Blood Pressure

[WeightLossBurn]

I’m 41, on blast right now 600 test only, 8 weeks in. Not feeling too good the last week (super stressful at work). I checked my blood pressure on Thursday it was 171/100. Started taking Telmisartan immediately, down to 140/80 this morning. Also donated blood this morning.

Maybe it’s placebo but I feel so much better especially since giving blood. This is my first experience with high blood pressure since I got clean a few years ago.

I'm around your age. Not taking any PEDs at the moment. Doctor clocked me at 148 last week, which is an improvement from what my monitor typically reads at home.

 

[Jet Labs]

Checked my BP at Shopper's today and it was a WHOPPING 108/72

My home machine usually reads around 115-117/76-82 and when I'm at my doc's office it's always around 110/76 so those sit down machines can be pretty damn accurate.

 

[WeightLossBurn]

Checked my BP at Shopper's today and it was a WHOPPING 108/72

My home machine usually reads around 115-117/76-82 and when I'm at my doc's office it's always around 110/76 so those sit down machines can be pretty damn accurate.

What if you were to take it yesterday after that Jets game?

 

[Jet Labs]

111/73, 63 bpm

 

[WeightLossBurn]

111/73, 63 bpm

140/80, not much easier being a Giants fan

 

[malfeasance]

Avoiding the bodybuilding lifestyle for almost 6 months now. 80mg telmisartan from a doctor's prescription.

This morning. 118/74. So I took it a second time, and a spider dropped down from the ceiling as I was trying to get the reading, 120/75. Resting pulse rate was in the low 80s, though (81 and 83). A knee issue is keeping me from doing cardio right now.

 

[Jurgen]

Found this posted on my fitness pal looks interesting.
breathing training to lower blood pressure.
Fitness blog

 

[lankyOldIdiot]

Yes, my blood pressure spikes with hematocrit rises. I have even had to drain it myself in the past. There is a weird balancing act, though, with iron and hematocrit where you can end up looking anemic from MCH and MCHC low levels even when hematocrit is normal.

Hi @malfeasance. Read this whole thread. Joined just to reply.


I'm a very tall, skinny guy, BMI is only 23. 38 years old. Few years on "trt". I'm fairly lean.

125mg test-e: BP 115/75
250mg test: struggle to come down below 125/80. Face balloons up.
250mg test + low dose deca or tren: high 130s

NO TEST + 750mg deca or tren ace (125mg EOD): 115 bp, do not get big "pumps" or feel juiced. zero water weight gain. Heart rate 55bpm laying in bed. Does not even feel like I'm taking anything. Zero sides.

Is it the estro? On 500mg test I have no gyno issues and never even used an AI. I tried letro and it never brought down weight or BP. HCT/RBC in range.

TLDR; the moment I inject any form of test, I gain huge water weight and BP goes up 20+ points! (Also I look like garbage)

 

[Cherokee]

Hi @malfeasance. Read this whole thread. Joined just to reply.


I'm a very tall, skinny guy, BMI is only 23. 38 years old. Few years on "trt". I'm fairly lean.

125mg test-e: BP 115/75
250mg test: struggle to come down below 125/80. Face balloons up.
250mg test + low dose deca or tren: high 130s

NO TEST + 750mg deca or tren ace (125mg EOD): 115 bp, do not get big "pumps" or feel juiced. zero water weight gain. Heart rate 55bpm laying in bed. Does not even feel like I'm taking anything. Zero sides.

Is it the estro? On 500mg test I have no gyno issues and never even used an AI. I tried letro and it never brought down weight or BP. HCT/RBC in range.

TLDR; the moment I inject any form of test, I gain huge water weight and BP goes up 20+ points! (Also I look like garbage)

Very interesting post

 

[malfeasance]

Hi @malfeasance. Read this whole thread. Joined just to reply.


I'm a very tall, skinny guy, BMI is only 23. 38 years old. Few years on "trt". I'm fairly lean.

125mg test-e: BP 115/75
250mg test: struggle to come down below 125/80. Face balloons up.
250mg test + low dose deca or tren: high 130s

NO TEST + 750mg deca or tren ace (125mg EOD): 115 bp, do not get big "pumps" or feel juiced. zero water weight gain. Heart rate 55bpm laying in bed. Does not even feel like I'm taking anything. Zero sides.

Is it the estro? On 500mg test I have no gyno issues and never even used an AI. I tried letro and it never brought down weight or BP. HCT/RBC in range.

TLDR; the moment I inject any form of test, I gain huge water weight and BP goes up 20+ points! (Also I look like garbage)

That is a very interesting post, but I do not know the answer to your question.

A proper experiment would include raising estrogen, confirmed by blood tests, taking an ai to lower estrogen, again confirmed by blood tests, and seeing the results in each instance. Even then, an experiment of one is very weak evidence, but nevertheless I found your post interesting. Thank you for sharing your personal experience.

I am particularly surprised by 750 a week of tren ace and the blood pressure result.

I have to ask, though, with this many cycles under your belt, why is your BMI only 23? Do you have a terrible diet?

My BMI is 32 after more than half a year out of the gym. It was 34 when I pulled the plug on my silly amateur bodybuilding aspirations.

 

[malfeasance]

I re-read your post. If you were using letrozole with only 500mg of test (did I read that correctly?), and there was no effect on your blood pressure, then it is not the estrogen, right?

Unless your letrozole is fake - only blood testing would tell us your estrogen levels.

But that is the preliminary conclusion I would draw: It is not the estrogen in your case causing a blood pressure increase.

 

[malfeasance]

As to estrogen, however, @lankyOldIdiot - please note the second item in the original post's list of Things That Did Work For Me.

 

[lankyOldIdiot]

I have to ask, though, with this many cycles under your belt, why is your BMI only 23? Do you have a terrible diet?

Spent most of my time on exogenous hormones at 125mg test. It was only a few months ago I thought to try using other compounds without testosterone as typical advice was "Always have double test than tren/deca, bro".

Whenever I tried to add more test or other compounds, the side effects would destroy me so I'd quickly end it after a few weeks.

Also horrible genes for accruing muscle mass and bodybuilding. But I mentioned my low BMI to drive in the point that I was never prone to high blood pressure or a higher heart rate.

I re-read your post. If you were using letrozole with only 500mg of test (did I read that correctly?), and there was no effect on your blood pressure, then it is not the estrogen, right?

Unless your letrozole is fake - only blood testing would tell us your estrogen levels.

But that is the preliminary conclusion I would draw: It is not the estrogen in your case causing a blood pressure increase.

Yes, agreed. Only way to know for sure would be to run higher test, then blood test, then strong AI, then run again. I was too lazy for that.

As to estrogen, however, @lankyOldIdiot - please note the second item in the original post's list of Things That Did Work For Me.

Yes, I've been researching ARBs (telmisartan) and beta blockers (nebivolol).

I had to search reddit for common usage examples. Seems a lot of guys would take 40-80mg telmisartan + 2.5 - 5mg of nebivolol. Some things I've noted. No clue how accurate they are.

- Some claimed telmisartan/nebivolol help bleed off water weight / facial bloat from test.
- A few claims that an ARB + beta blocker had a "synergistic" effect and lowered BP / heart rate much more effectively. That it could also prevent or heal LVH.

- A youtube fitness roid guy (vigorous steve) made a video on him taking 10mg nebivolol to control heart rate and BP while blasting high test


Another reddit quote I found (I did not write this)

That's a good old fashioned myth brother. The old "Deca dick" phenomenon has been linked to an increase in prolactin. Being that 19nors like Deca and Tren are known to raise prolactin you would think that simply increasing the Testosterone dose would counteract it. In reality, all you typically need to do is control your estrogen, specifically your estradiol (E2). Prolactin tends to rise with E2 so if you keep your E2 in check, your prolactin will usually stay in check as well.

In fact, a lot of people are starting to run low-Test cycles with higher doses of Nandrolone or Tren as they're finding that Testosterone can potentiate the unwanted side effects of these compounds. Something like 250mg Test with 500mg Tren or Deca is becoming more common as the lower Test dose seems to reduce the bad side effects from Tren and Deca. I can recall 2 times where I myself ran 250mg Test with 750mg Deca and had no issues and actually felt great because E2 was easier to manage at that dose which kept the side effects down. I'm fully convinced that 90% of the unwanted side effects of AAS are caused or potentiated by Estrogen.

No idea how accurate any of the above information from reddit is, just wanted to share my notes.

Have you ever tried a low or no test cycle + other compounds? Or do you feel you need test to build or maintain muscle?

 

[malfeasance]

134/86 on prescribed telmisartan

Tempted fate, mild cycle with hgh for weeks now . . .

Hmmmm . . .

I don't think that's so bad for being on. I have been keeping up cardio this time.

 

[Bumpygooch]

I’ve been trending up on 700 cyp, 650 primo. Was 139/75 this morning on 80mg telmisartan with 10mg propranolol. Up to 261 this morning. Going to increase cardio to try to reduce a little. Not terrible, would like it a little lower.

 

[lankyOldIdiot]

134/86 on prescribed telmisartan

Tempted fate, mild cycle with hgh for weeks now . . .

Hmmmm . . .

I don't think that's so bad for being on. I have been keeping up cardio this time.

Ever tried nebivolol? Used with telmisartan it can drop your BP and heart rate really low. I added 300mg tren to my low test TRT dose and my BP/resting heart rate is lower than it was pre-tren.

I feel so calm and relaxed using 2.5mg to 5mg per day.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLFoDOb40x0

 

[malfeasance]

Ever tried nebivolol? Used with telmisartan it can drop your BP and heart rate really low. I added 300mg tren to my low test TRT dose and my BP/resting heart rate is lower than it was pre-tren.

I feel so calm and relaxed using 2.5mg to 5mg per day.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLFoDOb40x0

No, I have been scared to try beta blockers. Something about messing with my heart rate unnaturally freaks me out. Plus, some of them increase the risk of heart attacks when you stop taking them (what they call "sudden withdrawal").

 

[malfeasance]

1. Plus I can't find any studies of it. I do find it works with valsartan.

2. Last time I tried two drugs, adding amlodipine messed me up (massive ankle swelling, visual disturbances, it was kind of scary).

 

[lankyOldIdiot]

1. Plus I can't find any studies of it. I do find it works with valsartan.

2. Last time I tried two drugs, adding amlodipine messed me up (massive ankle swelling, visual disturbances, it was kind of scary).

You might be thinking of 2nd generation beta blockers.

Three Generations of β-blockers: History, Class Differences and Clinical Applicability - PubMed

The objective of this review is to describe the evolution observed during the development of the three distinctive generations, thereby highlighting the advantages of third-generation β- blockers over the other two drug classes.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

3rd is much safer and has little side effects.

My personal experience: I'm able to play full court basketball for over an hour and lift weighs without noticing any weakness, while on tren. While bulking.

 

[malfeasance]

You might be thinking of 2nd generation beta blockers.

Three Generations of β-blockers: History, Class Differences and Clinical Applicability - PubMed

The objective of this review is to describe the evolution observed during the development of the three distinctive generations, thereby highlighting the advantages of third-generation β- blockers over the other two drug classes.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

3rd is much safer and has little side effects.

My personal experience: I'm able to play full court basketball for over an hour and lift weighs without noticing any weakness, while on tren. While bulking.

I don't see anything there about combining it with telmisartan, and please explain that this means for the third generation:
"In addition, thirdgeneration β-blockers exhibit angiogenic, antioxidant, anti-proliferative, anti-hypertrophic and antiapoptotic activities among other effects that are still under investigation."