Biggest Guy I Know Told Me Training Doesn't Matter

[Palifter]

Or if he would take more than 1-1,5g of anabolics for 20 weeks it would solidifies that training is not that paramount.
He takes 10mg/kg. That's not a big dose. Big guys take more than that. He would be bigger if he would take more and eat more and he would fallow the same training principle

You seem to have it all figured out. You must be a beast.

 

[Nilatac]

Big guys take more huh? All of us?

I don't know. You build your muscles with 500 mg of test? A ifbb pro take 500 mg of test? A 175 cm and over 100 kg on stage take 500 mg of test or he take more
How much everyone taking is personal dependent on several factors and genetic is a important one.

 

[Nilatac]

You seem to have it all figured out. You must be a beast.

I don't know. I am 178cm and was 130-135 kg at around 15-18 bf I guess. I don't think I got to this by being lucky or by taking 500 of test or something minimal.
When I pushed the drugs I got bigger. I don't know if this is a coincidence but I think not

 

[combover]

I wish it was all drugs like we all imagined
before we did them.
I'd run upstairs and slam everything I got so I can be on stage next to mac and pal.

@Mac11wildcat will you tell me your cycle? I'm just gonna double your doses so I can be twice as big as you lol.

 

[jJjburton]

Doing heavy deadlift,bench and squat will lead more than likely to some injuries that will hold you back. From some injuries you will not be the same anymore.
Recently a guy from this forum tear his pec and had a surgery,Millard had a surgery for shoulder and I had tear my pec twice and my hamstring 3 times going 100%. Depends from what part of the world you are those surgery and RMI cost. Are you affording those cost? It's a expense that could be avoided.
Is this worth it for someone who doesn't do strength sport?
You can get to the same place without ending in a wheel chair or putting yourself on a surgery table just by increasing the weights gradually and doing more reps and machines.
And yes the more you take and eat you will get bigger. Is no surprise that

Do you bench after tearing pec? Dumbells? Or just stick to machines?

 

[Nilatac]

I wish it was all drugs like we all imagined
before we did them.
I'd run upstairs and slam everything I got so I can be on stage next to mac and pal.

@Mac11wildcat will you tell me your cycle? I'm just gonna double your doses so I can be twice as big as you lol.

Probably if you had read the first post with attention you will understand what the guy mean with training is not that important and he gives example on how training looks to give you results and not going cripple.

This idea is misunderstood. If you say don't break your body and don't give too much importance to weights it doesn't mean that you don't train... don't try to be Branch Warren in the gym that's the point because you will not get far

 

[Mac11wildcat]

I don't know. I am 178cm and was 130-135 kg at around 15-18 bf I guess. I don't think I got to this by being lucky or by taking 500 of test or something minimal. When I pushed the drugs I got bigger. I don't know if this is a coincidence but I think not

There’s nobody here debating you *can* grow more on more drugs. That’s the same as saying eat more and you’ll gain weight. No shit.

You’ve however done nothing but say that drugs are all that matter.

I’m 12 years and almost 120lbs into this and still developing on ~10mg/kg offseasons.

You do you, but your message is the same old and tired one that has kids burning out on grams of drugs and looking like shit.

 

[Nilatac]

There’s nobody here debating you *can* grow more on more drugs. That’s the same as saying eat more and you’ll gain weight. No shit.

You’ve however done nothing but say that drugs are all that matter.

I’m 12 years and almost 120lbs into this and still developing on ~10mg/kg offseasons.

You do you, but your message is the same old and tired one that has kids burning out on grams of drugs and looking like shit.

Ok
Do your thing what can I say. I am not here to convert anyone from their believes. I am not here neither to sound smart as I don't gain anything from this. I just waste my time around here and trying to share opinions on some subjects. Pretty pointless thing to do but maybe I should start playing games than sitting around here
I didn't say drug is all that matter but without them no one will look how they look on stage. Yes drugs and diet is more important than how you train.
Drop all the drugs or take a quarter of what you take now and continue to train and see what it will happen. Or take more drugs and up your nutrients and see what it will happen. Then you will see what plays a bigger role in this
I don't know, do as you wish

 

[Nilatac]

And because I have seen that putting studies on top of studies is something that trick new guys that the guy that do that knows what he talks about I am going to do the same

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199607043350101

 

[bornSkinny]

Ok
Do your thing what can I say. I am not here to convert anyone from their believes. I am not here neither to sound smart as I don't gain anything from this. I just waste my time around here and trying to share opinions on some subjects. Pretty pointless thing to do but maybe I should start playing games than sitting around here
I didn't say drug is all that matter but without them no one will look how they look on stage. Yes drugs and diet is more important than how you train.
Drop all the drugs or take a quarter of what you take now and continue to train and see what it will happen. Or take more drugs and up your nutrients and see what it will happen. Then you will see what plays a bigger role in this
I don't know, do as you wish

I think maybe this board being focused on harm reduction there should be more of an attitude of less is more when it comes to aas use. I remember not long ago when I first started it was pretty much like here’s 500test, some Dbol tabs and a little adex. You’ll be huge. Not the best way to properly learn to use safely or effectively, even if you want to really push the dosages.
Now as I’m older, I’m really wishing I had not just used so haphazardly risking my health, and feel I could have gotten the same results with less shit.

That said. I do find some of the new school perplexing and think some people must just be hyper responsive to gear in ways I am definitely not. I was listening to a podcast the other day with a guy who’s a pro and coaches John Jewett and I swear he was talking about his prep going into a pro show was like 250test 150mast or something like that. And he went nuts and threw in an oral or two at the end. I was thinking that might not even keep my dick hard and that’s a prep for a pro show?
I’m sympathetic to what you’re saying about the gear matters and when you keep hearing very low doses like that it’s difficult to believe but I think people are running less stuff nowadays just doing it smarter.

 

[SVENGALI]

Maybe he forgot the part where training is actually fun, real, and therapy for most. Personal betterment is this entire journey, in guessing hes not competing which ia fine, but hes too young to get the nuances of the lifestyle for anything other than his own age. I know bc I was there minus the limited training and gear at the time

 

[killionb12]

This is the biggest guy you know? Take advice from someone who's actually big like @Mac11wildcat or @killionb12 or @Palifter

I am pretty confident those three would say training matters and they are three of if not the three biggest on here.

Absolutely it matters. Training and nutrition are equally important in my eyes. You can’t grow without adequate nutrition and you can’t grow without adequate stimulus. Training to failure with high intensity is the best way to grow. Doesn’t matter if high volume or low. Doesn’t matter if heavy weight lower reps or lower weight high reps. Typically as long as you are training within the 5-30 rep range with good form, intensity and to failure you will grow. More drugs doesn’t equal more muscle. In my 15 years of bodybuilding I have done high dosage and lower dosage. Never saw great gains with higher dosages just more side effects. Start low and titrate up when you plateau.

If he is only 210lbs at 6ft then he isn’t training hard enough or eating enough or both! My wife is 6ft and weighs in the 220s during peak offseason. She trains harder than most men in the gym and is eating upwards to 4k calories. Her results show for themselves. Eat more and train harder and use the bare minimum of drugs to grow is the moral of the story. Now drugs will go up obviously as you get bigger but doesn’t have to be substantially more.

 

[bornSkinny]

Absolutely it matters. Training and nutrition are equally important in my eyes. You can’t grow without adequate nutrition and you can’t grow without adequate stimulus. Training to failure with high intensity is the best way to grow. Doesn’t matter if high volume or low. Doesn’t matter if heavy weight lower reps or lower weight high reps. Typically as long as you are training within the 5-30 rep range with good form, intensity and to failure you will grow. More drugs doesn’t equal more muscle. In my 15 years of bodybuilding I have done high dosage and lower dosage. Never saw great gains with higher dosages just more side effects. Start low and titrate up when you plateau.

If he is only 210lbs at 6ft then he isn’t training hard enough or eating enough or both! My wife is 6ft and weighs in the 220s during peak offseason. She trains harder than most men in the gym and is eating upwards to 4k calories. Her results show for themselves. Eat more and train harder and use the bare minimum of drugs to grow is the moral of the story. Now drugs will go up obviously as you get bigger but doesn’t have to be substantially more.
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Don’t freak this guy out. He’s never seen a guy bigger than your wife.

Nice back.

 

[Rido]

I think maybe this board being focused on harm reduction there should be more of an attitude of less is more when it comes to aas use. I remember not long ago when I first started it was pretty much like here’s 500test, some Dbol tabs and a little adex. You’ll be huge. Not the best way to properly learn to use safely or effectively, even if you want to really push the dosages.
Now as I’m older, I’m really wishing I had not just used so haphazardly risking my health, and feel I could have gotten the same results with less shit.

That said. I do find some of the new school perplexing and think some people must just be hyper responsive to gear in ways I am definitely not. I was listening to a podcast the other day with a guy who’s a pro and coaches John Jewett and I swear he was talking about his prep going into a pro show was like 250test 150mast or something like that. And he went nuts and threw in an oral or two at the end. I was thinking that might not even keep my dick hard and that’s a prep for a pro show?
I’m sympathetic to what you’re saying about the gear matters and when you keep hearing very low doses like that it’s difficult to believe but I think people are running less stuff nowadays just doing it smarter.

I am sure with physique and classic physique some people want to target a particular size as well.

Not everyone wants to be 250+ lbs

 

[bornSkinny]

I am sure with physique and classic physique some people want to target a particular size as well.

Not everyone wants to be 250+ lb

Gonna be very height dependent. I basically reset my normal adult body weight and I’m now most comfortable at mid 240’s. The first couple years I was this size though it was uncomfortable.

I’m like 6’2” though and that’s different than carrying that weight around if you’re 5’6”.

 

[shartking]

In which case there are drivers on the road with IQs of 65 (mental retardation), that can process competing interests and balance multiple factors more effectively than you.

I wasn't saying you were wrong!

 

[Juggy3838]

Do you ever train with friends? I CANT stand training with most people. My buddy…hey let’s go do shoulders….Umm ok. 3 sets of front raises, (none close to failure) 3 sets of lateral raises…none approaching failure…..3 sets of dumbbell press…holy shit the last set was hard. And he is done.

Training fucking matters.

 

[Evom1]

Absolutely it matters. Training and nutrition are equally important in my eyes. You can’t grow without adequate nutrition and you can’t grow without adequate stimulus. Training to failure with high intensity is the best way to grow. Doesn’t matter if high volume or low. Doesn’t matter if heavy weight lower reps or lower weight high reps. Typically as long as you are training within the 5-30 rep range with good form, intensity and to failure you will grow. More drugs doesn’t equal more muscle. In my 15 years of bodybuilding I have done high dosage and lower dosage. Never saw great gains with higher dosages just more side effects. Start low and titrate up when you plateau.

If he is only 210lbs at 6ft then he isn’t training hard enough or eating enough or both! My wife is 6ft and weighs in the 220s during peak offseason. She trains harder than most men in the gym and is eating upwards to 4k calories. Her results show for themselves. Eat more and train harder and use the bare minimum of drugs to grow is the moral of the story. Now drugs will go up obviously as you get bigger but doesn’t have to be substantially more.
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Bro your wife is bigger than the biggest guy he knows. And she's got an absolutely phenomenal back

Your offseason outweighs his friend by what.. 80lbs?

 

[killionb12]

Bro your wife is bigger than the biggest guy he knows. And she's got an absolutely phenomenal back

Your offseason outweighs his friend by what.. 80lbs?

Yeah at my peak I was 294-295ish. Im 6’3ish so I’m a few inches taller.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Bit of a bold statement but let me explain:

The guy is in his late 20s just under 6 foot, 210lb always shredded with 18 inch arms at least. Looks very similar to Mike Thurston but a bit leaner. Basically his philosophy is execute perfectly on what yields the most result which is quality diet, quality drugs + thoughtful blasts, quality sleep, stress reduction then training in that order.

I won't go into the diet, sleep and living a low stress lifestyle since we are all pretty aware of what that entails but his comments about drugs & training were fascinating.

Regarding Drugs
He basically blasts hard 1-1.5G total gear for 20 weeks per year only when trying to gain size and only uses compounds which agree with him. In his case it's a mix of Test C, Primo or Mast, Anavar in and out to break plateaus in strength.

Only cuts around 8-10 weeks total during the year to get back into single digits using 200 test & 200 primo or mast.

The other 22 weeks of the year is spent on minimal test only so he can get bloodwork in order to blast again, remain somewhat healthy so he can stay doing this for the long run.

Regarding training
He told me it doesn't matter just focus on 10-20 sets per week per muscle in preferably 2 split sessions, choose exercises with low injury risk and get stronger over time mostly doing 5-15 reps. Explained that training doesn't matter as much as people want you to believe because you can alter your physique by 10-15lb of muscle by increasing calories and going from a cruise to blast as long as your routine isnt something ridiculous like 5 sets of pushups per week.

But going from a somewhat suboptimal bro routine to the best routine in the world might mean like 10% more gains, so him taking it easy and not worrying about % based progression and gruelling compound lifts makes sense for his physique goals.
Routine is very similar to those fluff and pump type workouts you see pro bbs doing, ive never seen him do compound movements bar the bench press and even then he's doing sets of 12 with 225 so nowhere near his max. Literally every exercise is a plate loaded machine or cable and im guessing it's due to a high stimulus to fatigue ratio.

How accurate is all this for the non natty lifter? Gave me flashbacks of the GH15 bible lol

I like this post so much ! That's something interesting to discuss really! I've not even read any answers yet!!

Well I've been into lifting weights with a goal and purpose about 12 years 7 of them expiramenting with anabolics.

7 years on anabolics is enough to cause some serious changes in once body.

Well of course 7 years with anabolics you pretty much want to have dialed in everything food drugs health training.
In summary I spent 5 years natural went from 65 kg to 86kg (but pretty leanish) and then from anabolics to 112kg.

Last two years I haven't blasted I'm on TRT 110-120mg Test C a week. I maintain 95kg leanish (12-14%).

On what I consider the worse nightmare for a bodybuilder. In those 2 years my training has been pretty inconsistent anywhere from 1-4 times a week.
Most weeks is 3 but there have been many weeks who didn't train at all.
My sleep is fucked for example now that I'm writing I've been awake for around 50 hours, I will maybe sleep now for 2-3 hours and then for 5-6 hours at night.
My sleep is fucked up like this, for the last 2 years I enjoy a 8 hour sleep occasionally some weekends.

My job is very physical demanding, to a point that a very few people would really understand.

My diet is quality but calories some days more some days less. But overall I stabilize it.

When I hit the gym, I have no notebook anymore I don't try to beat the logbook

I get in the gym, I will do either Upper or lower. I like doing some basic strength work like, incline bench press increasing weight as I go 6 reps per set until I hit my top.

Then I'll do a basic back exercise nowadays I like weighted pull ups same fashion but 5 reps.

After that I'll some feel good exercises 2 or 3 depending on the mood , where I just play my cock don't count weight reps or sets I just like my muscles to feel good

Then do some stretching
I also do cardio almost everyday at least a mile run.

And I maintain 95kg leanish at 6'3 on trt
Now if I increase dosage to 250mg a week I jump at 98 at lower fat maybe a steady 12% now I can really easily twicking that into 97kg 10% or at 100kg at a steady 14%.

If I add 500mg test I have even better results.

If I don't add test but little var ? Same-ish results but dryer harder pronounced abdominal

If I add dbol instead of var? Still same anabolic results but with meatier "wetter" look.

So your friend got it right after so many years because I've come to the same conclusion.

BUT also all those years in the gym I got better at it and obviously a lot of stronger.

I acquired my muscle through food drugs but also A SICK ASS TRAINING I was into hardcore bodybuilding I wanted max weights max reps ALWAYS every exercise every set , I've breaked My 8rep max let's say into 14 15 rep max.
I also got a fair bit of injuries.

My training did played an important role to acquire my muscles.
But now who I'm into work mostly I can adjust my look very easily with , MINOR adjustments into food or drugs.

But remember I can do this because I killed myself back then to have that base now.


**need to jump to GH to keep my edge because that 12-14% tends to be not like it was as I grow older
**also like to use some test some mast and some var just like your friend

***what I consider playing my cock in the gym and not training hard etc even then, maybe be too much still for the regular Joe