MESO-Rx Exclusive Bill Roberts 2 on 4 off cycle update

[Dr JIM]

It doesn't require much competency to post on Meso, heck even I can do it, and I'm considered computer illiterate by some of my colleagues. If time permits teach them to become Meso savvy, Millard likes newbies to, (we all used to be one after all)!

 

[body by cookies and cake]

well people pay me to educated them and train them, so i have to do teh leg work if that makes sense. not please go on here www.... tonight and find out all the info u need to know then come back to me. lol

if i was using the "friend" excuse im not sure why or how much merit it would have seeing im on the internet and behind a computer.

 

[jaytaylor84]

how much test prop should i use to optimize my cycle if that is all i have.. (i have a bit of tbol ill be using with it as well but im only able to use 50 mg per day so i can stretch that out over a few cycles...) i remember bill recommending at least a gram of test prop a week but would 2 g's give great results? (considering i wont be stacking tren with it)

 

[Bill Roberts]

There would be nothing wrong with the 2 g/week level except that injections would have to stop sooner, and my guesswork might be slightly off on the last day of injection, as I have no experience with TP-only brief cycles at other than the 1050 mg/week level.

At the 2 g/week level, if Day 9 was the last injection, then if the half-life were exactly 2 days (very unlikely that it is exactly that!) then by Day 11 levels would be commensurate with 1 g/week use; Day 13 with 500 mg/week use; and Day 15 with 250 mg/week use, which is still a little high. So say Day 8 as the last injection, or Day 7 to allow for some error.

The frontload would be 800 mg on Day 1.

The non-injection days could be beefed with OT. This would be of particular advantage in the last few days.

 

[jaytaylor84]

thank you so much bill you are always so helpful

 

[Bill Roberts]

Glad to help!

 

[delldell]

I am planning on running a few short cycles and would like a little feedback.
I have plenty of test susp/prop (100mg/ml each), about 15-20 tabs each of 50mg winny and dbol, and enough var for about 1-2 cycles. Goal is to add muscle and lean out a little bit.

Based on info from BR and a couple others, this is what I had in mind:
Day 1: 400mg susp/prop, 20mg var
Day 2-10: 200mg susp/prop, 20mg var
Day 11-14: 20mg var

How much improvement would there be by adding a tab of winny on days 1-14?

In the past, I have had some nipple sensitivity when running test. Is .25mg of arimidex EOD sufficient to keep those sides minimized? I have novla and clomid as well, but hate using clomid because I turn into an emotional basketcase with PMS. lol

 

[Bill Roberts]

At 1400 mg/week testosterone usage, I'd be looking at 1 mg/day of Arimidex, with 3 mg on Day 1.

A blood test on Day 10 or 11 for estradiol would be a good idea, to obtain information you can use on your next cycle.

If it happened that the 1 mg was slightly high, that's really not important over such a short duration.

The Arimidex dosing could stop on Day 10.

At 1400 mg/week testosterone, adding 50 mg Winstrol would be relatively subtle added improvement. You could certainly beef up Days 11-14 with the orals. OR Day 11 already has high levels from the injections and so if you wanted, it could be just Days 12-14 that get major boost from orals.

 

[Realgains]

In a two week cycle, you don't want to unnecessarily lose even a day. You only have 14 of them!

Without frontloading, it takes 7 half lives to reach full levels. If figuring half life as two days, that's 14 days to reach full level. In actuality one gets pretty close by 5 half-lives, and mostway there by 3.

But even figuring for "mostway there," that's 6 days.

It's not that there's nothing in the meantime, but there's considerably less than full effect.

Out of only 14 days, that's just too long.

Yes!

and I'll add this.....

I am not in favor of test prop alone for a 2 weeker. I bet Bill isn't either. If you want to do a roid alone for a 2 weeker then do dbol at 50mg per day in 4-5 divided doses or anadrol 50mg twice a day. These are the ONLY two roids that will do justice to a 2 weeker. Ok the other hormone would be test in suspension form and with daily injections. You want to make every single day of the 14 weeker a great anabolic day...you only have 14 weeks. Thus even with correct front loading you will not get the most out of prop because you have to stop about day 10

PLEASE do justice to 2 weekers. Hit them heavy and fast and then get out fast.

ie: ...dbol only 50mg per day in 5 divided doses for all 14 days
...Drol only at 50mg X twice a day for 14 days
...Test prop 450mg on day one then 150mg for 10 days then stop. Plus Tren 150mg on day one and then 75 mg per day for 11 days and then stop. Plus Winny orally 100mg per day in 4 divided doses all 14 days.

Tren ace 150mg on day one and then 75mg per day for 11 days and then stop plus dbol 50mg per day in 5 divided doses for 14 days.

Don't use any ester with a slower release than prop.

I HIGHLY recommend dbol or anadrol on all 2 weekers.

 

[body by cookies and cake]

Yes!

and I'll add this.....

I am not in favor of test prop alone for a 2 weeker. I bet Bill isn't either. If you want to do a roid alone for a 2 weeker then do dbol at 50mg per day in 4-5 divided doses or anadrol 50mg twice a day. These are the ONLY two roids that will do justice to a 2 weeker. Ok the other hormone would be test in suspension form and with daily injections. You want to make every single day of the 14 weeker a great anabolic day...you only have 14 weeks. Thus even with correct front loading you will not get the most out of prop because you have to stop about day 10

PLEASE do justice to 2 weekers. Hit them heavy and fast and then get out fast.

ie: ...dbol only 50mg per day in 5 divided doses for all 14 days
...Drol only at 50mg X twice a day for 14 days
...Test prop 450mg on day one then 150mg for 10 days then stop. Plus Tren 150mg on day one and then 75 mg per day for 11 days and then stop. Plus Winny orally 100mg per day in 4 divided doses all 14 days.

Tren ace 150mg on day one and then 75mg per day for 11 days and then stop plus dbol 50mg per day in 5 divided doses for 14 days.

Don't use any ester with a slower release than prop.

I HIGHLY recommend dbol or anadrol on all 2 weekers.

IS replacing tren with mast a waste of time ? if running close to 1g a week?

 

[Under]

What about NPP?

 

[mercury168]

Hi everyone,

I dont mean to hijack this thread but i dont want to start a similar thread either so my apologies if this post offends anyone.

I have stumbled upon this thread as I was researching for a cycle. I have never done a cycle and would like to start one. I know from many forums that they discourage tren for first cycles (long cycles). However, I have stumbled upon short cycle threads that say that tren is safer than a test cycle for short term as it clears the body faster with lesser damage. I am unsure on this and wish that you guys can give me a clearer idea on whether I can do this as a first cycle or not.

I just want to lose some fat faster and build 5-10lbs of LBM. I am 37 yo, 5'9", 190lbs, 23% BF according to an online calculator. I follow a regulated diet of lean meat and veggies and stick to 1600 - 1800 cal per day thru 6 small meals a day. Have lost 25lbs last 4 mos and am hoping to speed up the fat loss and LBM. I dont want to get bulky. I just need some help to get to my natural peak the quickest. Been working out on off for the past couple of years, the last 5 being more on swimming and mountain biking but the occasional gym. I have been working out 5 days a week for the past 4 mos now. I know - its pathetic compared to your regimen - i work out with proper form and control with the just the right amount of weight, if that matters.

What I can get ahold of is Rippex from eagle anaobolics that has 75mg of each of the ff: Test Prop, Tren ace and Masteron Prop. Am hoping to add some winny to it. Is that a good idea? Would you even recommend this mix for a first timer?

I know many of you experienced body builders would recommend just testosterone as a first cycle and I dont mind doing that as well. Its just that I am getting conflicting advises on different forums. I have some test e at the moment which I know will not work for a short cycle. So i was wondering if i can just front load with test e and then continue on with test p until day 11 or 12? Is that a better approach? Can I add some winny to it on my first cycle or would the test suffice? Also, what anti estrogen would you advise? Is proviron ok or adex?

If none of these are advisable, could you please let me know an easier first time short cycle for me?

Regardless of whatever direction you recommend, could you please advise a PCT regimen?

More so, if you dont think I'm ready, please let me know BUT i would like to take something to speed up the fat burning and build a higher LBM. Am just on clen and proviron (I have an abnormally high estrogen count at the moment).

Please dont flame me. I am here humbly for your guidance.

Hope to hear from you. Thanks.