Chip said:
neo, i see where you're coming from brother and what you're saying is a very warm sentiment indeed but, practically speaking, how do you separate the individual from his behavior? isn't the individual who he is as a result of his behavior? aren't our actions the currency by which we make our social exchanges? i'm not trying to be antagonistic here either. i'm just trying to understand and internalize what you're saying properly, as opposed to yes'ing you blindly, and i'm having a hard time at this point in time.
me:
Man, that gets right to the heart of the matter. I suppose it's the most natural question in the world, but for some reason I'm impressed as hell that you brought it up. I guess no one really thinks about that, or for some reason won't bring that out in conversation.
I think I struggled with this one the most of anything in the last 5 years of my own spiritual oddessy. I'm also 44 years old, which doesn't make my progress exactly stellar. But then, that does makes it easier to not give myself false credit, invoking humility rather than pride.
I especially had a problem with this, because I relied on my mind too much most of my life. I tried to figure everything out and understand it, and because I was successful, I thought that was the way to go.
I say that because though I can now explain the reasoning behind this, understanding it is not the answer. As you said, it needs to be internalized, and this is a matter of the heart more than the mind.
By the way, just because we don't get to judge anyone anymore, doesn't mean we don't get to respond to their actions. They DID something, said something, and probably hurt someone. Sometimes that needs to be addressed, or they will never change, never see the truth, never grow.
AND, our own heart needs to be honest, needs to express itself, needs to connect and touch others. Others need to know how we feel. Why else live?
The first part is, we need to understand the difference between judging and discerning. Judging someone else is condemning them from our perspective. Imagining our perspective is sufficient to judge another person, is pride and egomaniacal. And yeah, almost all of society spends most of its time (wastes) it's time judging others. See all the cop and judge shows currently going. Soap opera's exist for this, we get to hate the bad guy, etc.
I often find the answer in babies.
Looking at a baby, I see innocents and beauty, helplessness, need, and infinite honesty. They cry when upset, they gurgle when happy, they hide nothing.
Secondly I find the answer in my own failures.
I fuck up HUGE, yet somehow, I want people to know I really didn't want to hurt them. I was being selfish perhaps, or even innocent and did something that hurt them.
The thing is, I never want them to assume I had an evil motive, and if they see that I DID, I still want them to forgive me, because now I am sorry.
Also, there are times inbetween awareness, in which I am not sorry, and think I did not wrong. I then want them to be patient with me, and even love me, returning good for my evil.
Logically, if I apply this to myself, I must apply it to others. I cannot be a hypocrite. Being a hypocrite is appalling to everyone, even hypocrites. In fact, hypocrites hate other hypocrites more than anything.
Practical life has taught me that returning evil for evil has never helped, not once. I think I feel better for a bit, but honestly, my heart is hurt in the end, much more... I feel the effects for months, years... until it is fixed.
Maybe this all goes back to 'he that is without sin, cast the first stone'.
Now if I were God, it would be easy. He knows the heart, understands every action, every choice, and every hurt this person has endured. He knows exactly what is going on.
So logically I must leave that up to God. If one doesn't believe in God, then maybe what I'm saying won't help. Don't know...
Anyway, I've been blessed to know some people who's actions are often horrible, but who's hearts I know intimately. I've found no matter how insane their actions looked to me, their heart was always in the right place, OR, they always SO regretted any pain they caused others...
Imagining that, and each person you meet as a baby, helps most of the time. But then there are those times the person hurt you, said they are glad they did it, and say they would like to do it again, and take pleasure in it...
I see these people as ultimately brutalized to the point of their own hearts being insane, and not knowing anything about love. A person who does not know love, cannot be held responsible for not loving.
Let me illustrate with another man's analogy, Dr. Wayne Dyer.
If you ask a man for an orange, and he has none, would you be angry with him for not giving it to you?
If people live in pain and agony of the heart, having been hurt, brutalized, or drained to nothing, how can you ever be angry with them?
In order to be angry with someone and judge them, one would have to know their hearts their entire lives. This is why it's SO much harder for family members to forgive one another, they have a false sense of knowing the others motivations, of knowing them intimately.
The hard part of this is dealing with the pain, but only if you don't understand the process, and why expressing YOUR heart is absolutely necessary.
here's where I have to explain that the basis for all of this, is that everything in the universe is meant for one thing, to allow loving relationships.
God, or the universe, if you prefer, has one ultimate goal, that love may prevail, that relationships may prosper, that we all get to know one another in positive fulfillment... (man that sounds SO stupid and cold compared to the romance, excitement, fun, and thrills involved!)
Someone hurting you means then, that you MUST express your feelings, your heart, so that they have a chance to respond in kind (but if not, you must have patience, you have done your part).
Goodness overcomes evil. A soft word puts out the flames of anger, yada yada yada... there are a million truisms saying this.
But not one says evil helps evil, turning it good.
Hurting others after they have hurt you is what animals do... Humans, people who have hearts, feelings, and character, are above this.
So the practical results of everything is summed up in,
Love is patient, love is kind, love hopes and believes all things, love does not judge, etc. (1 Corinthians 13, the love chapter).
Logically, practically, and emotionally, therefore, it is never good to judge anyone else, lest we be judging ourselves, and we should always return good for evil, and always remember that evil comes not from the person, but from his own experiences, which may lack any intimate fullfilling love altogether, and that in the end, God is the only one who can judge.
Also, it just plain is selfish and never helps in the end, to be mean to someone else, or judge them.
We just don't know, can't know, and have to believe and hope the best.
THEN, I found, my own heart is free of almost all pain, pure, happy, and full of creativity and joy. I enjoy people, etc.
But I still express myself and get angry and do everything on the outside, so my heart and it's faults are never hidden... with the caveat, that many people will only get hurt if I express myself, and I want to love and help them, not hurt them, so I don't express myself according to my feelings alone, but with the full awareness of the other person, their heart, and their maturity level, etc.
This all has to be me, being true to my heart, not my mind. My mind messes everything up. When I go by my feelings, that is when I succeed at what is important. That's where relationship is fulfilling and real.
Your heart, and the other persons heart, must meet, and love. They must be real, intimate, transparent and honest to the core. the more we reach that, the more satisfying, the more beautiful our relationships become.
Only by being filled with love by God, can we have love (our bad of oranges) to give to others. People try to do this on their own, and are sorely disappointed in the results... but you can't give out what you don't have inside you.
The world is dying on a starvation diet of mind, and what everyone needs is love. The thing preventing that is judgment.
Therefore, foregiveness, and understanding we are all exactly the same when we are babies, will help us be kind and patient one to another.
That doesn't mean you don't belt a guy for insulting your wife, it means you seek love in every case, following God's spirit, and sometimes he does have you physically respond.
In any case, you must be true to your heart, else one will think they are perfect. Making mistakes is the greatest of blessings to bring love and humility to a life.
Giving that same grace to others, blesses us.
But returning evil for evil, hurts us.
So judging others by actions can never help, but discernment and love, always will. Some people will have to go to prison, a safe place where they can work out their hearts problems, I realize. And sometimes you have to give up and walk away from a relationship, when you have nothing more in you to give. Those are all practical realities. It's not on us to save the world, just not judge anyone, and rather, love them no matter what. have mercy no matter what. Be as kind and peacable as we can be, always asking God for more.
I love confrontation, like this one with Rob. I find it is a great way for me to show love, but that doesn't mean I can't have fun and call him names and stuff, because otherwise, I'd be talking down to him, not treating him as I want to be treated.
No one is better than anyone else, and everyone knows how we want to be treated. That's the golden rule... do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.
Good grief I hope this doesn't come across like a sermon. sheesh...
Thanks for asking that question bro. Good one.
