Darius Pharmacom Test-E Bloodwork (underdosed a bit)

[Dr JIM]

Dr JIM writes such BS. I think he should stop preaching that theory that makes underdosed gear look good.

I did 200mg/week of Test-E split into two injections. I did a blood test 72h after the last injection. Test serum levels came back at > 1500ng/dL.

Hey FUCK OFF SHILL, if you can post a single study that contradicts me then do so otherwise place your foot back in your mouth where it obviously belongs Bozo!

 

[Dr JIM]

I assume short esters are slightly different??

I suspect so also BUT they have not been studied and once we enter into an area of conjecture and supposition we leave the door WIDE OPEN for little dip shit shills like NFRCR above.

 

[Burrr]

It has not happened in a long time, but I find myself having to agree with Jim.

 

[inforthegains]

So @Dr JIM, when I see ~2500 ng/dL TT after a biweekly 250mg pin on a 500mg/wk dose

this is gtg?

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Are people suggesting for some unknown reason the TT from the first of two doses, in a split dose regime, just sits around avoiding metabolism, catabolism, excretion and/or dispersal throughout it's volume of distribution!

Guys it just doesn't work out the way and the net effect of adding split doses WILL falsely lower the TT LEVEL, as compared to a SINGLE injection using the same dose and dosing interval.

I think that is exactly what people aren't getting.

I don't have access to Autocad at the moment so I quickly drew this graph up in MS Paint. The graph is just a rough drawing and is not to scale but should help convey the pharmacokinetics.

Red represents the peak and nadir TT levels for once a week dosing and black represents the peak and nadir for 1/2 dose twice a week. Total weekly dose is the same for both dosing regimens and user is at steady state.

As you can see, a full weekly dose results in a higher peak TT and lower nadir than divided doses. Half a dose given twice weekly results lower peaks than full doses given once weekly, but higher nadir levels. Obviously, the lower peak from twice weekly dosing will have a negative impact on the 10X rule. Again, graph is NOT to scale.

Divided doses also result in less fluctuation in serum TT.

I hope this graph makes sense.

 

[viking23]

Single weekly injections will create larger (maximum) peaks in blood levels but it will also cause lower (minimum) peaks prior to each pin.

Biweekly will not have as high of a plateau peak but it will cause your body to run at a more consistent level. This is because the range between (Max & minimum) peaks is much smaller where the range in single injections per week will be much larger. (Range= the numeral difference between each Max peak and minimum peak "M-m=R")

This is just my understanding which could be off lol!

 

[NFRCR]

Hey FUCK OFF SHILL, if you can post a single study that contradicts me then do so otherwise place your foot back in your mouth where it obviously belongs Bozo!

You and your studies which go into conflict with real-world data and at the same time justify labs underdosing their products.

I recently saw a blood test. The guy was on 500mg/week Test-E, split into two injections. Blood was drawn 72 hours after the last injection. Anyway blood serum level came back at a bit over 5000ng/dL. Quite high, the Test-E was probably dosed a little higher. Anyway, since the last injection was 250mg or a bit more and serum level was 5000ng/dL, it is totally impossible to apply your 10X LAST PIN rule here.

Now I bet you will reply that the Test-E was probably overdosed at 500mg/mL. LOL.

 

[rpbb]

You and your studies which go into conflict with real-world data and at the same time justify labs underdosing their products.

I recently saw a blood test. The guy was on 500mg/week Test-E, split into two injections. Blood was drawn 72 hours after the last injection. Anyway blood serum level came back at a bit over 5000ng/dL. Quite high, the Test-E was probably dosed a little higher. Anyway, since the last injection was 250mg or a bit more and serum level was 5000ng/dL, it is totally impossible to apply your 10X LAST PIN rule here.

Now I bet you will reply that the Test-E was probably overdosed at 500mg/mL. LOL.

I believe all that it tells you is that everyone is different, keep saying that, but it falls on deaf ears

 

[inforthegains]

I believe all that it tells you is that everyone is different, keep saying that, but it falls on deaf ears

So I mean, how worthwhile are bloods then, really..?

Someone can get 2.5k and someone else can get 4.5k on the same cycle, gear, and bw protocol?

Then what?

 

[rpbb]

So I mean, how worthwhile are bloods then, really..?

Someone can get 2.5k and someone else can get 4.5k on the same cycle, gear, and bw protocol?

Then what?

my take on that is to look what results you are getting in the gym, don't seem to hear alot about that

 

[Wunderpus]

my take on that is to look what results you are getting in the gym, don't seem to hear alot about that

Minus all the health benefits of the bloods (risk prevention) and knowing you're more or less taking properly dosed gear....

Yeah, what's the point of those goofy bloods?! Why do doctors ever want to review bloods, it should all be based on how you feel and look!

No one has EVER been effected be the placebo effect....


Do you see what happens when we start to discount the value of bloodwork?

 

[rpbb]

Minus all the health benefits of the bloods (risk prevention) and knowing you're more or less taking properly dosed gear....

Yeah, what's the point of those goofy bloods?! Why do doctors ever want to review bloods, it should all be based on how you feel and look!

No one has EVER been effected be the placebo effect....


Do you see what happens when we start to discount the value of bloodwork?

Bloodwork is extremely important, and everyone should be doing it. but trying to fit a one size fits formula for test levels, rbc counts, and estrogen is impossible. That's why doctors are always adjusting dosage levels when starting people on medications

 

[Wunderpus]

Bloodwork is extremely important, and everyone should be doing it. but trying to fit a one size fits formula for test levels, rbc counts, and estrogen is impossible. That's why doctors are always adjusting dosage levels when starting people on medications

my take on that is to look what results you are getting in the gym, don't seem to hear alot about that

 

[inforthegains]

Minus all the health benefits of the bloods (risk prevention) and knowing you're more or less taking properly dosed gear....

Yeah, what's the point of those goofy bloods?! Why do doctors ever want to review bloods, it should all be based on how you feel and look!

No one has EVER been effected be the placebo effect....


Do you see what happens when we start to discount the value of bloodwork?

No of course that was not my intent in my post, to discount bloods entirely. Not at all. I am here on Meso for the bloods.

But in light of what I keep reading, especially in this thread, I am wondering if the TT measurement is as important as it is always made out to be, if individual variance can have such a huge effect on it.

 

[Wunderpus]

No of course that was not my intent in my post, to discount bloods entirely. Not at all. I am here on Meso for the bloods.

But in light of what I keep reading, especially in this thread, I am wondering if the TT measurement is as important as it is always made out to be, if individual variance can have such a huge effect on it.

Of course it does. If you have baseline, a mid-cycle and a post-cycle measurements, you can keep track of your personal levels. Once you've done a few cycles, you should have a good idea of where your TT should be mid-cycle.

 

[inforthegains]

Of course it does. If you have baseline, a mid-cycle and a post-cycle measurements, you can keep track of your personal levels. Once you've done a few cycles, you should have a good idea of where your TT should be mid-cycle.

I'm speaking not in the context of tracking personal levels but in the context of using mid-cycle bw TT to validate the dosage of whatever PG or (especially) UGL one is running.

So basically it takes multiple cycles and comparing your mid-cycle TT levels between each cycle to gauge the dosage of each in comparison to their labeled dosages?

 

[inforthegains]

So my ultimate takeaway here is that the 10x rule is much more nuanced than I had seen in my original reading, and that it is not just a straight rule that can be applied to every individual cycle for every individual user as a direct judgement of the dosage of their cycle.

Am I completely off base with this?

 

[Wunderpus]

I'm speaking not in the context of tracking personal levels but in the context of using mid-cycle bw TT to validate the dosage of whatever PG or (especially) UGL one is running.

So basically it takes multiple cycles and comparing your mid-cycle TT levels between each cycle to gauge the dosage of each in comparison to their labeled dosages?

I would imagine, yes. I have a baseline that I know good test E/C gives me more or less 7-8x. But, of course there's many variables at play. Such as Ai's, HCG, etc.

I understand your points here, BTW.

 

[Burrr]

10X LAST PIN rule

That rule is all yours man, none of us have ever used that one.
We have all hashed this one out, and looked at lots of mid cycle labs.
The average for guys pinning twice a week is around 7x weekly dose. Some come out higher, some come out lower. There are lots of little variables that will influence the numbers.

I suggest that those who can't wrap their head around the difference between a once a week and a twice a week pin schedule try plugging numbers into steroidplot.com

 

[emcomfu]

I would imagine, yes. I have a baseline that I know good test E/C gives me more or less 7-8x. But, of course there's many variables at play. Such as Ai's, HCG, etc.

I understand your points here, BTW.

And when you say that you get 7-8x you mean for the weekly average correct? Because that's what I get too. Between 7.5-8.5x on weekly average