomid will never work on me, never...I might use gonadorelin as PCT in the future after every cycle...if it works...dont know!
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OtisDriftwood
New Member
what do you think bout my thoughts??
do those who are on trt continue to do cycles??
The specialist didn't tell you anything because 9 out of 10 don't have a clue. Well maybe not that bad.
Yes I am on TRT and I continue to run cycles. Blast and Cruise is the game these days.
mands
Yes I am on TRT and I continue to run cycles. Blast and Cruise is the game these days.
mands
OtisDriftwood
New Member
I can also run a new cycle right now, without a second pct and after it use gonadorelin as PCT program, without clomid...what do you think.???
if I can ask you, why are you on TRT? did u shut down your axis due to juice or due to any onther issues like me???
if I can ask you, why are you on TRT? did u shut down your axis due to juice or due to any onther issues like me???
I had low test in my 30's. I did cycles before that but always took time off as much as I was on. And I also stopped working out for around 2 years.
Low T seems to run in my family. Father had it and two brothers have it.
mands
Low T seems to run in my family. Father had it and two brothers have it.
mands
Sworder
Member
Mands is right about starting your PCT way too early. Nandrolone decanoate stays in your system for a long time.
If I were you I would get labs now, start using HCG and get labs done while on the hCG to make sure your testicles work. After you know your testicles are capable of producing testosterone then you can start the Nolva/Clomid treatment.
If your testes aren't capable of producing testosterone that will suck..
But if you can get your tT up to about 600ish while on the hCG and then proceed to work on your LH/FSH with the SERMs that is very good news. If the SERM treatment doesn't work for whatever reason I would honestly try SERMs for a little longer time.
Triptorelin should be used as a last resort, I have actually a person who used it and it worked for him. However, do not resort to this drug as a first hand choice to increase FSH/LH.
Just my 2 cents have nothing else to add.
If I were you I would get labs now, start using HCG and get labs done while on the hCG to make sure your testicles work. After you know your testicles are capable of producing testosterone then you can start the Nolva/Clomid treatment.
If your testes aren't capable of producing testosterone that will suck..
But if you can get your tT up to about 600ish while on the hCG and then proceed to work on your LH/FSH with the SERMs that is very good news. If the SERM treatment doesn't work for whatever reason I would honestly try SERMs for a little longer time.
Triptorelin should be used as a last resort, I have actually a person who used it and it worked for him. However, do not resort to this drug as a first hand choice to increase FSH/LH.
Just my 2 cents have nothing else to add.
OtisDriftwood
New Member
according to my previous axis status, I think clomid is not effective to kick-start hypofisis, because it acts on axis indirectly...I need something that stimulate hypofisis directly, like GNRH...I did 6 weeks of clomid and didnt work...my axis is very sleeping and clomid won't be enough for it...gnrh is not my first choice, because I've just used the standars serms therapy...that's why!
OtisDriftwood
New Member
How much hCG should I run?? 500 UI ed for 1 month or more??? dont want to increase too much estro....
Sworder
Member
I am sorry, I actually didn't read the entire thread before posting, I gave my "failed pct spiel" without actually reading your entire thread. I am sorry, that was rude and inconsiderate; who knew, actually reading can help you understand a person's situation..
So you got labs in 2014 and they were all low tT, FSH and LH.
Why did you get the labs in the first place? Did you have symptoms which made you think your hormone levels were low? - If yes, when did you start having symptoms of low t?
When did you start the accutane? Are you on any other medications?
So you got labs in 2014 and they were all low tT, FSH and LH.
Why did you get the labs in the first place? Did you have symptoms which made you think your hormone levels were low? - If yes, when did you start having symptoms of low t?
When did you start the accutane? Are you on any other medications?
OtisDriftwood
New Member
I got my first labs in 2010 when I was 21, because I hadn't beard so it sounded strange to me and wanted to dig with some analysis...and came out low testo, under minimal value, but LH and FSH in range, at minimal value but still in range...then, I did some hypofisis stimulating test with gnrh and came out that LH was responder at 15' 30' and 60', but FSH not...I waited till 2014 without any therapy...(except for the beard and lack of strenght I didnt' get any symptoms...sex drive and erection were ok)...in 2014 I decided to check out my hormons again and the situation was the same, pathological testo and low but normal LH and FSH...the second endo told me not to do trt...
I think its a hypogonadotropic hypogonadism or it could be an hypotalamic issue as well...
Now I have symptoms like 0 libido, erectil dysfunction, no morning Woods, depression...the only thing I noticed its the same is strenght during workout, maybe due to new muscle I gained with the aas cycle...I cant stand in this status, I feel depressed and frustrated...cant stand without libido...its horrible...
started accutane on jenuary and Im on the 3rd month right now...60 mg ed...it could have decreased my hormones and could have caused all the symptoms I have, but the hormonal status I have is a fact...low testo like mine is unbearable for a man...
I think its a hypogonadotropic hypogonadism or it could be an hypotalamic issue as well...
Now I have symptoms like 0 libido, erectil dysfunction, no morning Woods, depression...the only thing I noticed its the same is strenght during workout, maybe due to new muscle I gained with the aas cycle...I cant stand in this status, I feel depressed and frustrated...cant stand without libido...its horrible...
started accutane on jenuary and Im on the 3rd month right now...60 mg ed...it could have decreased my hormones and could have caused all the symptoms I have, but the hormonal status I have is a fact...low testo like mine is unbearable for a man...
Sworder
Member
Have you tried hCG alone and gotten a total testosterone lab test on it?
Have you gotten a scan of your hypofisis(pituitary) to make sure there is nothing wrong with it?
Have you gotten labs done of your thyroid as well?
I am sorry but your situation sounds grave, I am sorry. There is help though
Have you gotten a scan of your hypofisis(pituitary) to make sure there is nothing wrong with it?
Have you gotten labs done of your thyroid as well?
I am sorry but your situation sounds grave, I am sorry. There is help though
OtisDriftwood
New Member
I did MRI but everything is great with my hipofisis...
tha same about thyroid, T3 and T4 in normal range and TSH is great as well.
between pitituary hormones, only hgh and LH/FSH are strange...ACTH and TSH are good.
I dont think its so grave, I think that my axis was slow and sleeping during all my life, without giving any big symptoms because it was a normal trend for my body...when I shutted down my axis with my first cycle, it never responded like a normal axis and so it remained blocked...I think if I dont take any drugs to reactivate it, it will restart in 6-7 more months...its not so serious, imho...its a normal reaction for my body...
I couldnt expect my axis would have restarted normally and quickly! according to my clinical hormonal status.
tha same about thyroid, T3 and T4 in normal range and TSH is great as well.
between pitituary hormones, only hgh and LH/FSH are strange...ACTH and TSH are good.
I dont think its so grave, I think that my axis was slow and sleeping during all my life, without giving any big symptoms because it was a normal trend for my body...when I shutted down my axis with my first cycle, it never responded like a normal axis and so it remained blocked...I think if I dont take any drugs to reactivate it, it will restart in 6-7 more months...its not so serious, imho...its a normal reaction for my body...
I couldnt expect my axis would have restarted normally and quickly! according to my clinical hormonal status.
Sworder
Member
Well, if I understood you correctly, your Total Testosterone was below range at age 21 something is seriously wrong and I don't think it would improve if you were to just wait in my opinion. Maybe try triptorelin if all else has failed you and if that fails I would consider starting TRT, seems like you have had low t your whole life.
Best of luck.
OtisDriftwood
New Member
yep bro, I had low test entire my life...I meant that my testo and LH and FSH can reach values I had before cycle in 6-7 months...without any drugs...obviously they cant reach higher values than they were before cycle...now they are lower than before cycle...Hope I explained clear...I cant wish my testo could become normal just waiting...and most probably it will never become normal, with every reactivation neither...the only thing it can is to come back to previous values, that were pathological, but higher than current values...
before cycle I had testo below the range and LH/FSH low but in range...now, testo lh and fsh are below the normal range...so, its not just a nuts problem, but its an issue of the entire axis...and most probably it depends on hypofisis...that cant allow the axis feedback system! that's all!
Last edited:
Sworder
Member
Yes, I understand your situation. Even though your LH/FSH is low but in range that doesn't mean that you will have a HPTA that it is working as it should.
The main focus is, how do you feel? Are you experiencing the quality of life that you should?
Either way, honestly, I think TRT is great. You are in control of your own hormones, you seem smart enough to come on an English steroid forum to talk about this which is great. Stick around and share your experiences and ask for help!
OtisDriftwood
New Member
thx for support, man! you are right...even though LH/FSH were in range it doesnt mean my axis works as it should...in fact it doesnt! hypofisis should release much more hcg with low test like mine...like in hypotiroidism (T3 an T4 low but TSH skyrocket)...in my case there isn't a feedback! so...while my testo was pathological and LH/FSH quite normal I didnt got any symptoms and my life quality was great...but when also FSH/LH became pathological (due to induced suppresion by first cycle) I began feeling symptoms...because my hypogonadism became worse than before and so it became symptomatic...before the cycle it was asymptomatic because it was cronic...
I think TRT will be a wise solution in the future...btw, at the moment I need to change my situation and turn on the switcher of my androgen layout...so I will run Tomorrow hcg for about 20 days and then 20 more days of gonadorelin or triptorelin...and labs at the end...what dosage of hcg should I take in your opinion??? 500UI ed?? dont want to increase my estro...because I just have an imbalance of estro/andro right now, if I get some extra estro the imbalance will worsen and I will feel worse...my acne will worsen as well.
I think TRT will be a wise solution in the future...btw, at the moment I need to change my situation and turn on the switcher of my androgen layout...so I will run Tomorrow hcg for about 20 days and then 20 more days of gonadorelin or triptorelin...and labs at the end...what dosage of hcg should I take in your opinion??? 500UI ed?? dont want to increase my estro...because I just have an imbalance of estro/andro right now, if I get some extra estro the imbalance will worsen and I will feel worse...my acne will worsen as well.
Sworder
Member
I would do 2000iu EOD hCG, I know it sounds like a lot but it won't be detrimental and estrogen can be controlled with an AI. After that I would say SERMs have less risk and have been proven to increase and help your hypofysis(pituitary.) If you want to take the Triptorelin you can, I would just use extreme caution when using it.
Get Total Testostrone labs while on the hCG too just to see how much your testicles can produce from the hCG. If the your Total Testosterone is not coming up past 300 ng/dl there really isn't a point in doing the triptorelin because your testicles aren't able to even produce testosterone. - in my opinion
Please get the labs for Testosterone @ around day 18 out of the 20 day hCG treatment.
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