Clenbuterol + Ketotifen Questions

[PLer1290]

Hey I have a few questions about clenbuterol and ketotifen. Trust me I've done a ton of research but haven't found a clear answer.

1. When are you supposed to add in the ketotifen to your cycle? I hear 2 things: every 3rd week take the keto + clen OR start taking the keto starting week 2. Which one have you used successfully?

2. I'm currently at the end of my third week of the clen and started taking 2mg of ketotifen every night and I still don't feel the clen working. I'm still a little shakey but my temperature is back down to normal. What should I do to make the clen start working again?

 

[dfein]

Never found clen to work even though it makes me sweat like hell. Ephedra does seem to work but without flattening out the muscles like clen. T3 probably does work, but it's so stupid to use. I'm betting clen doesn't drop any bodyfat without the use of T3.

 

[PLer1290]

Well I am using T3 too actually.

 

[dfein]

Well if you aren't on any AAS and on Clen AND T3, it's probably completely eating away at a bunch of muscle tissue, but I just happen to notice that clen just makes muscle flat and eventually makes muscle possibly smaller, though that could be just because it makes the muscles flat. Obviously T3 works because people with hyperthyroidism lose a bunch of bodyfat, but they lose their muscle too. The weight loss sector is a multi(billion?) dollar industry and there is no pharmaceutical equivalent of clenbuterol, but there are several of ephedrine. You have to use ketotifen 2mg twice per day in order to get it to work.

 

[toothache]

I've always taken ketotifen at the end of the 2nd week of clen. I dose it at 1mg/day until completely done with cycle.

 

[Conciliator]

I'm betting clen doesn't drop any bodyfat without the use of T3.

You'd lose the bet. In addition, clen increases muscle mass.

You have to use ketotifen 2mg twice per day in order to get it to work.

You don't have to take 4mg a day. Research has shown that 1mg, taken 1-2 times per day, is sufficient to reverse beta-2 desensitization.

 

[dfein]

You'd lose the bet. In addition, clen increases muscle mass.
You don't have to take 4mg a day. Research has shown that 1mg, taken 1-2 times per day, is sufficient to reverse beta-2 desensitization.

For some reason I'd knew you come in here. I'll tell you right now. I used clen at 1mg per day.

 

[PLer1290]

So how do I know if then clen is still working? Temperature, shakes, or what?

 

[dfein]

Ketotifen works, but I found it causes me to gain weight for some reason. They experimentally use it to stop weight loss in sick people. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's a TNF-a antagonist. TNF-a works for weight loss. It's a naturally occurring cytokine. But Ketotifen works, and Bendryl does not. In fact, Ketotifen works so well, you can get Clen shakes from Ephedra. You don't even need to use Ketotifen in my opinion. Just keep titrating the dose up. Even though the shakes and the sweating are going away, it's still working. Of course, like I said, it's not even worth it. I used it up to 1mg per day, and that's the only dose that really brought on the weight loss, and it made me look like shit. Ephedrine works at 30mg a day, brings on steady weight loss and is much safer and doesn't cause atrophy.

 

[Conciliator]

For some reason I'd knew you come in here. I'll tell you right now. I used clen at 1mg per day.

Of course you did. I mean, who hasn't taken clen at 1mg (1000 mcg) per day? lol

 

[Conciliator]

Ketotifen works, but I found it causes me to gain weight for some reason.

Maybe because a well known side effect is appetite stimulation?

 

[PLer1290]

Ketotifen works, but I found it causes me to gain weight for some reason. They experimentally use it to stop weight loss in sick people. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's a TNF-a antagonist. TNF-a works for weight loss. It's a naturally occurring cytokine. But Ketotifen works, and Bendryl does not. In fact, Ketotifen works so well, you can get Clen shakes from Ephedra. You don't even need to use Ketotifen in my opinion. Just keep titrating the dose up. Even though the shakes and the sweating are going away, it's still working. Of course, like I said, it's not even worth it. I used it up to 1mg per day, and that's the only dose that really brought on the weight loss, and it made me look like shit. Ephedrine works at 30mg a day, brings on steady weight loss and is much safer and doesn't cause atrophy.

You really used clen at 1000mg per day? That wasn't a typo? How is that not an overdose?

 

[dfein]

Yes, I titrated it up to 1000mcg per day. I didn't sleep for 3 days straight. The shakes and sweating were gone. The heart felt fine. And yes it was real Clen. What happened was that everything basically shrunk. Muscle and fat shrunk. I lost about a half pound every day. Calfs and Quads were ripped but everything else looked disgusting. Just dead. I suppose this is why bikers are trying to dope with it, but still, it kils your endurance.

 

[dfein]

Maybe because a well known side effect is appetite stimulation?

You're silly. Do you seriously think I would risk taking 1mg of Clenbuterol and then start to gorge on more food?

 

[Conciliator]

YDo you seriously think I would risk taking 1mg of Clenbuterol and then start to gorge on more food?

Gorging on a bunch of food would be the least of the surprises. You just got done telling us how you took 1000 mcg per day of clen.

 

[ergomaniac]

if you were able to dose clen high, and it had a 36h half life, wouldnt 1000mcg in the blood be an eventual reality if you dosed daily? higher doses build muscles. yes?

 

[bigollie2006]

Yes, I titrated it up to 1000mcg per day. I didn't sleep for 3 days straight. The shakes and sweating were gone. The heart felt fine. And yes it was real Clen. What happened was that everything basically shrunk. Muscle and fat shrunk. I lost about a half pound every day. Calfs and Quads were ripped but everything else looked disgusting. Just dead. I suppose this is why bikers are trying to dope with it, but still, it kils your endurance.

I can't help but think there is an easy way. Call me crazy

 

[dfein]

if you were able to dose clen high, and it had a 36h half life, wouldnt 1000mcg in the blood be an eventual reality if you dosed daily? higher doses build muscles. yes?

Yes, in reality there was actually more than 1mg in my system. It's not anabolic. In my opinion what it does is just cause fiber switching in certain parts of the body. You'll find some newer journals citing that there is not much interest in beta-2 agonists in cachexia.

 

[Conciliator]

It's not anabolic.

Yes, it is. Anabolic/anti-catabolic effects have been shown numerous times in humans, corroborating a lot of animal data.

This paper was pretty explicit, titled "Clenbuterol increases lean muscle mass but not endurance in patients with chronic heart failure." They found that "Clenbuterol was well tolerated and led to a significant increase in both lean mass and the lean/fat ratio."

In another human study, they slowly titrated the dose of clen by 20mcg/wk for three months. They found that "clenbuterol therapy increased skeletal muscle mass and strength."

The same effect has been found with short-acting beta-2 agonists like albuterol:

This study, titled "Oral albuterol dosing during the latter stages of a resistance exercise program" found that "A higher lean body mass trend also occurred with albuterol from weeks 10-13."

Finally, this study give albuterol for 12 weeks to boys with muscular dystrophy. Outcome measurements included lean body mass and fat mass. They found that "Lean body mass was significantly higher for subjects following albuterol treatment compared to placebo treatment, while fat mass was significantly lower."

Finally, this effect has also been found with the use of general (beta) adrenergic agonsits like ephedrine:

This study in obese women found that after 8 weeks of EC administration, the EC group lost 9.9 lbs more body fat and 6.2 lbs less fat-free mass. "These findings provide evidence that promotion of fat loss and preservation of FFM during weight reduction may also be achieved pharmacologically in humans."

This more extensive study stated "We conclude that the ephedrine/caffeine combination is effective in improving and maintaining weight loss, further it has lean body mass saving properties."

While there is definitely more evidence in animals showing anabolic/anti-catabolic effects from beta-agonists, there is plenty of evidence supporting the existence of the same effect in human skeletal muscle.

As usual, dfein doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[tballz]

Yes, it is. Anabolic/anti-catabolic effects have been shown numerous times in humans, corroborating a lot of animal data.

This paper was pretty explicit, titled "Clenbuterol increases lean muscle mass but not endurance in patients with chronic heart failure." They found that "Clenbuterol was well tolerated and led to a significant increase in both lean mass and the lean/fat ratio."

In another human study, they slowly titrated the dose of clen by 20mcg/wk for three months. They found that "clenbuterol therapy increased skeletal muscle mass and strength."

The same effect has been found with short-acting beta-2 agonists like albuterol:

This study, titled "Oral albuterol dosing during the latter stages of a resistance exercise program" found that "A higher lean body mass trend also occurred with albuterol from weeks 10-13."

Finally, this study give albuterol for 12 weeks to boys with muscular dystrophy. Outcome measurements included lean body mass and fat mass. They found that "Lean body mass was significantly higher for subjects following albuterol treatment compared to placebo treatment, while fat mass was significantly lower."

Finally, this effect has also been found with the use of general (beta) adrenergic agonsits like ephedrine:

This study in obese women found that after 8 weeks of EC administration, the EC group lost 9.9 lbs more body fat and 6.2 lbs less fat-free mass. "These findings provide evidence that promotion of fat loss and preservation of FFM during weight reduction may also be achieved pharmacologically in humans."

This more extensive study stated "We conclude that the ephedrine/caffeine combination is effective in improving and maintaining weight loss, further it has lean body mass saving properties."

While there is definitely more evidence in animals showing anabolic/anti-catabolic effects from beta-agonists, there is plenty of evidence supporting the existence of the same effect in human skeletal muscle.

As usual, dfein doesn't know what he's talking about.

Awesome.....great stuff. Thanks for those studies.