Blood Pressure

[Deezznutzz]

Get a smart watch that takes BP all day. It will record your average BP which may surprise you how low it is.Its crazy to see how high it goes in rush hour traffic driving.

 

[Bumpygooch]

On 80mg telmisartan, which I take at night. I get ok readings in the morning, like high 130/low 140 over 70. By the evening, the numbers creep upwards, like 150/80. Anyone ever have success split dosing?

 

[lankyOldIdiot]

I don't see anything there about combining it with telmisartan, and please explain that this means for the third generation:
"In addition, thirdgeneration β-blockers exhibit angiogenic, antioxidant, anti-proliferative, anti-hypertrophic and antiapoptotic activities among other effects that are still under investigation."

I was assuming that meant it prevented LVH. Just googling that phrase and you'll see it referencing the heart.

Another suggestion:

telmisartan is combined / sold with hydrochlorothiazide (hctz), very mild diuretic. Look into that if you don't wanna try the beta blocker.

hctz is dirt cheap and well tolerated long term. Can bring the test bloat down and keep a few lbs of water weight off.

From what I've read, typical BB stack:

- ARB
- HCTZ
- 3rd gen beta blocker

on HCTZ:

They may not cancel out exactly and obviously only bloodwork will tell, but often times lisinopril will be given with HCTZ in order to use a lower effective dose of each than a higher single dose, and also to balance out the "tug" that each drug pulls on potassium levels.

If you are considering running an ace inhibitor or ARB or diuretic at a mid dose it may be beneficial to add in the other drug class to help balance your electrolytes out and also keep your BP down

old.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/519iay/the_science_of_diuretics/

 

[Ferenor]

129/60 the latest two weeks, no bp med but a ton of cardio. 7 sessions per week, two 140+ bpm and the other five 120~ bpm.

 

[malfeasance]

I was assuming that meant it prevented LVH. Just googling that phrase and you'll see it referencing the heart.

Another suggestion:

telmisartan is combined / sold with hydrochlorothiazide (hctz), very mild diuretic. Look into that if you don't wanna try the beta blocker.

hctz is dirt cheap and well tolerated long term. Can bring the test bloat down and keep a few lbs of water weight off.

From what I've read, typical BB stack:

- ARB
- HCTZ
- 3rd gen beta blocker

on HCTZ:


old.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/519iay/the_science_of_diuretics/

As for HCTZ, please read the very first post in this thread, and you will see why I do not use it.

 

[lankyOldIdiot]

As for HCTZ, please read the very first post in this thread, and you will see why I do not use it.

Understood. Sorry if I missed it but what is your current BMI?

 

[NBE]

I need to get my bp under control and I’ll use this thread to help keep me accountable

 

[malfeasance]

Understood. Sorry if I missed it but what is your current BMI?

32.5, which is well into the Obese territory (30 and above).

I guess I should add not fat here.

And, yeah, I know that bodyweight can affect blood pressure even without being fat. It is tough to go lose a bunch of muscle that took years (decades, actually) to earn, even though I know I am getting older and need to sooner or later. And I will. Just, well, damn. I like being big and strong.

If I did a serious cut and got shredded for the summer I could drop into the "overweight" category. It would take 20 pounds off to get me into Overweight from Obese.

 

[malfeasance]

I took 9 or 10 months off (I mentioned that earlier, see post #466, and note that was back in October, and I did not touch weights for several more months) and my blood pressure did go down. As soon as I started hitting the gym and eating again, weight started coming back, and as soon as I started a small cycle, I started swelling up again, and damn, it felt good. LOL! Muscle memory.

 

[lankyOldIdiot]

32.5, which is well into the Obese territory (30 and above).

I guess I should add not fat here.

And, yeah, I know that bodyweight can affect blood pressure even without being fat. It is tough to go lose a bunch of muscle that took years (decades, actually) to earn, even though I know I am getting older and need to sooner or later. And I will. Just, well, damn. I like being big and strong.

If I did a serious cut and got shredded for the summer I could drop into the "overweight" category. It would take 20 pounds off to get me into Overweight from Obese.

I'm sure you've thought of it, but there's always trying to maintain single digit BF which should naturally drop off a ton of weight and water retention.

Of course it's a miserable way to live if you're not a genetic freak.

 

[malfeasance]

I've been tracking and eating less calories lately, and dropped an inch off my waist, but single digits? Not sure whether I will go there. We'll see. It is an effort, that is for sure. And unlike some, I am not comfortable there. It makes me want to binge eat.

Thanks for the suggestion, though. I will give it some further thought.

 

[lankyOldIdiot]

I've been tracking and eating less calories lately, and dropped an inch off my waist, but single digits? Not sure whether I will go there. We'll see. It is an effort, that is for sure. And unlike some, I am not comfortable there. It makes me want to binge eat.

Thanks for the suggestion, though. I will give it some further thought.

If you had to assign a percent, what % do you think the high BP is from the drugs and what % from the weight itself?

 

[malfeasance]

If you had to assign a percent, what % do you think the high BP is from the drugs and what % from the weight itself?

I can't assign a percentage, sorry. I am still trying to figure this out just with myself, much less something I could generally to the entire population.

Some of it is just age, LOL! Probably a big percent.

 

[lankyOldIdiot]

I can't assign a percentage, sorry. I am still trying to figure this out just with myself, much less something I could generally to the entire population.

Some of it is just age, LOL! Probably a big percent.

Just my own anecdotal experience but I did find using hctz cures carpal tunnel from GH almost instantly. 25mg of daily (in the context of bulking or maintenance) strips off about 2-4 lbs of water weight that I would normally have.

Makes my lose the bloated "roid" look pretty quickly as well.

But yes, I'm no where near as strong or pumped up without the water bloat. It makes my muscles flat.

 

[readalot]

Does anyone have any references for papers documenting the relationship between blood donation, hematocrit and blood pressure?

Latest work measuring effect of constant volume hemodilution on FMD as close as I have found ...

https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1113/JP280141

All of my research in links below with some original analysis on why the same Hct in different people does not always yield the same whole blood viscosity...

Does High Hematocrit Lead to Complications for Men on TRT?

I plan on using this thread to capture comments/discussion on secondary erythrocytosis from TRT (Hct/viscosity) and cardiovascular risk. Alot of my previous comments/question/posts have been spread over a number of other’s threads. In particular, I’ve seen a number of comments (even interviews...

forums.t-nation.com

Does High Hematocrit Lead to Complications for Men on TRT?

Ever “feel” better after a double red donation? Hot off the press: Acute reductions in hematocrit increase flow‐mediated dilation independent of resting nitric oxide bioavailability in humans Abstract Key points Changes in hematocrit influence nitric oxide signalling through alterations in...

forums.t-nation.com

Hematocrit drives Blood Viscosity- Does that Matter in Men on TRT? Effect of Altitude?

Hi ExcelMale folks, I wanted to start off by expressing my gratitude for this site, all of the amazing work that has been put in to make this place such a great source of information. I would expect no less from a chemical engineer :). I've been following this "debate" about how to properly...

www.excelmale.com

Hematocrit drives Blood Viscosity- Does that Matter in Men on TRT? Effect of Altitude?

Reducing dose and increased my hematocrit.

www.excelmale.com

TRT and Cardiovascular Disease

Testosterone replacement therapy and cardiovascular disease (2022) Jeremy M. Auerbach and Mohit Khera The use of testosterone therapy has a complex history of apprehension and questions regarding its safety. Despite an eventual consensus that testosterone therapy was safe and effective...

www.excelmale.com

At the end of all this (sorry I go on forever) it is the plasma viscosity that plays a key role along with the Hct. And of course few measure that. Pay attention to inflammation and its resultant modification of plasma viscosity in addition to Hct.

Plasma viscosity: a forgotten variable - PubMed

Evaluation of plasma viscosity has been underutilized in the clinical practice. Plasma viscosity is determined by water-content and macromolecular components. Plasma is a highly concentrated protein solution, therefore weak protein-protein interactions can play a role that is not characterized...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Rouzier and his followers in TOT land were/are quite reckless with their blanket statement that erythrocytosis and elevated Hct is harmless and beneficial.

Right up there with the other winner
..."supra T levels are not only beneficial for TRT [sic] but actually required for proper symptom resolution".

SMH for years.


All this would make a nice article similar to the "What is TRT..." stuff contained over at TNation and EM. Somebody has to compensate for all that TOT youtube misinformation.

Perhaps a companion to this nice work:

Anabolic Steroids and Erythrocytosis Polycythemia

The use of anabolic steroids can lead to a condition called erythrocytosis. It’s a condition in which your body has too many erythrocytes, or red blood cells, in its blood.

thinksteroids.com