At what testosterone doses can you go without aromatase inhibitors?

[TomGlass]

i am on 1000mg/week test p and 700 drosta p without ai. no problem.

What will you use if you come off

 

[Klimmzugernie]

What will you use if you come off

I dont come off. Just up and down the dosage.

Thanks for your input. Wouldn't I still need an ai if I were to come off.

No. You need high Estradiol in the negative feedback loop to re-activate the endogene production. You need a serm which blocks the estradiol receptor in your breast tissue...

 

[Jabroni_Meathead]

I have been running 100mg x3 a week and HCG at 500 x3 a week.

My total t was over 2000 and my estradial was 76. My hematocrit was better on 300mg of driada test cyp than 180mg of real deal pharmacy test cyp from walgreens.

 

[standingtall]

Why the hell did I bother reading this thread?? I feel cheated somehow. Lessened.

 

[Type-IIx]

Random but just for clarification - "500 mg q.w." I'm assuming means "500 mg quartered per week" split between 4 doses a week (125/125/125/125)

No, q.w. means quaque week (weekly).

 

[Type-IIx]

I dont come off. Just up and down the dosage.


No. You need high Estradiol in the negative feedback loop to re-activate the endogene production. You need a serm which blocks the estradiol receptor in your breast tissue...

E2 binds to hypothalamo-pituitary (i.e., brain) ER, where it serves to negative regulate (i.e., block) T synthesis & secretion (and LH & FSH). It is only counterproductive to endogenous production of T.

SERMs modulate (i.e, selectively block) those ER (and other ER, e.g., breast, in a tissue-dependent manner).

Those are important clarifying points that I hope you find helpful.

 

[Klimmzugernie]

E2 binds to hypothalamo-pituitary (i.e., brain) ER, where it serves to negative regulate (i.e., block) T synthesis & secretion (and LH & FSH). It is only counterproductive to endogenous production of T.

SERMs modulate (i.e, selectively block) those ER (and other ER, e.g., breast, in a tissue-dependent manner).

Those are important clarifying points that I hope you find helpful.

I assume that you are referring to studies on the symptoms, diagnosis and treatment of hypogonadism?

Are you sure that this also applies within a PCT? With the aim of restoring the body's own testosterone production?

To avoid misunderstandings: stop giving exogenous testosterone (testosterone enentate). Serum concentration of testosterone falls. E2 too.
Testosterone is at 0.
LH/FSH also almost 0.
E2 is where? Not zero but not sky high either (can we agree on that?)
It may be high enough to develop gyno because the androgen levels are not present.
Does it make sense to use an AI now?
Is it beneficial to crash E2 with an AI (which will happen in this phase) to better stimulate endogenous testosterone production?
Because the body notices that all sex hormones are at 0, I have to do something.
Or is it more advantageous to leave E2 as it is so that the body notices that there is an imbalance and therefore starts to build testosterone more quickly.

My reasoning comes from the fact that I believe that studies regarding hypogonadism present a somewhat different situation than is the case when one has impaired testosterone production due to exogenous administration.

I really don't want to be clever, I mean this as an honest question.

 

[goopjuice]

No, q.w. means quaque week (weekly).

Thanks for teaching me some Latin today - I chose Ancient Greek in university.

Also thanks for clarification, I’m trying to study some of your research and ideas and don’t want to misinterpret anything.

 

[Werewolf Piss]

This is a good example of you being a smart ass combined with a noob. You wont get osteoporosis if you chrash your estrogen for a week, or even months for that matter. What you will get though is issue with immune system, issues with the HPA system which ties to anxiety, sleep, BG regulation, lipids, even ties to your PFC executive functions, etc. All of this factors, plus many more, are what's actually going to give you issues if you crash your estrogen and not freaking osteoporosis.

Tell me, since you're so educated;

- how is estrogen tied to vasopressin release and function in the HPA axis and what is the most obvious issue which arises from this interplay when estrogen is low?
- and since we're on the topic of vasopressin, ... how does it relate to the RAAS but also, how does testosterone interact with it?
- how does vasopressin modulate sleep?
- why does low estrogen do to body water ballance?
- how does estrogen modulate the immune system?
- what role's does estrogen play in brain health? most notably, which system does it effect that helps to "keep the brain clean"?
- why is low estrogen anxiogenic (interested also on it's effects on steroidogenesis related to anxiety)
- how does estrogen effect synovial fluid?
- how does crashed estrogen effect ER receptor function and expression?

I'm keeping the questions light and general, so as to give you a chance at googling or gptjing.

I don't know any of these answers. Um...False?

 

[Thegodofwar]

Dude, are you ever going to inject yourself? Do you need your mommy to wipe your ass before she injects you?

Inject yourself, wait a month, get blood work and if your Estradiol is out of whack or your little nipply wipplys start getting sensitive consider an AI. Otherwise you're fine.

Or use some primo or masteron if you are don’t want to use an AI

 

[Spideog]

-water retention
-sock marks
-sexual problems (worse erection, ED, hard to get orgasm)
-heavy back pump
-puffy, itchy nipples If e2 is ways to high

I would always recommend to add drostanolone instead of an ai if you start recognizing some of the symptoms above.

What’s the issue with AI? I have no issue with 0.5mg Adex twice weekly on 500mg test. Does the job just fine.

 

[Klimmzugernie]

Why taking so much testosterone to require an AI?
Why not being smarter with other compound's and no need for an AI?

If it works for you - great. Every time I take an AI I feel bad the next day. Flat, bad mood, water under the skin.
After 48 h everything is fine and then it starts again when I take it.

I tried several protocols from very low dose 1/8 of exemestane e2d to 1/4 e4d et cetera and everytime the same.

I never crashed estradiol but it feels like.

Maybe I should try aromasin...

But in the end I keep testosterone as low as I get no estradiol problems and use more other compound's. That's working very good for me and I look mich better than using high testosterone with an AI.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Why taking so much testosterone to require an AI?

I have a friend who is 6'5. 240 lbs. lean. he needs an AI on anything more than Test C 180 a week. His gyno flares up. Blows my mind.


I put him on 200 test U weekly, his gyno issues went away. but still... 180 a week of Test C... holy shit

 

[Klimmzugernie]

I have a friend who is 6'5. 240 lbs. lean. he needs an AI on anything more than Test C 180 a week. His gyno flares up. Blows my mind.


I put him on 200 test U weekly, his gyno issues went away. but still... 180 a week of Test C... holy shit

I am more sensitive to ED when e2 becomes unfavourable for me. Sucks as well.

Maybe your friend should remove the breast tissue and everything is ok.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I am more sensitive to ED when e2 becomes unfavourable for me. Sucks as well.

Maybe your friend should remove the breast tissue and everything is ok.

Thats what I said, probably spent that much in Tamoxifen before meeting me.

 

[lukiss96]

I have a friend who is 6'5. 240 lbs. lean. he needs an AI on anything more than Test C 180 a week. His gyno flares up. Blows my mind.


I put him on 200 test U weekly, his gyno issues went away. but still... 180 a week of Test C... holy shit

Okay, so his estrogen is actually better on 200TU compared to 180TC?

I guess for me it's the other way around. My estrogen is better controlled on cypionate/enanthate.

 

[Eddie.]

I put him on 200 test U weekly, his gyno issues went away. but still... 180 a week of Test C... holy shit

It makes sense. Longer esters have less of a spike, so less peak-less test and estrogen conversion. This could be the only explanation because 200 TU yields the same amount of actual testosteron with 180 TC.