Dealing with 17-alpha-methylestradiol from dianabol

[brainfrost]

To prevent gyno during a steroid cycle that includes a 20 mg daily dose (dianabol), what should I do? Substances like anastrozole or any other traditional AIs won't affect the synthetic estrogen, because they are designed to target biological estrogen.

I heard tamoxifen is the only option for a dianabol cycle. Basically, I shouldn't be trying to control the 17-alpha-methylestradiol itself, and focus on blocking the estrogenic receptors in the chest instead. That way 17-alpha-methylestradiol won't be able to attach to the receptors and gynecomastia won't develop.

So, for a cycle that includes 400 mg T a week and 20 mg dianabol a day, if that amount of testosterone doesn't elevate my estrogen levels through aromatization, basically I don't have to take anything else except tamofixen to block the 17-alpha-methylestradiol. Correct?

My aromatization rates are low, so exogenous testosterone (up to 400 mg) doesn't cause a significant elevation of estrogen. In this case, my only fear is the synthetic estrogen from dianabol, because that estrogen is way more potent that the biological estrogen.

 

[jJjburton]

To prevent gyno during a steroid cycle that includes a 20 mg daily dose (dianabol), what should I do? Substances like anastrozole or any other traditional AIs won't affect the synthetic estrogen, because they are designed to target biological estrogen.

I heard tamoxifen is the only option for a dianabol cycle. Basically, I shouldn't be trying to control the 17-alpha-methylestradiol itself, and focus on blocking the estrogenic receptors in the chest instead. That way 17-alpha-methylestradiol won't be able to attach to the receptors and gynecomastia won't develop.

So, for a cycle that includes 400 mg T a week and 20 mg dianabol a day, if that amount of testosterone doesn't elevate my estrogen levels through aromatization, basically I don't have to take anything else except tamofixen to block the 17-alpha-methylestradiol. Correct?

My aromatization rates are low, so exogenous testosterone (up to 400 mg) doesn't cause a significant elevation of estrogen. In this case, my only fear is the synthetic estrogen from dianabol, because that estrogen is way more potent that the biological estrogen.

Just use other options that wont cause this issue

20 mg dbol is already low, and you have to take dbol 4x a day for steady blood levels, 5 mg every 4-6 hours. So even lower dose

 

[Jin23]

Substances like anastrozole or any other traditional AIs won't affect the synthetic estrogen, because they are designed to target biological estrogen.

Which enzyme do you think converts dbol to it's estrogen form and which enzyme do you think Ai's target?

Judging by your simple misconceptions (no pun intended) it sounds like you are on your first cycle? and would thus recommend you use only test. If anything, don't add to the cycle a particularly estrogenic compound as dbol, it will only complicate things for you and no, you don't know what you're doing yet.

 

[GreenAmine]

Which enzyme do you think converts dbol to it's estrogen form and which enzyme do you think Ai's target?

Judging by your simple misconceptions (no pun intended) it sounds like you are on your first cycle? and would thus recommend you use only test. If anything, don't add to the cycle a particularly estrogenic compound as dbol, it will only complicate things for you and no, you don't know what you're doing yet.

This is the same guy who thought leukocytes attack testosterone. Don't waste your time.

 

[brainfrost]

Which enzyme do you think converts dbol to it's estrogen form and which enzyme do you think Ai's target?

Judging by your simple misconceptions (no pun intended) it sounds like you are on your first cycle? and would thus recommend you use only test. If anything, don't add to the cycle a particularly estrogenic compound as dbol, it will only complicate things for you and no, you don't know what you're doing yet.

I'm already on testosterone only, the current dose is 200 mg a week, and I want to make it 400 mg and then add another compound.

As for your first paragraph, is it aromatase enzymes? If yes, that's still a problem for me, I think.

In my case, there will be estradiol produced from the testosterone I use, and 17-alpha-methylestradiol from dianabol. My testosterone aromatization rate is low, meaning that from a 400 mg dose, my estradiol won't be high. Now, if I get a high level of 17-alpha-methylestradiol and then use anastrozole to suppress it, this will also suppress my estrogen/estradiol level, which is already within normal range, meaning the level will be crashed. Using AIs when e/e2 is within normal range will crash the level. Is this the case?

And if 20 mg a day (dianabol) is not that high to cause a significant elevation of estrogenic activity, can I just use 40 mg tamoxifen a day to block the estrogenic receptors in the chest and make them unavailable for the synthetic estradiol, without also using AIs?

And yes, you are correct this will be my first cycle. I have never used gear except a 200 mg weekly TRT dose.

 

[Juicedhead]

You can use arimidex or a serm if youre worried about gyno.

 

[BigTomJ]

Which enzyme do you think converts dbol to it's estrogen form and which enzyme do you think Ai's target?

Judging by your simple misconceptions (no pun intended) it sounds like you are on your first cycle? and would thus recommend you use only test. If anything, don't add to the cycle a particularly estrogenic compound as dbol, it will only complicate things for you and no, you don't know what you're doing yet.

Came here to say this.

Dude is majorly lacking in fundamental understanding.

 

[Jin23]

I'm already on testosterone only, the current dose is 200 mg a week, and I want to make it 400 mg and then add another compound.

As for your first paragraph, is it aromatase enzymes? If yes, that's still a problem for me, I think.

In my case, there will be estradiol produced from the testosterone I use, and 17-alpha-methylestradiol from dianabol. My testosterone aromatization rate is low, meaning that from a 400 mg dose, my estradiol won't be high. Now, if I get a high level of 17-alpha-methylestradiol and then use anastrozole to suppress it, this will also suppress my estrogen/estradiol level, which is already within normal range, meaning the level will be crashed. Using AIs when e/e2 is within normal range will crash the level. Is this the case?

And if 20 mg a day (dianabol) is not that high to cause a significant elevation of estrogenic activity, can I just use 40 mg tamoxifen a day to block the estrogenic receptors in the chest and make them unavailable for the synthetic estradiol, without also using AIs?

And yes, you are correct this will be my first cycle. I have never used gear except a 200 mg weekly TRT dose.

1. The methyl e2 does fullfil the same job as normal e2 does. A 20mg dose of dbol is more e2 then one needs in all by it self, yet alone the e2 from testosterone which is already in your system.

2. Seeing as you've never run 400 mg's of testosterone, you can't really speak off how much e2 you will convert. You'll have a lot more free testosterone on 400mg's vs 200. You will most probably want an Ai just for the testosterone, yet alone dbol.

3. Your shbg will be much lower on 400mg's which means there will also be more free estrogen. E2 of 45 pg/dl with shbg of 50 is not the same as e2 of 45 with shbg at 20, yet alone e2 of 80 or above and shbg of 20 or bellow.

4. Keep in mind, high e2 isn't bad only for gyno. You want e2 controlled and not let it ride up until you "subjectively" notice some effects. A) there is a shit tone of effects you can't subjectively note and b) the ones you could, you are simply not adapt enough to notice yet as you are doing this for the first time.

5. Don't use tamox. It's a fairly bad drug to be on long term if you don't need to.

Just do yourself a favour, bring your TT up 2500 ng/dl and let that be your cycle. See how you respond in all aspects (mental and physical). I see however that you are already on fairly high dose of 200 mg's which is most certainly already a cycle (blast) dose so I'm not quite sure what you are doing here, but if those 200mg's already put you around 1500 - 2000, then I'd say go to around 3000 and then drop down to actual trt when you're done.

 

[brainfrost]

Just do yourself a favour, bring your TT up 2500 ng/dl and let that be your cycle. See how you respond in all aspects (mental and physical). I see however that you are already on fairly high dose of 200 mg's which is most certainly already a cycle (blast) dose so I'm not quite sure what you are doing here, but if those 200mg's already put you around 1500 - 2000, then I'd say go to around 3000 and then drop down to actual trt when you're done.

The current 200 mg a week don't cause any side effects at all... it's almost as if the product is fake and has no active ingredient. I bought it from a MESO-RX sponsor so I hope it's legit.

The only additional compound I currently take is tamoxifen for preemptive purposes in regards of gyno just in case aromatization happens to be high. I will be doing a blood test in a few days to check what's happening. But for now, there is a complete lack of any side effects at all. That's why I think my aromatization rate is low and I can use high doses without AIs.

I think my current T from 200 mg is at 1,100 to 1,400 ng/dL. If I don't aromatize significantly at such levels, can I go to 3k ng/dL still without using AIs, only tamoxifen, or is aromatization significant at such levels?

 

[Jin23]

The current 200 mg a week don't cause any side effects at all... it's almost as if the product is fake and has no active ingredient. I bought it from a MESO-RX sponsor so I hope it's legit.

The only additional compound I currently take is tamoxifen for preemptive purposes in regards of gyno just in case aromatization happens to be high. I will be doing a blood test in a few days to check what's happening. But for now, there is a complete lack of any side effects at all. That's why I think my aromatization rate is low and I can use high doses without AIs.

I think my current T from 200 mg is at 1,100 to 1,400 ng/dL. If I don't aromatize significantly at such levels, can I go to 3k ng/dL still without using AIs, only tamoxifen, or is aromatization significant at such levels?

Oh, so you actually haven't done any bloods and you're just taking tamox for the sake of it. Bro ...

Why do you think tamox is safer then Ai's? It isn't.

Also, if you think your e2 is fine, then why take tamox? Again, it's not a drug you just take if you really don't need to.

Reread my previous reply and I suggest some additional research on your part

 

[Revenante]

buonasera, posso dire la mia? il tamoxifene rilascia dei metabolici di scarto che sono tossici Sono usciti degli studi in merito a questo. cento volte migliore il raloxifene

 

[brainfrost]

Oh, so you actually haven't done any bloods and you're just taking tamox for the sake of it. Bro ...

Why do you think tamox is safer then Ai's? It isn't.

Also, if you think your e2 is fine, then why take tamox? Again, it's not a drug you just take if you really don't need to.

Reread my previous reply and I suggest some additional research on your part

I haven't done any blood tests yet. I know gynecomastia can happen even if estrogen is just a little bit over the normal range, which is why I'm taking tamoxifen instead of AIs. I don't think aromatase inhibitors should be used in case estrogen is at upper end of normal range or just a little bit over it, because these substances can crash the estrogen level if the level isn't really high. AIs are very potent.

If my estrogen level is at upper end or just a little bit over it, I prefer to be that way and just use SERMs to block the estrogen receptors in the chest. An estrogen level that is just a little bit over the normal range wouldn't cause damage.

And 200 mg T a week isn't really high enough to cause a significant elevation of estrogen.

As for the blood tests, I will do them next week.

 

[phenominal34]

I haven't done any blood tests yet. I know gynecomastia can happen even if estrogen is just a little bit over the normal range, which is why I'm taking tamoxifen instead of AIs. I don't think aromatase inhibitors should be used in case estrogen is at upper end of normal range or just a little bit over it, because these substances can crash the estrogen level if the level isn't really high. AIs are very potent.

If my estrogen level is at upper end or just a little bit over it, I prefer to be that way and just use SERMs to block the estrogen receptors in the chest. An estrogen level that is just a little bit over the normal range wouldn't cause damage.

And 200 mg T a week isn't really high enough to cause a significant elevation of estrogen.

As for the blood tests, I will do them next week.

You haven’t done any blood test yet but you’re also guessing where you think your total T is above … ?!

Aren’t you the same guy that doesn’t want to pin IM because you will inject “into” a nerve ?


Wait … that’s rite your the guy less than a day ago who was gonna run winny and deca ??

I can’t keep up lol

 

[xrayphoton13]

You could always swap the test for deca/NPP. Since it aromatizes much less than test you wouldn't have to worry about gyno. It's not a very popular cycle but some people swear by deca/dbol. You get enough aromatization from both compounds to be in a more normal e2 range and since there's no test you don't get the deca dick sides

 

[Jin23]

I haven't done any blood tests yet. I know gynecomastia can happen even if estrogen is just a little bit over the normal range, which is why I'm taking tamoxifen instead of AIs. I don't think aromatase inhibitors should be used in case estrogen is at upper end of normal range or just a little bit over it, because these substances can crash the estrogen level if the level isn't really high. AIs are very potent.

If my estrogen level is at upper end or just a little bit over it, I prefer to be that way and just use SERMs to block the estrogen receptors in the chest. An estrogen level that is just a little bit over the normal range wouldn't cause damage.

And 200 mg T a week isn't really high enough to cause a significant elevation of estrogen.

As for the blood tests, I will do them next week.

Oh well, ... I was warned ...

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Is this @G0ld? Lol

 

[jJjburton]

I haven't done any blood tests yet. I know gynecomastia can happen even if estrogen is just a little bit over the normal range, which is why I'm taking tamoxifen instead of AIs. I don't think aromatase inhibitors should be used in case estrogen is at upper end of normal range or just a little bit over it, because these substances can crash the estrogen level if the level isn't really high. AIs are very potent.

If my estrogen level is at upper end or just a little bit over it, I prefer to be that way and just use SERMs to block the estrogen receptors in the chest. An estrogen level that is just a little bit over the normal range wouldn't cause damage.

And 200 mg T a week isn't really high enough to cause a significant elevation of estrogen.

As for the blood tests, I will do them next week.

Why ask questions, get answers from somone who is knowledgable and took the time to answer, then totally not even consider the input they wrote? You clearly have your mind set.

 

[BigTomJ]

I haven't done any blood tests yet. I know gynecomastia can happen even if estrogen is just a little bit over the normal range, which is why I'm taking tamoxifen instead of AIs. I don't think aromatase inhibitors should be used in case estrogen is at upper end of normal range or just a little bit over it, because these substances can crash the estrogen level if the level isn't really high. AIs are very potent.

If my estrogen level is at upper end or just a little bit over it, I prefer to be that way and just use SERMs to block the estrogen receptors in the chest. An estrogen level that is just a little bit over the normal range wouldn't cause damage.

And 200 mg T a week isn't really high enough to cause a significant elevation of estrogen.

As for the blood tests, I will do them next week.

@Jin23 he knows better than you, can't you tell?

 

[Jin23]

Is this @G0ld? Lol

I thought the same thing as I was writing my reply, which I deleted and just wrote one sentence in the end. Same know it all, I don't listen to anybody but myself attitude and the same obsession with gyno. Only this time he has learned from previous mistakes and is remaining quite, not engaging in any back and forth. This is most certainly him.

 

[mindgame1516]

I haven't done any blood tests yet. I know gynecomastia can happen even if estrogen is just a little bit over the normal range, which is why I'm taking tamoxifen instead of AIs. I don't think aromatase inhibitors should be used in case estrogen is at upper end of normal range or just a little bit over it, because these substances can crash the estrogen level if the level isn't really high. AIs are very potent.

If my estrogen level is at upper end or just a little bit over it, I prefer to be that way and just use SERMs to block the estrogen receptors in the chest. An estrogen level that is just a little bit over the normal range wouldn't cause damage.

And 200 mg T a week isn't really high enough to cause a significant elevation of estrogen.

As for the blood tests, I will do them next week.

Where did you come to conclusion that 200mg I sent enough to in increase your estrogen and have 0 lab work so you have no clue where you sit. There plenty of guys that need .25-.5 adex with 200mg trt and there’s also plenty of guys that don’t need it. It’s strictly dependent on your body and you won’t know until you get bloods