Blood Pressure

[Millard]

@malfeasance a couple studies in which you may have some interest. Came across them looking at propranolol for tachycardia I’ve had for a couple days.

Combination therapy in hypertension: An update - PMC

Meticulous control of blood pressure is required in patients with hypertension to produce the maximum reduction in clinical cardiovascular end points, especially in patients with comorbidities like diabetes mellitus where more aggressive blood ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Apparently, this combo is good for the liver?

Telmisartan plus propranolol improves liver fibrosis and bile duct proliferation in the PSC-like Abcb4-/- mouse model - PubMed

Telmisartan plus propranolol reduces liver fibrosis and bile duct proliferation in the PSC-like Abcb4 (-/-) mouse model, even when started at late stages of fibrosis, and may thus represent a novel therapeutic option for cholestatic liver diseases such as PSC.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

if you read that study I posted earlier, with propranolol, liver protection as well.

Beta blockers like propranolol may compromise athletic performance. If sports are important to you, make sure your doctor is aware of this when prescribing HT meds.

 

[Cmillis]

Beta blockers like propranolol may compromise athletic performance. If sports are important to you, make sure your doctor is aware of this when prescribing HT

once you go on beta blockers it’s very hard to come off due to severe rebound hypertension if you ever decide to discontinue. Everyone I tried killed cardio except labetalol. They use labetalol with pregnant women who have high blood pressure so it seems safer. I have not had any negative cardio performance even though it lowered my pulse rate

exforge is combo drug. 10 mg amlodipine and 320 mg valsartan has worked very good for me. They have a lower dose form too

 

[Bumpygooch]

Beta blockers like propranolol may compromise athletic performance. If sports are important to you, make sure your doctor is aware of this when prescribing HT meds.

I have zero desire to go on anything more than telmisartan(self prescribed), but, now I’m at a week of tachycardia, can’t get below 86bpm. In at 12% bf, cardio 6x/week, weights 5x/week, while I don’t really feel it(aside from a 12hr stretch), it’s not “right.” So, I guess I’m headed back to the cardiologist soon.

 

[strongsafety41]

Fellas,

I understand we’re all trying to be health conscious and hypertension isn’t anything to play around with. I commend everyone for taking the proactive approach to maintain a healthy lifestyle. But remember it was not long ago that the threshold for high BP was >139/89. And that was the baseline for decades prior to the AHA making the change. My point is, be proactive but remember as a doc once told me ... there is a little poison in every medication. Be wise and stay safe.

 

[takkix]

I definitely would try Cialis for BP Management if someone here didn't try it yet - it works extremely well

Supplements to control blood pressure can also be pretty effective. Especially high dosed garlic extract taken multiple times a day. It dilutes the blood pretty well. Studies showed a pretty significant reduce in BP:
"Garlic supplementation appears to reduce blood pressure, and the magnitude is quite respectable in persons with hypertension (around 10 points systolic or 8-10%"

Garlic Supplement — Health Benefits, Dosage, Side Effects

Garlic (Allium sativum) is a food product that can improve immunity and cardiovascular health.

examine.com

Also fish oil

Fish Oil: Summary of Scientific Research

Fish oil is a a source of omega-3 fatty acids. It reduces triglycerides, but does not seem to affect the rate of cardiovascular events. It seems to notably reduce the symptoms of depression and improve some painful, inflammatory conditions.

examine.com

hawthorn can be pretty effective too


And the basic things like Cardio(!), keeping E2 and bodyfat in Range etc.


BP Med wise Telmisartan is a good choice i think. I also plan on taking it in the future, but depending on bp and a pretty low dosage.

What also doesn't seem to really negatively affect athletic performance seems to be nebivolol. Vigorous Steve recommends it:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLFoDOb40x0


I personally have Nebivolol just in case i get problems and i recently started taking propranolol daily(20mg in the evening - i think i will keep doing that on cycle). BP is usually pretty good(~120 / 80, only went a bit up since i added anadrol and i'm at about 130/80 right now. But i'm done with anadrol on monday. Only 2 weeks periods where i use it) and i use it to calm down and give my heart a better break during the night. Since i'm on Tren it became pretty hard to calm down(always in fight or flight mode) and my heart rate also didn't go as low as i wanted it to during the night. Propranolol only has a short half life of about 5-6 hours , so it won't affect me the next day and it definitely helps.

 

[malfeasance]

Yeah, of course. The valsartan is 320mg with 12.5mg of HCTZ. I take one of those.

The amlodipine is 5mg and I take 2 of those for a total of 10mg.

I work nights and I just take the combo before I leave the house. By the 3rd day of taking both my bp had returned to normal.

I’m 6’1 and 250ish lbs now. I also take Adderall everyday (prescribed) but that doesn’t seem to raise it any higher than it already was on the days I didn’t take it. The only side effect I have from the bp meds is occasional forearm cramps (I drive for a living).

amlopidine took over a month to get here. I miss the pre-covid days when pharmacies overseas could get you simple blood pressure meds in 7-10 days.

 

[FlyGuy3232]

Just came here to mention personal experience recently.

I'm 5 weeks into a cycle that is far more mg than I've ever used before.

Generally I start fighting bp as soon as weight goes up and I'm currently up 15 lbs.

This is the first time I've not used Deca (I feel great on it and it really helps leverages, but I also get cystic acne). Well, this is also the first time I haven't had any bp issues at all. In fact my bp has stayed lower than usual even in a caloric surplus.

I'm running Test, Bold, and Mast in equal amounts.

This is just my personal experience but I thought I'd mention that some of us (at least me) can benefit from better compound selection that may keep bp down.

I'll likely run Adrol for the last month or so of this leading up to a meet to help my leverages AND I anticipate I'll be fighting bp with Telmisartan during that time. However, a month of slightly elevated bp is a big improvement for me rather than having to run ace inhibitors that make me feel shitty for three months.

I'm not saying this has to apply to everyone, but it does seem to be working for me.

Bodybuilders have volumization goals that I don't have and I get that. IMO however those goals really are only relevant for the last few weeks leading up to a show during which time one could start NPP, Adrol, Tren Ace, etc to get the volume desired at the time desired. Maaaybe this could result in only fighting bp issues for the last month or few weeks rather than during an entire 16 week cycle.

Just my two cents. I think this approach is working for me and will help keep me safe. It'll probably basically be what I use going forward.

YMMV with Deca etc however.

 

[malfeasance]

One blood pressure reading is not a trend, but 5mg amlopidine added to 80 mg telmisartan appears to have dropped my blood pressure by roughly 10 points (both numbers) after only a couple of days.

We'll see if it continues. It could be just a fluke.

I am prepared to go up to 10mg, which I think is the max.

It will be interesting to see if I now have a way to go ahead and bulk without fear I am doing substantial harm to my cardiovascular system, kidneys, eyes, and so on.

 

[Ferenor]

One blood pressure reading is not a trend, but 5mg amlopidine added to 80 mg telmisartan appears to have dropped my blood pressure by roughly 10 points (both numbers) after only a couple of days.

We'll see if it continues. It could be just a fluke.

I am prepared to go up to 10mg, which I think is the max.

It will be interesting to see if I now have a way to go ahead and bulk without fear I am doing substantial harm to my cardiovascular system, kidneys, eyes, and so on.

What is your blood pressure now ?

 

[malfeasance]

Well, yesterday was 147/81. Today was 136/72.

This is on 1g test, 500 deca, and hgh, no AI at the moment (not for weeks)

It is just one reading. I am in wait-and-see mode.

Also, see post #76.

 

[FlyGuy3232]

I've been in the 120s in the morning for the first time on cycle ever.

Currently on 900mg total gear per week and will be 1200 next month.

Not as aggressive as what you're doing but thought I'd throw it out there.

Plenty can be accomplished with what either of us are doing tho. Far more than natty.

 

[takkix]

Well, yesterday was 147/81. Today was 136/72.

This is on 1g test, 500 deca, and hgh, no AI at the moment (not for weeks)

It is just one reading. I am in wait-and-see mode.

Also, see post #76.

Why don't you use an ai at such high test dosages? Did you get your e2 checked?

If you aromatize pretty normal your estrogen must be sky high. And why not add an ai instead of tons of beta blockers when you can't handle your e2, possibly due to high e2?(at least this could be a plausible scenario)

 

[malfeasance]

Because last time I checked it was low . . . so I backed off for a bit. I'll restart a low amount of AI soon. Keep in mind my blood pressure was higher when I was running an AI just a few weeks ago, so I don't think that's it (higher than today, I mean, but about the same as yesterday). I have run my e2 into the ground (boldenone) and still had high blood pressure.

I go more off frequent blood work than preventive use of AIs.

 

[malfeasance]

Well, yesterday was 147/81. Today was 136/72.

This is on 1g test, 500 deca, and hgh, no AI at the moment (not for weeks)

It is just one reading. I am in wait-and-see mode.

Also, see post #76.

132/67

Again, it is just one more day, one more reading, but I like the trend so far.

 

[combover]

I was 134/86 just now.

I have a bunch of telmisartan. I was reading about it and my concern with me self subscripting this, is coming off it. If I was to take 40mg/day to help with bp, would my body require it moving forward. If I end a cycle, would my bp go back to pre-cycle levels, or would I need to taper off or...?

Cialis, dandelion root and celery seed extract is one thing, not sure about bp meds.

 

[malfeasance]

Well, it depends. If you come off of it, the effect goes away, so your blood pressure reverts. I know plenty of persons who came off of blood pressure meds by losing weight and taking up cardio/endurance training.

 

[combover]

Well, it depends. If you come off of it, the effect goes away, so your blood pressure reverts. I know plenty of persons who came off of blood pressure meds by losing weight and taking up cardio/endurance training.

Gotcha. Just didn't know if I would develop a dependancy. Off cycle and just trt I'm usually good. Only when I add other compounds do things get more troublesome.

 

[malfeasance]

Well, off cycle again, the need for it will go away, if it is the cycle driving up your blood pressure.

Plenty of guys use blood pressure meds only while "on." I am not saying it is right or wrong, just that it is a common practice. You only get one pair of kidneys and eyes and one cardiovascular system, and high blood pressure from steroid usage is not healthy for any of those things. The healthiest option is just to stay on TRT, of course. That is not why most of us are here, though.

 

[combover]

Cool, that's kinda what I thought and was hoping for.

 

[combover]

I read telmisartan takes 1-2 weeks to start working, is that your experience?

How about you @Bumpygooch ?