BerBerine on HGH Pros/Cons Discussion

ThyNoah

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I have been running HGH for several years and usually have been cruising it at 2iu and then ramp it and blast it with my cycle between 4-6iu split.
Currently right now I’m off HGH after being on it for a year straight which is recommended to help bringing back your BG to baseline, as well to prevent insulin sensitivity and most importantly to avoid developing antibodies for using it over a prolonged period of time. I’ll be getting bloods in a few weeks to get my base before starting back up on my next cycle.

Anyway, one of the biggest tools I utilize while on HGH has always been BerBerine especially above 4iu in order to keep my BG in check. It has always provided what studies have shown is to promote the ability to provide positive effects on blood sugar, cholesterol, heart disease, blood pressure, autoimmune disease, inflammation, weight control. As well as lowering your A1-C.

I have always preferred BerBerine versus utilizing Metaformin due to the vast amount of side effects it could bring.

What I didn’t know, is that there have been multiple studies on BerBerine’s negative side effects in regards to how it can effect pretty much the protein synthesis being decreased in your body over time and increased muscle degradation as well. It also seems to have an impact on your IGF-1 Levels and is not recommended for long term use.

What I am wondering is the extent this has on an individual and if we are obviously on an AAS cycle and working out etc if it’s enough to counterbalance the negative effects as well.


Perhaps @opti @mands @Dr JIM or anyone else familiar with additional studies and its correlation could provide some more insight.


I apologize if the following is quite lengthy but a very informative read I can assure you.....
This is an excerpt from one of the many studies I was reviewing:

“RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS We evaluated whether berberine ameliorates muscle atrophy in db/db mice, a model of type 2 diabetes, by measuring protein synthesis and degradation in muscles of normal and db/db mice treated with or without berberine. We also examined mechanisms for berberine-induced changes in muscle protein metabolism.
RESULTS Berberine administration decreased protein synthesis and increased degradation in muscles of normal and db/db mice. The protein catabolic mechanism depended on berberine-stimulated expression of the E3 ubiquitin ligase, atrogin-1. Atrogin-1 not only increased proteolysis but also reduced protein synthesis by mechanisms that were independent of decreased phosphorylation of Akt or forkhead transcription factors. Impaired protein synthesis was dependent on a reduction in eIF3-f, an essential regulator of protein synthesis. Berberine impaired energy metabolism, activating AMP-activated protein kinase and providing an alternative mechanism for the stimulation of atrogin-1 expression. When we increased mitochondrial biogenesis by expressing peroxisome proliferator–activated receptor γ coactivator-1α, berberine-induced changes in muscle protein metabolism were prevented.
CONCLUSIONS Berberine impairs muscle metabolism by two novel mechanisms. It impairs mitochonidrial function stimulating the expression of atrogin-1 without affecting phosphorylation of forkhead transcription factors. The increase in atrogin-1 not only stimulated protein degradation but also suppressed protein synthesis, causing muscle atrophy.
There is evidence that an herbal compound, berberine, improves insulin-mediated glucose metabolism and enhances insulin sensitivity in mice (1–3). For example, Lee et al. (1) reported that administering berberine to insulin-resistant db/db mice led to a decrease in body fat and significant improvement in glucose tolerance. Because catabolic conditions associated with insulin resistance can lead to progressive muscle atrophy, we examined whether berberine improves muscle protein metabolism. This was of interest because successful inhibition of mechanisms causing loss of muscle mass in diabetic mice might be extended to other catabolic conditions that cause muscle atrophy (4–8). However, we found that berberine actually promoted muscle atrophy in both wild-type and db/db mice. This led us to examine potential mechanisms causing berberine-induced muscle atrophy.
Muscle atrophy induced by several catabolic conditions (e.g., cancer, cachexia, diabetes, chronic kidney disease, cardiac failure, sepsis) share a common group of biochemical and transcriptional adaptations (7–12). In atrophying muscles, there is a higher level of expression of the E3 ubiquitin ligase, atrogin-1/MAFbx, which has been closely linked to stimulation of muscle protein degradation by the ubiquitin-proteasome system (UPS) (13–17). The mechanism that increases atrogin-1 expression has been linked to defects in insulin/IGF-1 signaling, specifically, suppression of insulin receptor substrate (IRS)-1–associated phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase (PI3K) activity and a reduction in p-Akt (14–16). The decrease in p-Akt, in turn, reduces phosphorylation of the forkhead transcription factors (FoxOs) that can enter the nucleus to stimulate atrogin-1 expression. The focus on atrogin-1 in conditions stimulating muscle atrophy arises because atrogin-1 expression causes a proportional increase in muscle protein degradation (17).”


Here is the link for the entire study:
 
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Thank you for this write up
Def saw a reduction in fat loss when I was taking it but now I’m wondering how much I was actually hindering myself by using it with my gh
So as of yesterday I dropped it and I’ll re assess my situation after about 4 weeks and see any differences
 
Can’t find a lot of info on this but what about replacing berberine with Na-r-ala?
not sure if it would have the same effect but could manage blood glucose and insulin sensitivity while on gh
I’m thinking about doing a trail run just need to find more info on dosages and such
 
This is a very interesting study, following this as I also supplement with berberine to keep BG in check. 4ius/day, berberine source comes from Revive MD Glucose supplement.
What’s your dose
I was using the brand Throne at 600mg total a day
200 pre
400 post
Also took silymarin with it

now I’m taking a break to see if anything changes as my igf1 was kinda low also going to be upping the gh to 8iu eod this week
 
What’s your dose
I was using the brand Throne at 600mg total a day
200 pre
400 post
Also took silymarin with it

now I’m taking a break to see if anything changes as my igf1 was kinda low also going to be upping the gh to 8iu eod this week
4ius/day since July
 
This study seems to support the idea that berberine lowers IGF-1.

 
Based on this study is it then preferred to just use metformin instead?
Metformin also lowers igf1 I believe to a greater degree than berberine
They also both seem to lower protein synthesis but I’m not sure on which is worse obviously much more studies on metformin
 
Metformin also lowers igf1 I believe to a greater degree than berberine
They also both seem to lower protein synthesis but I’m not sure on which is worse obviously much more studies on metformin
I’ve used metformin for a long time with GH and it hasn’t lowered my IGF 1 at all. Everyone is different, but that is no reason not to use it if needed. It has a lot of health benefits.
 
I’ve used metformin for a long time with GH and it hasn’t lowered my IGF 1 at all. Everyone is different, but that is no reason not to use it if needed. It has a lot of health benefits.
Curious to know what dose you were running of gh and metformin and what your IgF1 score was on labs
I’m trying to find an alternative to berberine as my labs shows it lowers igf1
I have metformin on hand but was waiting till I upped my dose of gh to 8iu eod
 
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I tried berberine 3x/day for a week and had to quit because of the massive gas bloat I got from it. Took me almost 9 days to recover from that stuff. I'll just eat clean, go moderate on hgh/gear, do daily cardio and if I don't live to 90 so be it lol.
 
metformin seems to be conflicting as there’s studies stating it raises igf1 and others saying a decrease
Only issue is all these studies are done on people with obesity/diabetes/women(PCOS)/children or some combo of those
Obviously none on healthy adult males taking it for gh lol guess we need to do our own studies guys
I’ll be a Guinea pig
I have 250mg metformin tabs I’ll start this week
One with pre meal one with post meal
Unsure of digestion issues as I’ve never used it so imma start low
 
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What brands of Metformin are safe? That whole recal shit would have me double checking my brand for sure lol :p
 
Curious to know what dose you were running of gh and metformin and what your IgF1 score was on labs
I’m trying to find an alternative to berberine as my labs shows it lowers igf1
I have metformin on hand but was waiting till I upped my dose of gh to 8iu eod
My IGF reading is around 400 on 3iu of Serostim daily, and 500mg of Metformin twice daily.
 
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