johnnyBALLZ
Well-known Member
That's what I've read many times, I'd like to see him chime in here.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Darius Pharmacom Test-E Bloodwork (underdosed a bit)
- Thread starter emcomfu
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That's what I've read many times, I'd like to see him chime in here.
inforthegains
New Member
Def.
And I remember the graph he posted not that long ago where serum concentration peaked at T+8 but I can't remember which ester (thought it was E...but maybe it was just suspension, and I'm remembering poorly), and yet here and elsewhere there are tons of recommendations to pull bloods @ 36-72 h...
Just tried to find that post but couldn't yet, I'll dig around a bit more.
emcomfu
Member
I directly asked this earlier. So according to this I've always been around 16x? I guess I metabolize really well huh? According to these results I am 12x. Still below what I am using pharma grade test.
This is why it's hard for me to buy in. I get the concept, but my labs beg to differ. If this is the case "last pinned dosage" then my labs from split doses during a cycle are consistently WELL above 10X.
I think you and I are thinking of the same graph. It was serum levels of a single injection of test e and peak levels were at 10hrs post injection I believe.
Here is an example:
I ran 1 injection front load of test e (750mg).
test prop 3 times per wk of 150mg, and test cyp 1 time per wk of 200mg.
23 days later I had labs done. I think it was 48hrs after the last pin of prop and 72hrs after last pin of cyp. My weekly avg of test (all esters) was 650mg. My TT was 6900ng.
How can we explain this under the "last pinned" scenario?
I ran 1 injection front load of test e (750mg).
test prop 3 times per wk of 150mg, and test cyp 1 time per wk of 200mg.
23 days later I had labs done. I think it was 48hrs after the last pin of prop and 72hrs after last pin of cyp. My weekly avg of test (all esters) was 650mg. My TT was 6900ng.
How can we explain this under the "last pinned" scenario?
You can't. You're mixing esters and testing past the time Jim mentioned so your results will vary wildly from the "rule". Also I'm not defending the rule per se, I don't know enough about it, I'm just explaining things from the "rule's" perspective.
inforthegains
New Member
yep that sounds like the one. if I can find it again I'll link the post
I can't find the study or the post and I've looked for both. Please post them if you find them
I know you're not defending it Doc. I'm not attacking it either. We're all just trying to gain an understanding. Thanks for clarifying, mixing esters is a no go.
I think one factor not many ppl give thought to is total blood volume in each person. I know the differences aren't gallons of blood but remember blood levels are a measure of concentration of test for example per unit volume of blood. If you shoot 200mg test and get blood levels of 2000ng/dl hypothetically and then did the same exact thing immediately after donating blood let's say or losing a substantial amount of blood somehow you'd have a pretty noticeable difference in blood levels using the same gear, same testing protocol, same pin locations, same person just less blood. Does that make sense? I'm typing quickly
johnnyBALLZ
Well-known Member
Agreed, that's one of the reasons why it's 7-10x not a hard and fast rule 10x as Scally said once. There are a lot of variables but it's a pretty good guideline IMO.
Makes sense. Blood volume /concentration definitely plays a part. In lay term ... Ever tried drinking a beer after donating blood. It plays a part. Same thing with testosterone and blood volume.
I will not name the lab, but the case was that I thought I am getting 600mg/week. And then the UGL confirmed they made a huge mistake and the whole batch was actually 100mg/mL. Anyway, I have seen the same result with pharma Test 250mg/week split into two injections. Unfortunately my lab caps at 1500ng/dL though.
Not with beer but I made he mistake of drinking wine after donating so yes, I know exactly what you're talking about hahahaha
Okay, pal.
If people would pin there AAS as done for TRT every 5-7 days this whole discussion would be mute!
If you pin any AAS after a few days the PEAK value is NO LONGER a PEAK value, but a plateau!
The ten times rule is has always been based on PEAK values rather the SUM of a PLATEAU and a PEAK (in the case of "adding split doses) somehow believing the level obtained is the equivalent of a SINGLE PEAK using the same dose.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
Are people suggesting for some unknown reason the TT from the first of two doses, in a split dose regime, just sits around avoiding metabolism, catabolism, excretion and/or dispersal throughout it's volume of distribution!
Guys it just doesn't work out the way and the net effect of adding split doses WILL falsely lower the TT LEVEL, as compared to a SINGLE injection using the same dose and dosing interval.
The bottom line to obtain the most reliable results from the 10 X rule the pinning should be conducted every 5-7 days.
The latter is based on TRT studies and once people decide to leave the farm bro science is just around the corner.
If you pin any AAS after a few days the PEAK value is NO LONGER a PEAK value, but a plateau!
The ten times rule is has always been based on PEAK values rather the SUM of a PLATEAU and a PEAK (in the case of "adding split doses) somehow believing the level obtained is the equivalent of a SINGLE PEAK using the same dose.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
Are people suggesting for some unknown reason the TT from the first of two doses, in a split dose regime, just sits around avoiding metabolism, catabolism, excretion and/or dispersal throughout it's volume of distribution!
Guys it just doesn't work out the way and the net effect of adding split doses WILL falsely lower the TT LEVEL, as compared to a SINGLE injection using the same dose and dosing interval.
The bottom line to obtain the most reliable results from the 10 X rule the pinning should be conducted every 5-7 days.
The latter is based on TRT studies and once people decide to leave the farm bro science is just around the corner.
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I assume short esters are slightly different??
