Clenbuterol and Nebivolol - okay to mix?

[Jbagel132]

So I watched this video by Dave Palumbo:


View: https://youtu.be/mFw4FcCt_Eo


Not sure if I’m understanding this correctly, are you not supposed to take Nebivolol while on clen because the clen will be negated? What about telmisartan?

 

[Rido]

So I watched this video by Dave Palumbo:


View: https://youtu.be/mFw4FcCt_Eo


Not sure if I’m understanding this correctly, are you not supposed to take Nebivolol while on clen because the clen will be negated? What about telmisartan?

Good question.
Clen is negated because nevivolol is a beta blocker. Clen is a beta 2 agonist. Telmisartan is an angiotensin receptor blocker.

 

[Jbagel132]

Good question.
Clen is negated because nevivolol is a beta blocker. Clen is a beta 2 agonist. Telmisartan is an angiotensin receptor blocker.

You’re a smart guy, glad to have you here bro! I’m currently taking 80mg/day telmisartan and 5mg/day Nebivolol, but planning on a 2 week clen run the second half of august. So when i start it, drop the Nebivolol and maybe up the telmisartan to 120mg/day?

 

[Rido]

You’re a smart guy, glad to have you here bro! I’m currently taking 80mg/day telmisartan and 5mg/day Nebivolol, but planning on a 2 week clen run the second half of august. So when i start it, drop the Nebivolol and maybe up the telmisartan to 120mg/day?

Thanks man. I remember when I was still new learning about giving metoprolol and albuterol it causing issues.
Pretty much same concept
Beta blocker and beta 2 agonist.


I would probably stop the nebivolol couple days prior tbh.

question. why are you running both? are you having issues controlling your BP or was it doctor prescribed?

Max dose of telmisartan is 120mg. I am not too familiar with combination of BP meds though. let me take a look.

I would have to look at combinations of amlodipine and see if there are any issues with it too. Hydrochlorothiazide at a low dose may not be a bad thought

 

[Jbagel132]

Thanks man. I remember when I was still new learning about giving metoprolol and albuterol it causing issues.
Pretty much same concept
Beta blocker and beta 2 agonist.


I would probably stop the nebivolol couple days prior tbh.

question. why are you running both? are you having issues controlling your BP or was it doctor prescribed?

Max dose of telmisartan is 120mg. I am not too familiar with combination of BP meds though. let me take a look

I am running both because yeah my BP is pretty crazy on Tren and I do cardio like it’s going out of style and am already sub-10% BF, so I run both to get the benefits of both an ARB and the beta blocker. Right now my BP is averaging 125/80. But if I’m understanding clen correctly, it also lowers BP so maybe I wouldn’t need to increase the telmisartan.

 

[Type-IIx]

Yes, the two can be used in combination (and serves to prevent potential cardiomyocyte apoptosis / cardiac toxicity that clen may induce by presynaptic catecholamine release that causes damage via a β1-specific mechanism). Nebivolol can stand in the place of bisoprolol or metoprolol as discussed in Clenbuterol focus: Practical Research on Clen & Beta2- Adrenergic Compounds, Protocols
and is in fact superior (because of its vasodilatory effects on NO & decreasing vascular resistance). It also makes sense for hypertensive & those with high resting heart rate long-term users of rhGH (due to elevated IGF-I decreasing eNOS mRNA expression & inducing long-term endothelial dysfunction).

 

[Rido]

Yes, the two can be used in combination (and serves to prevent potential cardiomyocyte apoptosis / cardiac toxicity that clen may induce by presynaptic catecholamine release that causes damage via a β1-specific mechanism). Nebivolol can stand in the place of bisoprolol or metoprolol as discussed in Clenbuterol focus: Practical Research on Clen & Beta2- Adrenergic Compounds, Protocols
and is in fact superior (because of its vasodilatory effects on NO & decreasing vascular resistance). It also makes sense for hypertensive & those with high resting heart rate long-term users of rhGH (due to elevated IGF-I decreasing eNOS mRNA expression & inducing long-term endothelial dysfunction).

very interesting to read!

Guess it goes against typical medical practice but in medical practice the goal is very different than hypertrophy and most likely used for asthma and COPD. It is not typically associated with prevention of cardiac issues from high dose clen.

I guess even then there is no true contraindication now.

Impact of beta2-agonists, beta-blockers, and their combination on cardiac function in elderly male patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease - PMC

This study was undertaken to determine the association between cardiac function and therapy with beta2-adrenoceptor agonists (β2-agonists), β-blockers, or β-blocker–β-agonist combination therapy in elderly male patients with chronic obstructive ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Jbagel132]

Yes, the two can be used in combination (and serves to prevent potential cardiomyocyte apoptosis / cardiac toxicity that clen may induce by presynaptic catecholamine release that causes damage via a β1-specific mechanism). Nebivolol can stand in the place of bisoprolol or metoprolol as discussed in Clenbuterol focus: Practical Research on Clen & Beta2- Adrenergic Compounds, Protocols
and is in fact superior (because of its vasodilatory effects on NO & decreasing vascular resistance). It also makes sense for hypertensive & those with high resting heart rate long-term users of rhGH (due to elevated IGF-I decreasing eNOS mRNA expression & inducing long-term endothelial dysfunction).

But in the video, Dave mentions that beta blockers negate the fat loss effects of clen? Would this NOT include Nebivolol, and if so, why?

 

[Type-IIx]

But in the video, Dave mentions that beta blockers negate the fat loss effects of clen? Would this NOT include Nebivolol, and if so, why?

Dave's retarded because I've never seen him actually be correct with respect to any subject he's discussed that I've seen shared here.

Clen is a β2 agonist (analogous to terbutaline) & nebivolol is a selective β1 antagonist. See:

A comparison of the beta1-selectivity of three beta1-selective beta-blockers - PubMed

The beta1-selectivity of three different beta1-blockers has been demonstrated in healthy volunteers using the blocking of biochemical and haemodynamic responses to a beta2 stimulus. Terbutaline alone caused an increase in heart rate, a rise in systolic blood pressure, a fall in serum potassium...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The beta1-selectivity of three different beta1-blockers has been demonstrated in healthy volunteers using the blocking of biochemical and haemodynamic responses to a beta2 stimulus. Terbutaline alone caused an increase in heart rate, a rise in systolic blood pressure, a fall in serum potassium and a rise in both serum glucose and insulin. In this study, for both haemodynamic and biochemical responses, atenolol 100 mg had the greatest beta2-blocking effect, nebivolol 5 mg the least. Bisoprolol 10 mg and atenolol 50 mg had intermediate effects; bisoprolol was the more beta1-selective of these two."

 

[Jbagel132]

Dave's retarded because I've never seen him actually be correct with respect to any subject he's discussed that I've seen shared here.

Clen is a β2 agonist (analogous to terbutaline) & nebivolol is a selective β1 antagonist. See:

A comparison of the beta1-selectivity of three beta1-selective beta-blockers - PubMed

The beta1-selectivity of three different beta1-blockers has been demonstrated in healthy volunteers using the blocking of biochemical and haemodynamic responses to a beta2 stimulus. Terbutaline alone caused an increase in heart rate, a rise in systolic blood pressure, a fall in serum potassium...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The beta1-selectivity of three different beta1-blockers has been demonstrated in healthy volunteers using the blocking of biochemical and haemodynamic responses to a beta2 stimulus. Terbutaline alone caused an increase in heart rate, a rise in systolic blood pressure, a fall in serum potassium and a rise in both serum glucose and insulin. In this study, for both haemodynamic and biochemical responses, atenolol 100 mg had the greatest beta2-blocking effect, nebivolol 5 mg the least. Bisoprolol 10 mg and atenolol 50 mg had intermediate effects; bisoprolol was the more beta1-selective of these two."

“Nebivolol 5 mg had the least” - doesn’t this mean that it still had somewhat of a beta2-blocking effect, or is it negligible to where the effects would not be noticed? Sorry I don’t mean to be picky just trying to get the most out of the plethora of pharmacology I’m cranking into myself this summer!

 

[Type-IIx]

“Nebivolol 5 mg had the least” - doesn’t this mean that it still had somewhat of a beta2-blocking effect, or is it negligible to where the effects would not be noticed? Sorry I don’t mean to be picky just trying to get the most out of the plethora of pharmacology I’m cranking into myself this summer!

It's absolutely negligible with nebivolol, outstandingly so, among other selective beta1-antagonists that are themselves negligible in their effects on clen potency.

 

[Deezznutzz]

So clen and telamasatan/htz ok to take? Haven't had any issues yet.

 

[Jbagel132]

It's absolutely negligible with nebivolol, outstandingly so, among other selective beta1-antagonists that are themselves negligible in their effects on clen potency.

Thanks for the valuable information, you are such a great asset here at at MESO! I read a lot about clen raising your pulse and causing heart palpitations, will Nebivolol help to counteract these sides?

Also, as far as actual blood pressure goes, doesn’t clen itself lower it?

 

[Type-IIx]

Thanks for the valuable information, you are such a great asset here at at MESO! I read a lot about clen raising your pulse and causing heart palpitations, will Nebivolol help to counteract these sides?

Also, as far as actual blood pressure goes, doesn’t clen itself lower it?

Clen does not lower blood pressure. As a sympathomimetic, it tends to increase heart rate, blood pressure, etc. These effects do seem to rapidly taper off due to (likely central) adaptation.

Though if you look through the linked Clenbuterol focus practical research post above, you'll note that rates of tachycardia were low (2 out of 82, 2.4%; 40 mcg daily).

There were no reported significant BP changes in clinical trials.

Elevations to pulse & heart palpitations are usually innocuous. What are more concerning are the asymptomatic or imperceptible cardiac states such as slow wave ventricular tachycardia that can (in rare instances, but significant) be induced by clen.

Nebivolol's rational use with clen is preventing cardiac toxicity at high doses. It attaches with all the standard concerns about beta-blockers; should be taken away from training due to reduced SNS output, affecting effort; combine unfavorably with ARBs/ACE inhibitors (reducing renin output); generally just make people hypotensive and feel weak).

 

[Jbagel132]

Clen does not lower blood pressure. As a sympathomimetic, it tends to increase heart rate, blood pressure, etc. These effects do seem to rapidly taper off due to (likely central) adaptation.

Though if you look through the linked Clenbuterol focus practical research post above, you'll note that rates of tachycardia were low (2 out of 82, 2.4%; 40 mcg daily).

There were no reported significant BP changes in clinical trials.

Elevations to pulse & heart palpitations are usually innocuous. What are more concerning are the asymptomatic or imperceptible cardiac states such as slow wave ventricular tachycardia that can (in rare instances, but significant) be induced by clen.

Nebivolol's rational use with clen is preventing cardiac toxicity at high doses. It attaches with all the standard concerns about beta-blockers; should be taken away from training due to reduced SNS output, affecting effort; combine unfavorably with ARBs/ACE inhibitors (reducing renin output); generally just make people hypotensive and feel weak).

So if I’m understanding this correctly, if anything, it’s PREFERABLE to be taking Nebivolol while on Clen? Because obviously Nebivolol lowers blood pressure as that is what it’s intended for, but it can also reduce heart rate, correct?

One last thing sir, to what extent is Clen hepatoxic? So long as I am taking a gram of TUDCA per day, would you frown upon me running 20mg/day of Accutane? Currently hovering around 83-84kg bodyweight.

 

[Type-IIx]

So if I’m understanding this correctly, if anything, it’s PREFERABLE to be taking Nebivolol while on Clen? Because obviously Nebivolol lowers blood pressure as that is what it’s intended for, but it can also reduce heart rate, correct?

One last thing sir, to what extent is Clen hepatoxic? So long as I am taking a gram of TUDCA per day, would you frown upon me running 20mg/day of Accutane? Currently hovering around 83-84kg bodyweight.

Hm, absolutely not my understanding. I don't think it's preferable to take nebivolol while on clen (I don't think you should ever take antihypertensive meds without been chronically hypertensive).

If one is hypertensive, and using high dose clen (I know I haven't specified what that is; but it's clearly more than 80 mcg daily, given the clen research post), it serves an additional rationale: preventing cardiotoxicity.

Clen's not hepatotoxic.

All you need to know is in the Clen research thread, review that please.

 

[Jbagel132]

@Type-IIx should clen be taken sublingually for better absorption?

 

[GRINGOMICK]

OK. New here but not to the game. I have read extensively about beta 1 blockers and Clen. I use Atenolol and Telsm to control hypertension. I have heard the hearsay, opinions, etc.

I have a cut coming up in April/May and already have purchased the clen (25mcg tabs). Reading here and from some of the online info, that nebivolol is better than atenolol in regards to being a more selective beta 1 blocker (although atenolol claims to be 100% selective).

I have already tried it out for 5 days and I split the 25mcg tab in half for the first day. Felt a little strange. No racing heart beat but light headed.
-Second day. same- half tab
-Third day half tab in the morning and afternoon the second half to complete the 25mcg dose. Felt a little light headed for an hour
-Fourth day took 25mcg and then another second half a tab. Light headed and my diastolic BP was getting low. Like almost down to 60.
-Fifth day I did the same and my diastolic BP went under 60 which I know is not cool. I was 111/57. Never has my BP been that low.

Anyway, I would like to hear some real life cases of clen working or not working with selective beta 1 blockers. I believe that my electrolytes may have been imbalanced but would like to hear from the crew here what may have been causing the low BP and how to counter correct for my cutting phase in April/May

 

[connoristiny]

What's your cycle?

 

[GRINGOMICK]

What's your cycle?

300mg (1ml) pin of Deca on Monday and 300mg (1ml) pin of Boldenone on Thursday. Been doing this for the last 2 months and now.

I just ran out of Deca, didn't like it anyhow, so coach recommended 350mg test and keep on the Bolderone at the same dose. That I will be starting Monday.

I also take a wide range of supplements. (picture attached of what I take)
-B complex
-Milk Thistle
-Calcium
-Maga
-Garlic
-Enzymes
-Omega 3s
-Glucosamine/condroiten
-Bacilos
-N-Acetyl Cystneine
-Co q10
-Centrum Multi Vit.