Biggest Guy I Know Told Me Training Doesn't Matter

[bornSkinny]

A serious training strategy to me is something like 531, westside conjugate where a macro/mesocycle is planned with percentages and hard rules.

The only guys ive seen train hardcore, 90+ minutes workouts, notepad in hand writing down every set, putting up 400lb+ squats & 500lb+ deadlifts are the legitimate nattys. All of them are 15-20% bf and strong as hell, very smart about training but the only part of their body that is large is their glutes & gut.

Going in and doing 3x12 on bench then pumping away on cables and machines for 30-40 minutes seems pretty chill in comparison no? even the mental fatigue of training with percentages and strict accessories/supplemental work is much higher.

He's the biggest guy ive spoken to about training, he's prob 210 and legit 8% bf every time ever seen him in the gym and looks pretty similar to the below pic of Mike Thurston.

I have seen even bigger proper BB types and they train in a similar fluff and pump manner but probably just leverage other drugs GH/Slin etc and eat more/have better genetic frame, insertions, structure.

If I do a quick search of any fitness model and their workouts its the same scenario 90% of the time.

Typical Fluff & Pump + Gear + Genetics

Training delts, starts with upright rows & raises then proceeds to overhead press what looks like 40lb dumbbells.


Hardcore Trainee Squats 500lb, Dead 600lb, Bench 400lb implements tons of exercise science to plan training.

You’re confusing the goals of a training strategy for having one.

Those are powerlifting strength programs. The goal is putting up more weight not getting bigger.

And once again you mentioned these numbers like OMG a 500 lb deadlift like that is impressive. Where are you? My first powerlifting meet my opener was 530 which was basically like a warm up, and I was a novice. Those numbers are nothing special at all, especially in the context of people training for strength sport. I’m curious to know where you live. Not like exactly of course, but small town? Why is a 210lb guy big to you and a 400lb squat noteworthy?

 

[Nilatac]

Just a bit of disclosure from me: the two shoulder surgeries were the result of being hit by a motorcycle and a car on two different occasions while cycling.

It turns out that riding a bicycle has put me at far greater risk than weight training. My wife wishes that I would just use stay in the gym and use AAS because it's far less dangerous than my recently acquired interest in cycling. Perspective for you.

Ok wasn't you but there are people and not a few who has fuck up shoulders from going way to heavy. People that has or need surgery.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

A serious training strategy to me is something like 531, westside conjugate where a macro/mesocycle is planned with percentages and hard rules.

The only guys ive seen train hardcore, 90+ minutes workouts, notepad in hand writing down every set, putting up 400lb+ squats & 500lb+ deadlifts are the legitimate nattys. All of them are 15-20% bf and strong as hell, very smart about training but the only part of their body that is large is their glutes & gut.

Going in and doing 3x12 on bench then pumping away on cables and machines for 30-40 minutes seems pretty chill in comparison no? even the mental fatigue of training with percentages and strict accessories/supplemental work is much higher.

He's the biggest guy ive spoken to about training, he's prob 210 and legit 8% bf every time ever seen him in the gym and looks pretty similar to the below pic of Mike Thurston.

I have seen even bigger proper BB types and they train in a similar fluff and pump manner but probably just leverage other drugs GH/Slin etc and eat more/have better genetic frame, insertions, structure.

If I do a quick search of any fitness model and their workouts its the same scenario 90% of the time.

Typical Fluff & Pump + Gear + Genetics

Training delts, starts with upright rows & raises then proceeds to overhead press what looks like 40lb dumbbells.


Hardcore Trainee Squats 500lb, Dead 600lb, Bench 400lb implements tons of exercise science to plan training.

The false dichotomy of train like a pussy or be a powerlifter.

 

[eferhhth]

biggest guy at the gym wont have much knowledge about what grows them. they respond to basically anything. not to say theyre dumb.

 

[HB_22]

The guy is in his late 20s just under 6 foot, 210lb always shredded with 18 inch arms at least. Looks very similar to Mike Thurston but a bit leaner.

Not sure if you are trolling but Mike Thurston is always very lean and shredded.

 

[bornSkinny]

Weightlifting is comparatively one of the least dangerous physical activities based on injury rate.

In addition, injury 99% of the time comes from poor technique and overshooting what you’re capable of. Neither are good bodybuilding techniques.

The other 1% is freak, random accidents like Millard’s 2 bike accidents.

Cycling can be dangerous depending on where you live. I tried making my bike a primary means of transportation years ago and was shocked how I was treated by people in cars. I gave up after less than two years and only went to riding recreationally.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

biggest guy at the gym wont have much knowledge about what grows them. they respond to basically anything. not to say theyre dumb.

Man I love this trope.

 

[Millard]

those same guys would BURY the average steroid user in a training session whether by intensity or sheer volume, whatever their weapon of choice is

I once had a neighbor (back during the whole hysteria in baseball era) who displayed contempt for all the 'immoral' baseball players who were linked to AAS use. And he, with a straight face and being completely serious, said something to the effect that 'if he wasn't such a good moral person he would be playing in MLB too.'

It's the same sentiment expressed in the OP's example: training doesn't really matter, it's the drugs.

For example, these are the same type of people who seem to think if they used the same protocol as you, they too would have the same results and become pro bodybuilders too.

Many of us who have followed your journey know differently.

We see (as much as can be conveyed in words/photos/videos) what type of dedication, knowledge, implementation, and of course sheer training volume and intensity it takes to achieve that type of success.

When presented with this, it's more difficult for anyone to really believe they are working just as hard as the pros.

So, yeah training IS always very important.

 

[Millard]

Ok wasn't you but there are people and not a few who has fuck up shoulders from going way to heavy. People that has or need surgery.

I won't discount the presence of risk. But at the same time, I will point out that smart training also means training to minimize/prevent injury and maximize recovery to further lower chance of injury.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

I once had a neighbor (back during the whole hysteria in baseball era) who displayed contempt for all the 'immoral' baseball players who were linked to AAS use. And he, with a straight face and being completely serious, said something to the effect that 'if he wasn't such a good moral person he would be playing in MLB too.'

It's the same sentiment expressed in the OP's example: training doesn't really matter, it's the drugs.

For example, these are the same type of people who seem to think if they used the same protocol as you, they too would have the same results and become pro bodybuilders too.

Many of us who have followed your journey know differently.

We see (as much as can be conveyed in words/photos/videos) what type of dedication, knowledge, implementation, and of course sheer training volume and intensity it takes to achieve that type of success.

When presented with this, it's more difficult for anyone to really believe they are working just as hard as the pros.

So, yeah training IS always very important.

Here I was thinking I hadn’t achieved enough success to have others blame it on genetics and drugs yet. Guess I finally made it!

The beautiful thing about our current social media age is I don’t have to reference my process and introduce the fallibility of someone’s trust in me when people have literal unrestricted access to pros. And yet it appears in bodybuilding everyone doubts the pros work their dicks off despite seeing if daily; it’s just all drugs and genetics. But nobody doubts an NFL WR doing drills and training all damn year to be better the next.

But if we want anecdote, every single one of my clients treats training like a priority and every single one grows more on less gear than they’ve used in the past. Strange.

 

[Nilatac]

I won't discount the presence of risk. But at the same time, I will point out that smart training also means training to minimize/prevent injury and maximize recovery to further lower chance of injury.

Progressive overload and not doing what Branch Warren was doing in his videos is a way to start doing things.

If someone is interesting throw a eye on Mike Wyck on YouTube. If you have some time look on some videos

 

[Palifter]

The irony of this thread is that this “biggest guy” isn’t even big so that pretty much solidifies that training is in fact paramount lol

 

[Nilatac]

The irony of this thread is that this “biggest guy” isn’t even big so that pretty much solidifies that training is in fact paramount lol

Or if he would take more than 1-1,5g of anabolics for 20 weeks it would solidifies that training is not that paramount.
He takes 10mg/kg. That's not a big dose. Big guys take more than that. He would be bigger if he would take more and eat more and he would fallow the same training principle

 

[Type-IIx]

I literally don't understand the instinct towards reductionism that runs rampant, "it's all about X," "it's got nothing to do with Y."

Extreme examples? Let's look at diet...

EX 1: "fat loss is ALL ABOUT insulin," so these people eliminate carbohydrates, a fucking major macronutrient and our brain's fuel (ya i kno the brain can use ketones after adaptation).

EX 2: "fat loss has NOTHING TO DO WITH food source choices," so these people eat velvet cake and doughnuts because it fits their macros, and are surprised when they're always ravenous at nighttime because they don't account for satiety and TEF, etc.

Why does everyone try to simplify things to the point of absolute fucking idiocy?

I understand that not everybody is going on to advanced nutrition courses of studies and the like, but can we stop intimating that bodybuilding success is not driven by MULTIPLE FACTORS, not the least of which includes training??!

 

[kosp]

Old bodybuilders got impressive size with much less gear than nowadays.

A lot of lazy people use gear to get gains with minimum effort.

 

[shartking]

I literally don't understand the instinct towards reductionism that runs rampant, "it's all about X," "it's got nothing to do with Y."

Extreme examples? Let's look at diet...

EX 1: "fat loss is ALL ABOUT insulin," so these people eliminate carbohydrates, a fucking major macronutrient and our brain's fuel (ya i kno the brain can use ketones after adaptation).

EX 2: "fat loss has NOTHING TO DO WITH food source choices," so these people eat velvet cake and doughnuts because it fits their macros, and are surprised when they're always ravenous at nighttime because they don't account for satiety and TEF, etc.

Why does everyone try to simplify things to the point of absolute fucking idiocy?

I understand that not everybody is going on to advanced nutrition courses of studies and the like, but can we stop intimating that bodybuilding success is not driven by MULTIPLE FACTORS, not the least of which includes training??!

Sounds too complicated.

 

[Rido]

Old bodybuilders got impressive size with much less gear than nowadays.

A lot of lazy people use gear to get gains with minimum effort.

Work smarter with 5 grams of gear, more food, and minimal training.


Amidoingitright?

 

[Nilatac]

Old bodybuilders got impressive size with much less gear than nowadays.

A lot of lazy people use gear to get gains with minimum effort.

I don't know where you got this info. They wasn't on 500 mg of anabolics.
And compare a pro nowdays vs a 80' competitor. You will see that is a difference in size between those era.
Things evolved, more drugs,different drugs,different type of training.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Or if he would take more than 1-1,5g of anabolics for 20 weeks it would solidifies that training is not that paramount.
He takes 10mg/kg. That's not a big dose. Big guys take more than that. He would be bigger if he would take more and eat more and he would fallow the same training principle

Big guys take more huh? All of us?

 

[Type-IIx]

Sounds too complicated.

In which case there are drivers on the road with IQs of 65 (mental retardation), that can process competing interests and balance multiple factors more effectively than you.